C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions here!
 

Rules. Regulations. Playtesting. Designing.

All this stuff can look a little intimidating to outsiders. But the truth is, C3G needs you to survive!

You are the reason C3G exists, to give you a fun and exciting Superhero Heroscape Experience!

You are welcome and encouraged to participate in the C3G community!

You can help create awesome customs!

You can post any of your questions here! This is a no-judgement zone, where you can ask any question about C3G that pops into your head, and we will do our best to answer it for you!

Rules questions? Mini questions? Playtesting questions? Any and all questions are welcomed here!

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column:
 

Reserved

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Basically, this is a good spot for all the :horsepoo:

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I would like to know why http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/misc/smileys/sirg.gif signs on at 3am-4am everyday. Is he getting up or settling down? :reapershrug:

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Well, hopefully it's not to :tcglkn:

EDIT: Dang it! I was hoping that was a real smiley!

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I am working on that. ;)

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Isn't Sir G west coast? If so, your 3 a.m. is his Midnight.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Where did you find that awful smiley for me? It would be a lot less suggestive if we could edit the text off of it.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Fixed. ;)

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

:lol:

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I have teenagers and stay up to make sure they get home OK.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Cool. Thanks for sharing. :)

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Hi! This is my first post here, and I'd like to thank the C3G team for creating such a great game!

I have a question, though - mostly about Puppet Master's Reactive Mind Control, but it also touches on other D20 'evasion' abilities, so I'm posting it here instead of PM's book.

I've been using Puppet Master quite a bit lately, and something's come up. When exactly does Reactive Mind Control trigger? In PM's Book Griffin mentions that area of effect attacks 'have some value' against PM. Does this mean that RMC does not activate when PM is attacked in this way (say, when Harley throws a Smilex and PM isn't on the targeted hex, but is caught in the blast) ?

This is where I run into a problem! Spidey-Sense (official) has wording that is almost identical to RMC - if [figure] is attacked and at least one skull is rolled... etc. So, if Smilex Bomb doesn't trigger RMC, it also doesn't trigger Spidey-Sense (and Spider-Sense, and Radar Sense, etc) ? Can Black Canary and Cyclops etc. really bypass these defensive abilities?

If, however, it does trigger both these powers (which is how I've always played Spider-Man, though it could well be wrong!), then what happens to the other affected figures if RMC takes hold? Does PM escape damage and others caught in the blast take damage, or does it stop the entire attack (and if it does so to Harley's Smilex, does that then count as being used)?

Also, can I ask how RMC affects Event Heroes?

Many thanks, and keep up the amazing work!

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Area effects like Harley's bomb or Punisher's Shotgun can bypass RMC when they attack an adacent figure to Puppet Master, because they are not targeting and attacking Puppet Master directly. The official game does not allow figures to attack themselves. So, if a figure is AFFECTED by its own special attack, it is clear that being Affected is different than being attacked, even though the result could be the same.

Correct.
Yes.

Great question. It doesn't work on them at all. Even though it isn't all that clear in the wording, it doesn't work on Event Heroes because they cannot be mind controlled in any way, and the theme behind this power is that he is stopping the attack, avoiding any damage, taking over the figure's mind to move it away.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

EDIT: Dang I really need to remember to preview so I can avoid being ninja'd.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

You can still edit. ;-)

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Good idea. :lol:

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I'm not sure I buy that. Thematically accurate but mechanically I can't imagine any reason that an Event Hero wouldn't be affected.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I am sorry you don't "buy" it, whatever that means. Like I said, it isn't worded well enough for anyone to argue my point, but my point remains, that our intention was for the power to ONLY work on figures that PM could actually reactive MIND CONTROL, which is why we added the line about mental shield. Well seeing as how all Event Heroes cannot be "mind controlled" according to their rules, this power is not supposed to work on them.
Now, we can leave it as an FAQ or we can edit the card. I am happy with either.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

"If Puppet Master is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Mental Shield special power, and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die."

If, say, Anti-Monitor is an opponent's figure and he attacks Puppet Master and rolls at least one skull, Reactive Mind Control works, because he doesn't fall into the category of figures with the Mental Shield special power.

The FLAVOR is that Event Heroes have Mental Shield, but they do not have the Mental Shield special power. On the other hand, you may be referring to this portion of the Event Hero rules:

"Players may never take temporary or permanent control of an opponent's Event Hero."

Now, this is the ability that stops a figure from using any sort of mind control power, yes, but Reactive Mind Control does NOT take control of an opponent's figure, any more than Spider-Girl does with her Field Pulse or Magneto does with Magnetic Throw. It's a movement power, not a control power. It affects Event Heroes.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Dude, I know all of that. What you are not getting is "I am a Hero. I helped to create this power. Our intention was that the power would only work in a thematic way against people that PM could in fact mind control." I AM RULING This right now, because I know our intention here was to prevent him from using this power on figures that he can't thematically mind control. And my ruling is thus: Reactive Mind Control does not work on Event Heroes.

Now, you can either live with the ruling, or if you need it, we can edit the wording (because we can do that). I am truly fine with either.

As a note: you should know that the theme behind this power is not that Puppet Master is just somehow "moving" a figure. He is in fact taking over their mind (hence the title with the phrase: mind control) just for a brief moment to save his own skin.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Two things:

Spiderman really gets hit by firelines and such?! I've never played like that! Isamu always gets a chance to dodge an attack, whether it's a grenade aimed at him, or to the side of him... That's really how the official game ruled it?

The only way I can see the theme for reactive mind control working correctly, is to actually give Event Heroes Mental Shield. But who honestly will remember. If you think it's a big deal, I suggest just adding the line "Reactive Mind control does not affect Event Heroes." The theme isn't there, but it works better mechanically.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

1. I am not sure how the official game would have ruled it. I never asked. But I know how we intended it and how we tested it in playtesting and in the scenarios.
2. I agree that it is best to just update the text. We are working on that in the sanctum right now in fact.

Thanks for bringing all this up guys and for your thoughts as well. This conversation actually inspired another point about this power that we are discussing as well.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Of course I'm aware of the intent of the power, but I don't like the idea of passing any sort of ruling based on the concept that "this is what this character should/shouldn't be able to do." To go that way lies madness. If Puppet Master will be updated with "non-Event heroes" or there's some update to the Event Heroes that says "all Event Heroes automatically have the Mental Shield special power," that's fine, but by the books, Reactive Mind Control DOES work on Event Heroes.

Not that I don't respect the ability of the Heroes to re-write those books, but until they're re-written, they're the books I'll play by. :p

(And honestly, Puppet Master never struck me as a "mind control" kind of guy... from what I've seen and read he just controls a person's body, not their mind. Though I suppose it's a few months late to point that out!)

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

We are working on changing the cards right now. However, if we want to rule an FAQ to go in one direction, even if the card's text, "the book", doesn't support it, we can. We control the horizontal and the lateral here. Just like Death Reavers got an errata, we can give Puppet Master one as well.

I know what you are saying about his true powers. He is supposed to only be able to manipulate body movements and control that completely, however, he has been written very inconsistently over time, and on numerous times, I have seen his controlled subjects' bodies and minds under his control. I am guessing that because the mind is part of the body, he can sometimes control that. It has also been hinted at and it is unrevealed that he could possibly have some type of low level psionic power that helps him use the radioactive clay.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Also as far as game mechanics go, control of the body=control of the mind. It has to be equal because there is no real way to make the two different without an involved rule which is something that is not needed and probably not wanted by the majority.

Griff, if you guys aren't already doing this, can we get an addition to the Event Hero special rule stateing that all Event Heroes have the Mental Shield special power please. I think in the long run, having that will take care of most of these sort of problems.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I just checked both Mental Shield on Magneto's card and the Event Hero's rules, and the following (comparable) line is included in both:

So it seems that Event Heroes already have Mental Shield.

However, Puppet Master's power allows him to move the attacking figure. It's not saying that Puppet Master is taking control of it. I wouldn't have interpreted both instances to be the same.

Edit: Oh, maybe you want Mental Shield specifically mentioned in the Event Heroes to make referencing the ability in other powers easier. :oops:

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Very interesting stuff, guys. Thanks for bringing all of this up.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

No that it isn't necessary. What we are gonna do though, is edit the PM text so that Event Heroes are immune, and we are gonna do it in a way that we feel is very responsible. Basically, by stating that Puppet Master's player (you) takes control of the attacking figure, something we should have done to begin with.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

That works for the Puppet Master problem, but putting it in the Event Hero rules would prevent it from being a problem with any other powers. It's your call though so what ever you guys feel is the best way to handle this in the future is the way it will go.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

All this discussion is telling me that Mr. Mxy should be your go-to counterdraft to Puppet Master... ;)

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

No. We are ALWAYS gonna use the exact same wording convention on powers that "take control" of other figures. Are you just not getting it or what?

EVENT HERO SPECIAL RULE:
When selecting cards to put in your Army, you cannot select two of the same Event Army Card. Event Heroes are never destroyed without first taking enough wounds to be destroyed. If a terrain rule or a special power on any Army Card, Glyph, or Destructible Object would automatically destroy an Event Hero, that terrain rule or special power instead inflicts 4 wounds on that Event Hero. Players may never take temporary or permanent control of an opponent's Event Hero.

So if a power (like Reactive Mind Control) specifies to take temporary control of a figure, that makes Event Heroes exempt.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Yep. This used to be a "take control of" power in theme only. Now we're altering the mechanics to be appropriate for that theme. Good change here, team!

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

That makes Puppet Master a little more manageable! He's been really dominant so far... I'm with Margloth - Mr. Mxy looks a good choice to counter (and he's the only Event Hero I have at the moment!).

I think C3G and Classic must be ruling the whole fireline\explosion\Abomination Stomp etc vs Spider Sense\Radar Sense\Evasive Strike etc differently (due to this post I chanced on in the Book of Pelloth).

Wow - it's going to be a big change to play it the C3G way, and a big power-shift for some characters. Cyclops gets a heck of a boost here (for me, anyway) - he just brushes these powers aside!

Thanks for answering my questions, guys!

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Honestly, I've always played it the way Killercactus does. Powers like Optic Blast get around something like Intangible because he targets spaces instead of figures, but I've always rolled for Spidey-Sense and powers like it before rolling defense dice, whatever the reason might be I was rolling defense dice. I hadn't heard of Griff's way of doing it until his post in this thread.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

In that case, could I get a clarified ruling on Optic Blast etc vs Spider-Sense etc?

Thanks!

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I don't know. I am pretty sure the official game would likely rule that "affected figures are also being attacked", but one of the things that balanced Puppet Master out for me was to use area affects as a way to bypass Reactive Mind Control. :reapershrug:

~ Griffin, who is sick today and needs someone else to be the Rules whisperer

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

So the question is, are affected units also being attacked? I'm really not sure, I'm leaning towards no but I am not sure.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I'm pretty sure the official ruling is affected is not the same as attacked.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I think we should ask for a ruling from the official guys. Just sub in Fireline and Isamu's Vanish 9 or something like that. :-)

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I PMed Rÿchean.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

And here's his answer!

It seems the big difference is that the Mohicans reference being "targeted". And it looks like Puppet Master has the "targeted" language.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Nice, quozl!

(And I shoulda known my guess was wrong! :razz: )

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Yeah, didn't realize that "targeted" language was there - that makes all the difference on Puppet Master. :-)

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

Ah. I only printed my PM card out a couple of months back, and it doesn't have the 'targeted' language on it. I imagine this issue must have come up before, then!

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I added the targeting language in a couple of days ago as I was rewriting the text for the power to match the intention and how it has been played by us. A3n updated it yesterday.

So, to go back the ruling now:

Q - Can Puppet Master use his Reactive Mind Control on Event Heroes?
A - No, because the aspect of taking temporary control of the attacking figure is not optional - it does happen if you roll the D20 and land the needed number. So because Event Heroes cannot be controlled temporarily or permanently by opponents, This power does not work on them.

Q - Can Puppet Master use his Reactive Mind Control against attacking figure that are using an area effect attack but did not actually target Puppet Master?
A - No, because Reactive Mind Control states that Puppet Master has to be the targeted figure for the attack.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

That's a bit convoluted. I like this better:

Q - Can Puppet Master use his Reactive Mind Control on Event Heroes?
A - No, because Event Heroes cannot be controlled temporarily or permanently by opponents.

Re: C3G Question Dump / Advice Column: Ask your questions he
 

I just checked this thread again and noticed that no clarification has been added yet to Puppet Master's book.