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-   -   The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55039)

quozl August 27th, 2019 10:15 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Looks good to me. Maybe we should get someone who hasn't played with vehicles before to read them and try them out and let us know if we missed anything.

IAmBatman August 27th, 2019 10:21 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Hmm ... @johnny139 maybe?

johnny139 August 28th, 2019 08:14 AM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Noted. :up: Will try to take a look at them soon.

tcglkn August 28th, 2019 10:14 AM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Looked good to me in my read over of the rules. Only thing I wasn't clear on is the benefit of drafting them, does it just mean they start in your start zone? I assume your opponent can still use the vehicle if you leave it.

IAmBatman August 28th, 2019 10:42 AM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Your opponent can still control it if they can get you out, yes.

The benefits are you can choose to bring them to the game, build your army around their use, and start them in your start zone, yes.

But to control them you have to have an occupying figure.

tcglkn August 28th, 2019 10:59 AM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
That's what I assumed. Unsure if we want to make that more explicitly clear that your opponent can use it if you leave it. I know it says it's only in your control in you have a figure in it so maybe that's enough and we just want to FAQ it.

IAmBatman August 28th, 2019 11:05 AM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
The rules of how to control it are pretty spelled out, IMO. But, yeah, cool with an FAQ.

johnny139 August 28th, 2019 10:28 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
A few thoughts:

In general, stuff like Player and Army are capitalized a lot, and I don't think they usually are.

DRAFTING VEHICLES
- Do the rules allow for Common VDOs? If so, we should probably note them alongside Uncommon VDOs.
- Are those three bullet points really it for differences? I feel like there's gotta be more to it...

ENTERING VEHICLES
- That "specific entrances/exits" stuff is really hard to wrap my head around. Do we have any examples in mind? Can we like... put a diagram together? Same with putting figures on spaces within the vehicles... I have no idea what any of that means.

OCCUPYING VEHICLES
- Figures in a vehicle being adjacent to that vehicle may have some wonkiness, but I assume that's been tested or considered.

PARTIAL COVER AND FULL COVER
- Clear sight only being established from target points on the hitzone, which only shows a one-dimensional view of a vehicle, seems like something that's going to be problematic and subject to rules lawyering. Like the "capes block line of sight" stuff with normal hitzones.

MOVING VEHICLES
- Move number, not Move Number. No capital N.

EXITING VEHICLES
- Even units not taking a turn can exit the vehicle? That seems like it might be abusable.
- Should probably put an "or" in the parenthetical in paragraph 2.

DESTROYING VEHICLES
- I didn't follow the second two paragraphs at all here. Is it redundant or am I missing something? You place the figures in the vehicles, then you roll for damage, then you place them again?

quozl August 28th, 2019 11:03 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
These paragraphs:

Quote:

Some VDOs may have specific entrances/exits marked on the figure itself. In this case the VDO can only be entered or exited from empty spaces within one space of that VDO and in the direction that the entrance/exit is directly facing.

When a figure first enters a VDO, the Player controlling that figure should either place the figure on any unoccupied space within one space of a designated entrance/exit area or, if no such area is designated, they may place the figure on any unoccupied space in the VDO.
I'd get rid of the first one. Do we really want to deal with vehicle doors?

For the second:
Quote:

When a figure first enters a VDO, the Player controlling that figure should either place the figure on any the driver space if it is unoccupied or anywhere else on the VDO card space within one space of a designated entrance/exit area or, if no such area is designated, they may place the figure on any unoccupied space in the VDO.

Yodaking August 29th, 2019 12:55 AM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Yes, the Porta-Potty needs a door/exit space so every figure doesn't turn into Shadowcat and just start walking through walls. If you want to go through the DO, destroy it and remove it from play. They spent months working out all the details of these rules and thinking about every angle, to show up in final editing and start drawing red lines through whole blocks of text is poor form.

IAmBatman August 29th, 2019 08:33 AM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 2309850)
A few thoughts:

In general, stuff like Player and Army are capitalized a lot, and I don't think they usually are.

DRAFTING VEHICLES
- Do the rules allow for Common VDOs? If so, we should probably note them alongside Uncommon VDOs.
- Are those three bullet points really it for differences? I feel like there's gotta be more to it...

I really don't know on the capitalization thing. Could I get this confirmed one way or another by someone else?

1. No commons. VDOs need individual cards for this to work correctly mechanically. So common VDOs that share a card are not workable.

2. That's all I've got! :-) If you can think of anything else, feel free to let us know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 2309850)
ENTERING VEHICLES
- That "specific entrances/exits" stuff is really hard to wrap my head around. Do we have any examples in mind? Can we like... put a diagram together? Same with putting figures on spaces within the vehicles... I have no idea what any of that means.

1. This should be made clear on individual Army Cards for VDOs. It's not something I'm able to diagram in rules text, obviously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 2309850)
OCCUPYING VEHICLES
- Figures in a vehicle being adjacent to that vehicle may have some wonkiness, but I assume that's been tested or considered.

1. Certainly none has come up thus far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 2309850)
PARTIAL COVER AND FULL COVER
- Clear sight only being established from target points on the hitzone, which only shows a one-dimensional view of a vehicle, seems like something that's going to be problematic and subject to rules lawyering. Like the "capes block line of sight" stuff with normal hitzones.

1. I think it's fairly intuitive in practice. You can shoot in or out of windows, basically and those will be green on the hitzone. No figures in the game have three dimensional hitzones, but we've figured it out thus far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 2309850)
MOVING VEHICLES
- Move number, not Move Number. No capital N.

EXITING VEHICLES
- Even units not taking a turn can exit the vehicle? That seems like it might be abusable.
- Should probably put an "or" in the parenthetical in paragraph 2.

1. I'll edit the capitalization/wording stuff here in a bit and post when I have.

2. If it's abusable, no one has been able to demonstrate it in testing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 2309850)
DESTROYING VEHICLES
- I didn't follow the second two paragraphs at all here. Is it redundant or am I missing something? You place the figures in the vehicles, then you roll for damage, then you place them again?

1. You're missing something. The first portion is for any figures that are standing on top of a vehicle. Then there's a portion for figures occupying the vehicle.

IAmBatman August 29th, 2019 08:35 AM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2309866)
These paragraphs:

Quote:

Some VDOs may have specific entrances/exits marked on the figure itself. In this case the VDO can only be entered or exited from empty spaces within one space of that VDO and in the direction that the entrance/exit is directly facing.

When a figure first enters a VDO, the Player controlling that figure should either place the figure on any unoccupied space within one space of a designated entrance/exit area or, if no such area is designated, they may place the figure on any unoccupied space in the VDO.
I'd get rid of the first one. Do we really want to deal with vehicle doors?

For the second:
Quote:

When a figure first enters a VDO, the Player controlling that figure should either place the figure on any the driver space if it is unoccupied or anywhere else on the VDO card space within one space of a designated entrance/exit area or, if no such area is designated, they may place the figure on any unoccupied space in the VDO.

1. With some larger vehicles and enclosed structures (or some smaller enclosed structures) where it really matters thematically, yes, we do. We're not doing it for the Sports Car VDO and it will be on a case-by-case basis, but it doesn't hurt to spell it out now since we've already gone through the trouble.

2. I'm personally fine with someone choosing to put a figure into a passenger seat rather than a driver's seat. What if it's Mister Fantastic's turn and he wants Invisible Woman as his passenger and to drive himself, but he has to move her first? That should be something you can do.


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