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-   -   [Pod 0] Pillar of Hár (Crypolith) - Design (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55800)

flameslayer93 May 13th, 2019 11:36 AM

[Pod 0] Pillar of Hár (Crypolith) - Design
The Book of "Crypolith"

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set


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Instead of moving normally, small or medium figures that begin their movement adjacent to a Pillar of Hár may move to the top of that Pillar of Hár. Instead of moving normally, small or medium figures that begin their movement on top of a cryptolith may move to a space adjacent to that Pillar of Hár.

When this Pillar of Hár receives a wound or is destroyed, a figure on top of it must be placed by its controller either on a space adjacent to that Pillar of Hár or the space the Pillar of Hár previously occupied. Roll an attack die. If a skull is rolled, that figure receives a wound. If that figure cannot be placed, it is destroyed.

Special Rules
Only a small or medium figure may be placed on top of a Pillar of Hár.

The figure used for this destructible object is the Crypolith from Arena of the Planeswalkers.

Character Bio:
Spoiler Alert!

-Rulings and Clarifications-
Q: Can a figure fly, teleport, leap, etc onto/off of a Pillar of Hár?
A: Yes, as long as they are a small or medium figure.

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Synergy Benefits Offered

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-


Astroking112 May 13th, 2019 01:42 PM

Re: [AotV] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
Some of the ideas that have been shared for Cryptoliths in the Pre-Brainstorming thread:
  • Porting over the rules from MtG directly, or making them climbable towers that can be destroyed.
  • Giving them a forcefield aura that prevents people from being targeted by ranged normal attacks when within X spaces.
  • Giving them a movement aura that slightly boosts the move of figures that begin their turn within X spaces.
  • Giving them some kind of a negative effect, such as negating figures within X clear sight spaces or subtracting range.
  • Making them teleportation beacons, so when a figure ends its move (or turn) adjacent to one, they can be placed on any empty space adjacent to another.

Of course, I may be missing some, so feel free to add any others.

Pretty much every idea meshes well with the Destructible Object angle, which is good in my opinion. There are some sketchy rules with the implementation of Destructible Objects in HeroScape, but it's a design space that we never truly saw explored outside of the Fortress Door, and now's the perfect opportunity to do that.

Of the ideas that have been proposed so far, my personal favorite is the teleportation beacons. That provides a new and unique tool to mapmakers, matches the clear sci-fi aesthetic of the Cryptoliths, and is very easy to remember (even though each tower will need its own card). My main issue with it is that it could deemphasize the DO aspect, since there will be less reason to destroy the towers if the important figures have already teleported.

Perhaps some kind of simple destruction rule could help by providing some reward beyond decreasing mobility for both armies, such as rolling an unblockable attack die against all adjacent figures when a Cryptolith is destroyed. We have precedent with terrain rules like this with the Lava Terrain, so it could be something to explore if we wanted to go that route.

lefton4ya May 13th, 2019 02:23 PM

Re: [AotV] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
I would prefer if we could mix official Magic:AotP rules with one additional power, and would be against any ruling that does not allow someone to go on top of the cryptolith. I do like a negative aura such as all figures within X spaces reduce Y from [Range/Attack], even within 1 spaces as it would effect figure on top and anyone next to it trying to attack or scale. However the teleport would be fun, maybe teleport from next to or on top of cryptolith to the same of other cryptoliths.

Official Card direct port is already made:

Pumpkin_King May 13th, 2019 03:57 PM

Re: [AotV] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
What’s to stop us from indicating a range of powers and allowing the players to choose?

flameslayer93 May 13th, 2019 04:03 PM

Re: [AotV] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King (Post 2280541)
What’s to stop us from indicating a range of powers and allowing the players to choose?

Nothing. :mrgreen:

Pumpkin_King May 13th, 2019 04:09 PM

Re: [AotV] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
That may be an option then. Putting 3 powers under a subsection on the card and then a header describing that the player may choose one or all powers, or go by the rules in a given scenario.

Astroking112 May 13th, 2019 04:12 PM

Re: [AotV] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
I'm not a fan of climbable Cryptoliths at all, personally. There is some uniqueness inherent in them being a Destructible Object, but there's still a lot of overlap with the normal towers that can be made with Fortress of the Archkyrie. It feels much less unique to me than the other terrain boosters that we've had in the past, and it would be a pity for the first true sci-fi terrain in HeroScape to be like that.

In addition to that overlap, it also boosts a couple of things above others: range, Raelin, and fliers. All of those are typically pretty strong as-is, and I don't think that they really need another set boosting them. Even if there are harsh penalties for being near a tower when it collapses, that won't help much if you're going against a melee army that can't reach the tower in the first place. I'd much rather say that no figures can stand on top of the Cryptoliths.


Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King (Post 2280541)
What’s to stop us from indicating a range of powers and allowing the players to choose?

Simplicity. While we do have the Thaelenk Tundra allowing players to choose whether they use Heavy Snow and Slippery Ice or not, that's very much just an "on" or "off" power. Outside of scenarios, we want to be able to look at any map with Cryptoliths and know what we're getting into, just like with castle pieces, roads, and lava.

It would also make balancing maps with Cryptoliths in them extremely difficult, since the player could freely choose what effect they want from the list. Unless a scenario needs to change the rules for whatever reason, I think that we really should nail the Cryptoliths down to a single consistent gameplay effect.

Pumpkin_King May 13th, 2019 07:28 PM

Re: [AotV] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
Yeah, I think you’re right, when you put it that way. Of the options presented I think we could do range negation? I think that had the most potential for cool plays.

All Your Pie May 14th, 2019 03:47 AM

Re: [AotV] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
I know my stance here is largely not agreed with, but I do feel I should register it in this thread at least once. Weirdly-shaped shiny rocks do not in my mind indicate sci-fi terrain that gives us free reign to make up whatever power we please. Each different type of terrain with an effect in Heroscape is very obviously thematically connected with its mechanics. I’ll grant that a DO, by virtue of having its own card with easy-to-reference rules text, can get away with a bit more. But nothing about the cryptoliths visually reads “anti-range aura” or any kind of aura. (As an aside, while Raelin and range perching is a valid concern for the climbable versions, an anti-range aura corrects way too far in the opposite direction. If the climbable cryptolith is just a gimmicky castle wall, then an anti-range aura is just gimmicky and wildly powerful jungle brush.)

At the end of the day, I know I’m in the minority here so I won’t be inclined to adamantly oppose any kind of aura whatsoever (although I would oppose the anti-range aura.) But nonetheless I do feel the need to register my perspective here.

flameslayer93 May 14th, 2019 10:18 AM

Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
What do you suggest we do with them, AYP? I wouldn’t even be opposed if they weren’t DO’s at all, but simply terrain pieces like the jungle bushes.

NecroBlade May 14th, 2019 11:06 AM

Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
I much prefer adding a new DO to the game than just terrain pieces. That also makes it easier to give them rules (text on a card). One reason I want them climbable is they only provide so much LoS blocking. To that end, I do like the idea of some kind of negation/reduction for figures on and around them. Are they necessarily sci-fi? Maybe not, but they are weird (remind me a bit of reading about the alien structures in the Expanse series [though I'm having trouble getting through book 4 right now, it's just... not good]).

lefton4ya May 14th, 2019 12:09 PM

Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design
As mentioned earlier I really want these climbable (or teleport on top-able) and want a destructible object card. Maybe in the "rules" we include you can make one of the powers optional such as with Fortress Door you could make reinforced defense optional in Scenario or Map, but there should be 1 standard card for the Cryptolith (or whatever we name it). Again my suggestion is was to port Magic:AotP rules as is but add:

[Obscurus]: Figures on top of or [adjacent / within [2] clear sight spaces] of this cryptolith reduce their [range / attack] by [2] when attacking a non-adjacent figure.

Just figure out among the [brackets] what you want. That's just a suggestion.

Another suggestion is instead of Scale have:
[Teleport]: Figures who end their move on a space adjacent to a cryptolith may choose to teleport on top. Figures who start their move on top of a cryptolith at the start of their move may choose to teleport onto a space adjacent to that cryptolith or on top of another cryptolith. Any figure on top of a cryptolith when it is destroyed is placed on the space the cryptolith previously occupied. Check for falling damage. Note: a figure cannot attack a cryptolith while it is on the top space of that cryptolith.

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