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-   -   Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM) (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=26273)

MegaSilver July 31st, 2009 11:24 PM

Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
With her Spear of Gerda, Realin has been protecting all of Jandar's forces for a very long time. When she was called to defeat the Marro Hive, she grew offensive and increased the distance of her Aura. Do you think it was a good idea for her to do that? Which version of Raelin do you think is better?

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...elin_thumb.jpghttp://www.heroscapers.com/community...sotm_thumb.jpg

This debate was submitted by Darkmage7a.

Compare the units by looking at thier:

1. Stats/Special Powers

2. Playability

3. Overall Usefullness

4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head

5. Army Builds

6. Best Strategic Use

Here's the hint for next week's debate: (Please guess.)

Spoiler Alert!


MegaSilver

MegaSilver July 31st, 2009 11:34 PM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
Well, apparently there is another person who asked this some time ago:

Here is the site: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=11182

MegaSilver

StarofEarendil August 1st, 2009 12:03 AM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
Old or new?
1. Statistically, both are exactly the same. However, there is a great difference in special powers. Both have a form of the Defense Aura, but the old Raelin's gave a bonus of two as opposed to the new's bonus of one. However, the new's range is increased. Two defense, though, is much greater than an increase of one defense.
2. In playability, each Raelin fits perfectly in the Master Set they were designed for. The old only needs to sit back and boost the soldiers fighting before her. The new requires more order markers to use her powers such as Whirlwind Attack. But this means that less order markers would go to the squads that are kept alive much better under the old's aura.
3. Overall, the old Raelin is more useful, due to the one more defense she grants. Spider_Poison places old Raelin at a A+ and new Raelin at a B.
4. Head-to-head, whoever got the first strike or had the high ground would have the best chance of beating the other, since they have identical stats.
6. Strategically, the old Raelin works best behind large amounts of squads and strong, ranged heroes like Kaemon Awa and Q9. The new Raelin seems to be designed for fighting along with a small group of heroes and/or squads that can spread out more. Hmm....
would
Spartacus 200/200
Crixus 090/290
Raelin SotM 120/410
x2 Capuans 140/550
work?

GreenLanturn August 1st, 2009 12:44 AM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
I think this is an easy choice.

Old Raelin.

1. Stats: Tie
Advantage: Old Raelin (She cost less)

2. Specials: I'll disregard flying here because they are the same. 2 defense id better than one in all cases, but is the whirlwind attack going to tip the scales? No, if you are attacking with your Cheerleaders you've lost.

Advantage: Raelin 1.0

3. Playability: They both are just supposed to sit there and use as few markers as possible, so their aura is really all that matters. Raelin 1.0 gives the better aura and is cheaper, so naturally she fits in armies better.

Advantage: Grandma Raelin

4. Overall Usefullness: Cheerleaders need good auras. Who had the better one again?

Advantage: Raelin (RotV)

5. Who Would Win Head-To-Head: This is silly, in an 80 point fight the SotM Raelin won't even be on the field. No contest.

Advantage: Raelin (Beetles Style)

6. Army Builds: 1... 2... 3... 4... :duh:

7. Best Strategic Use: Cheerleader

Advantage: Raelin (guess...)

Winner? Raelin, the Kyrie Warrior (Merciful)

Hero Hot Hatch August 1st, 2009 11:44 AM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
It's clear and obvious which one is better. The ROTV is a boosted Raelin. It's more playable because the aura is larger and gives that magic 4 defense dice to many if not most squads. There is really no debate here.

goaliescaper August 1st, 2009 11:57 AM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
As evident in my vote I prefer the rise of the valkyrie raelin for a few reasons:

Lower cost

Stronger aura

Identical stats to many more expensive figures

Being helpful without a single OM

Land-based AE August 1st, 2009 11:58 AM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
Old Raelin

New Raelin is a more multi-purpose figure but the old Raelin is better for what the piece was origionally designed for. Plus, she is less expensive.

MegaSilver August 1st, 2009 03:47 PM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
I am shocked by the extreme margin of votes. 20 to 4 so far!

I voted for the new version of Raelin, since I am mostly an offensive player. I rarely use either version (I know, strange to most players), but when I do, I'll usually go for the new Raelin. As most players will target her, I prefer to have the chance to attack all the enemies that may come to me, as IMO that most players will send squads (I would) to take care of her. The new Raelin could take better care of herself in this event than the old.

Of course she is meant to be a cheerleader, but I prefer versatility in battle, because after all the situation in battle will change often, and I want figures that can best take care of themselves.

MegaSilver

The Wall August 1st, 2009 04:03 PM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
I like the new raelin. You need less order markers to keep figures in range and she has at least a little fight in her.

GreenLanturn August 1st, 2009 04:05 PM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaSilver (Post 884286)
I am shocked by the extreme margin of votes. 20 to 4 so far!

Of course she is meant to be a cheerleader, but I prefer versatility in battle, because after all the situation in battle will change often, and I want figures that can best take care of themselves.

MegaSilver

I'm going to argue that the new Raelin is not more versatile. They have the same stats, so if Raelin is being attacked by anything they both are just as likely to take a fatal hit as the other. The Whirlwind attack should never come into play because Raelin should be surrounded your own figures, so a melee army should never get more than 1 figure to you anyway. If they are using range against Raelin you still won't be able to Whirlwind attack because the range will likely be spread a bit, or it is just to far away to move towards.

I play offensively quite a bit, but I still bring along Raelin (1.0) in many armies. Never once have I felt that drafting her has hindered my ability to move forwards and attack. (Barring melee armies where she shouldn't be drafted anyway.)

The thing about playing either Raelin is that you need an army that can afford to move her, or can sit next to her all game. The former is very rare if not non-existent, and the latter is ranged armies (quite common).

If you are playing a KoW army and expect to move Raelin (either one) up with them every turn, you are slowing an already slow progression of units that desperately need every chance to move closer to their enemy.

The main problem I see with Raelin (new) is that she doesn't bond with anyone. I know this would make her a very broken unit, but if she did bond I think the newer Raelin would have a slightly better chance. Even if they bonded, you still wouldn't want them tied up by other figures. 3 defense is good for a cheerleader, but not for an attack hero (especially when that attack is 3 dice). (I think this is Alistair's one flaw, but thats a new topic.)

All in a good debate. :)

Toad Rocket August 1st, 2009 04:30 PM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
Though I do not really use either one often I would have to say old Raelin is better. If new raelin was closer in cost, maybe 90-100 points then I might go that way. As it is she costs too much for a cheerleader.

NecroBlade August 1st, 2009 04:36 PM

Re: Unit Debate #9 -- Raelin (ROTV) Vs. Raelin (SOTM)
 
1. Stats/Special Powers
Raelin RotV has the better aura in that it provides an extra die. However, I'm an attack sort of player, so I like the extra spaces Raelin SotM gives. Plus, with Whirlwind Assault, she can fight on her own.

Edge: Raelin SotM

2. Playability
With 2/3 the price tag and a stronger aura, Raelin RotV fits into more armies more easily.

Edge: Raelin RotV

3. Overall Usefullness
Raelin RotV is a better defender and cheerleader, but SotM is more versatile.

Edge: Tie

4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head
Neither has powers that affect a 1-on-1 fight and they have the same stats.

Edge: Tie

5. Army Builds
Raelin RotV: Anything that can squeeze 80 points.
Raelin SotM:
120 Raelin SotM
180 Taelord
200 Omnicrons x2

Edge: Raelin RotV

6. Best Strategic Use
Both are best used defensively. Raelin RotV does that better, but SotM can clear herself of squads if need be (not her best use, though).

Edge: Raelin RotV

Winner: Raelin RotV

But I voted for SotM. I'm not a fan of old Raelin, and I like attacking better than defending. So SotM is more fun to play (with and against) for me, as well as being better balanced.


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