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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

JC McMinis July 27th, 2017 11:58 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Just a little language adjaustment on this. I think you should be given the choice to remove the black powder marker. That way if you want to use this against a enemy figure who has friendly figures adjacent to it, you wont be forced to use the explosive effect. Thats why the you may remove it rather than just remove it. Also treid to make the wording a little more official.

SUN SHOT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 8. Attack 2 + Special.
When William Garin attacks with his Savior Arrow Special Attack chose a figure, if there is a black powder marker on his Army Card, you may remove it to affect all figures adjacent to the defending figure. When rolling defense dice, all affected figures subtract one shield from whatever is rolled. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Confred July 27th, 2017 02:12 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Updated wording indeed has the may clause.
For simplicity, the subtracting dice portion has been removed.

Motions to keep subtraction will be heard.

JC McMinis July 27th, 2017 03:05 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I can do without the subtraction myself. Looking at any official card with a similar ability (Airborne elite, Shotgun Sullivan), there is no instance that I saw of mentioned subtracting shields.

Confred July 28th, 2017 10:48 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JC McMinis (Post 2158199)
I can do without the subtraction myself. Looking at any official card with a similar ability (Airborne elite, Shotgun Sullivan), there is no instance that I saw of mentioned subtracting shields.

The closest I can think of offhand are the Knights of Valkril with their Soul Weapons subtracting dice.

The story behind the subtracting shields is in the meta. In the source material, the event hero is adjacent to a unique said that adds automatic shields. The shields are too much, until William's precise shooting and quick thinking bypasses the defense, effectively subtracting the additional shield added.

Confred July 30th, 2017 12:19 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
GET THE BLACK POWDER
Before taking a turn with William Garin, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 4 or lower and Garin has a black powder marker on his Army Card, remove him and all Mercenary figures you control that are adjacent to him from the battlefield. If you roll a 17 or higher, place a black powder marker on this card and roll for Get The Black Powder an additional time.

SUN SHOT SPECIAL ATTACK

Range 8. Attack 3 + Special.
When attacking with William Garin's Sun Shot Special Attack, you may remove a black powder marker from this card. If you do, all figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by the attack.

DEADLY TRICKSHOT
When William Garin rolls attack dice for a normal attack against a figure that isn't adjacent, all skulls rolled count for one additional hit. After the attack, William Garin may attack up to two additional times.

OK I think his powers are in order.

His sidebar is currently
HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
MERCENARY
ADAPTIVE
MEDIUM 5


His statbar is currently
LIFE 4
MOVE 5
RANGE 5
ATTACK 1
DEFENSE 4

POINTS 90

I think his Points need a serious looking at. He may even be as close as 120.

I encourage playtesting .

JC McMinis July 30th, 2017 09:15 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Ok here is a card as is currently printed...also we need to get an official mini for this so I can make the hit zone.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psvdn6rj3n.jpg

Confred July 31st, 2017 12:24 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Playtest 1: Garin vs. Kaemon
Rolled 1 and got scared, but then realized I had not first rolled a 17.
Over extended and Kaemon chewed me up in melee.
Playtest 2: Garin vs. Kaemon
Never rolled 17 or higher.
Learned my lesson and kept distance. Got high ground and first shot was (1+1)*2 skulls vs his 0 shields for the lulz.
- allowed a mulligan; he blocked 3 and took one, second attack whiffed, and killed him on third.
Playtest 3: Garin vs. Kaemon
Never rolled 17 or higher.
Chewed Awa up.

Multiple attacks + height + doubling is nuts.
Clearly melee can pulp him, but he's worth more than 90. 110 Points at least.

rolling d-20 before turns is kinda awkward. I didn't test an alternative though.

TREX July 31st, 2017 11:27 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Interesting card guys, from the looks of it, I'd go with @Confred on the increase in points. In the right setup on height this guys could chew up squads pretty well too. Especially with multiple attacks of double 2's. It looks very fun as well. Have you guys got a figure picked out yet?

JC McMinis July 31st, 2017 06:41 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
no figure as of yet @TREX . But if worse comes to worse I figure we could use Brandis Skyhunter

Confred August 1st, 2017 09:19 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
A fully optimized Garin is well over 200 Points.
From the wall, he potentially deals 18 damage.
(Kinda makes special attack silly)
Now, before we try to nerf him, in the source, he is a one-man massacre force, killing foes with each stroke that whole squads had trouble with - so his power level is actually on point.
We just need to get the "points" right.
I say we start at 140 and test from there.

In my four games played, the drawback didn't trigger once. That's the thing, however, that keeps his points down. You could very well lose him turn one.

Zetsubo August 1st, 2017 11:58 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm back from vacation so I can get back to helping. I really like how y'all have done with him.
Playtest 1
William Garin vs Syvarris
Garin rolled 18 on turn 1 (not usefully against 1 figure :P)
Syvarris took the game with 2 life due to superior range.

Playtest 2
Garin vs Syvarris
Smaller map
Garin never got the powder but rained down arrows with height. Garin wins with 1 life

Playtest 3
Garin vs Syvarris
Garin absolutely failed at close quarters combat against the elf. 2 attacks of 3 vs 1 attack of 3 spelled doom for Garin.

All in all, I don't see him as a character thatset best suited for single combat. His strength seems to lie in slaughtering squads. I'd say point wise roughly 110-120 due to usefulness against squads.

Confred August 1st, 2017 12:44 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetsubo (Post 2158628)
I'm back from vacation so I can get back to helping. I really like how y'all have done with him.
Playtest 1
William Garin vs Syvarris
Garin rolled 18 on turn 1 (not usefully against 1 figure :P)
Syvarris took the game with 2 life due to superior range.

Playtest 2
Garin vs Syvarris
Smaller map
Garin never got the powder but rained down arrows with height. Garin wins with 1 life

Playtest 3
Garin vs Syvarris
Garin absolutely failed at close quarters combat against the elf. 2 attacks of 3 vs 1 attack of 3 spelled doom for Garin.

All in all, I don't see him as a character thatset best suited for single combat. His strength seems to lie in slaughtering squads. I'd say point wise roughly 110-120 due to usefulness against squads.

Good report.
Special Attack vs one target is +3 range. And it's good for getting rid of the reason to leave!

I've found that his multiple lives are best used for leaving engagements.

(I imagine his mercenary buddy granting disengage)


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