A3n, when you have a chance please let me know if the mini pictures here and for the Shadow Demon are up to snuff.
A3n
May 13th, 2013 01:57 AM
Re: The Book of Fire Demons - Playtesting
Shadow demon ones are better than these but we can make do with these. ;)
IAmBatman
May 13th, 2013 09:34 AM
Re: The Book of Fire Demons - Playtesting
I'll take "make do" any day of the week when it comes to taking pictures. :-D
IAmBatman
May 13th, 2013 02:28 PM
Re: The Book of Fire Demons - Playtesting
They're definitely better equipped as hero killers than squad killers. Four attacks of four on flying figures with defense of six is nothing to scoff at in general, though! :-) Even without considering their special powers.
Looks like they were definitely in the 230-250 range for you. If more tests come back looking like this, a drop to 240 might be in order.
Thanks for the tests!
Bats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-vile
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Fire Demons
- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them. Pass - respawning fiery demons are iconic (these are from a Thor comic if a remember correctly)
- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game. Pass
- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding. Pass, no bonding
- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak. Pass, no powerful synergy here
- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any. Pass
- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play. Pass, unique squads are a rarity in C3G and this one is a fun design
- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against. pass - not strong enough *cough*Thanos*cough* to be considered annoying when they resurrect.
- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting. Pass, kind of. Their points need lowered or something else raised slightly for me to draft them competitively.
- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable. Pass.
- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game. Pass, love the terrain placing.
Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?Yes - What should be the unit's point value? 250 seems fine. - Give a brief overview.It’s tricky to determine what point value the Fire Demons should be when they do so little. They tied up a few figures and prevented opposing ranged figures from camping on height, since I placed the lava field tiles on the highest points on the map. They defended against a few key attacks and made a few key attacks; it’s really the Threat of the Fire Demons that makes them worthwhile.
Map: Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh (no glyphs)
Units: Fire Demons, Flash, Superman II (950) vs Thor, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Lizard (950)
Spoiler Alert!
Pre-game thoughts: These guys are not very powerful for attacking purposes, though I like their multi-attacking. If they can rebirth many times throughout the game, on height each time, they will be powerful. I paired them with Flash because he is hard to kill, and then Superman because I want a heavy hitter. The opponents are a similar, no-synergy build. This should be a competitive match.
Round 1: All 4 Fire Demons advance, and the opposing team destroys three of them. Flash and Superman move forward as well. One Fire Demon is respawned at the end of the round.
Round 2: No Fire Demon turns this round, and no one attacked them (it’s a waste when there are two of them doing nothing, but the Fire Demons are preventing Hawkeye and Widow from getting on height and shooting down).Supes and Thor trade blows, with Black Widow caught in between. Supes takes 4 wounds, Thor takes 2 wounds, and Widow takes 4 wounds. No respawning this round.
Round 3: Supes and Thor duke it out, with Thor having superior dice. Superman is at 7 wounds, but he managed to KO Black Widow. Flash put 3 wounds on Hawkeye. No respawning this round either; looks like I’ll be saving the Fire Demons for the endgame.
Round 4: Superman falls after bringing Thor to 3 wounds. A lucky turn from the Fire Demons results in Lizard taking 4 wounds! Flash finishes him off on the next turn. Thor kills one Fire Demon then puts a wound on Flash. A Fire Demon respawns, leaving 2 on the battlefield.
Round 5: Flash Speed Dodges Thor and KOs him with Fist Fusillade, while the Fire Demons bring death to Hawkeye.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?Flash w/ 1 wound, 2 Fire Demons
Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?Ehh, abstain? It’s a fun unit, but swingy, so Pass. - What should be the unit's point value? Lower than 250, maybe 230? - Give a brief overview.The synergistic Assassin build with better dice annihilated the Yellow Lantern + Demon army. The Fire Demons were frail and died too early to do anything helpful.
Map: Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh (no glyphs)
Units: Fire Demons, YL Sinestro, YL Scarecrow (820) vs Hand Ninja x3, Lady Shiva, Merlyn, X-23 (810)
Spoiler Alert!
Pre-game thoughts: I want the Fire Demons to be my squad killers while the Yellow Lanterns will be my hero killers with a big single attack. The Hand Ninja should be a good opponent for the Demons to fight. The Assassin Heroes will give me a hard time, and I expect the Assassin team to win. However, once Merlyn goes down the Yellow Lanterns should be able to take care of the rest, and if not hopefully the Fire Demons will rebirth by then.
Round 1: The Fire Demons place lava field on height again. This again scares the opponents away from the highest points on the map. The Hand Ninja kill one Demon, but it rebirths at the end of the round. X-23 puts a wound on Scarecrow and 2 Hand Ninja fall to the Yellow Lanterns.
Round 2: A Fire Demon slays a Hand Ninja, but in a not-very-smart move, two Fire Demons on height attack Lady Shiva, and both are slain from Master Martial Artist. The other two are killed by Hand Ninja. X-23 puts 2 wounds on YL Scarecrow and forces him to remove a battery marker, taking one wound overall from Sinestro in return.
Round 3: Sinestro cannot roll skulls to save his life. Three 7-dice attacks on X-23 and only 2 skulls are rolled at a time. X-23 and the Hand Ninja take out YL Scarecrow while X-23 ends up healing this round. I did not have a good X-23 counter, apparently (or I should have used the Fire Demons to take out X-23).
Round 4: Finally with some luck, Sinestro takes out X-23 with Force of Fear (taking 3 wounds and losing 2 battery markers in the process; I should have used Force of Fear earlier, but with my luck it wouldn’t have KO’ed X-23 anyway). But the Hand Ninja and Merlyn KO Sinestro, winning this match for the synergistic Assassin Team.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?6 Hand Ninja, unwounded Merlyn and Lady Shiva
Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?Yes - What should be the unit's point value? I’d say 230 - Give a brief overview.The Fire Demons did really well this match, because they had to (everyone else on their team died!). This was lucky for Punisher’s team, but also a game in the Fire Demons’ favor, so combined with my results from the other tests 230 or so is more accurate.
Map: Turret Rocks (Astrid glyph)
Units: Fire Demons, Magneto II, Magma, Avalanche, Juggernaut (1230) vs Captain America (C3G), Batman I, Incredible Hulk (Hasbro), Iron Man (Hasbro), Punisher (1230)
Spoiler Alert!
Pre-game thoughts: The Captain America army looks really strong, but Magneto, Magma, and the Fire Demons could work well together. Auto-wounding by using Magneto’s Throw to throw opponents on Lava Field or Molten Lava seems very powerful as well. Juggernaut will provide a useful big attack to take down Hulk and Captain America, while Avalanche can move all of the heroes forward. Hopefully the Fire Demons will get a strong opening strike (keeping one in the back for resurrecting), so that they can be used in the endgame as well.
Round 1: The Fire Demons place 3 of the lava field tiles on the highest points of the map, and the fourth near the Astrid glyph. Magneto makes Magma an Outcast. Iron Man kills one Fire Demon, and Magma places a lava tile. No spawning this round.
Round 2: The Fire Demons get a great opening attack, putting 3 wounds on Iron Man and claiming Astrid (+1 attack). Batman and Iron Man take out one Demon each, leaving one left on the field. Captain America puts a wound on Avalanche, then Magneto Throws Iron Man to give him his last wound. Throwing into molten lava and lava field is a huge threat right now; I’m not sure if the Avengers can overcome it. No spawning this round.
Round 3: Magma places more lava, and Magneto cackles as he throws unwounded Captain America into molten lava to kill him. Batman snags Astrid (+1 attack), and brings Avalanche to 2 wounds. Punisher (with godly dice of 5,4,2 skulls) takes out Magneto all in a single turn! This game is fair once more, and either side could win. A Fire Demon respawns.
Round 4: Punisher has the dice of the gods. He “punishes” Juggernaut, Magma, and Avalanche in this round, leaving only 2 Fire Demons alive on the other side. Assault Rifle plus the Astrid glyph is just insanely powerful (he’s getting attacks of 6,5,4 dice each turn from 7 range, and he’s rolling a lot of skulls!).
Round 5: The Fire Demons finally kill Punisher after he kills one Fire Demon, but it respawns at the end of the round.
Round 6: Batman kills one Fire Demon, and a now-angry Hulk kills the other. Who won and how many wounds did they have?healthy Batman and 4-wound Hulk
IAmBatman
May 14th, 2013 03:32 PM
Re: The Book of Fire Demons - Playtesting
Thanks! Not sure you need a strategy with these guys, though! You kicked some tail!
I find that having four attacks of four a turn and a chance to bring back fallen members (helping them reduce the biggest weakness of a unique squad) is enough to make them pretty darn tough. :-)
Cheers,
Bats
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkraptor5413
Oh almost forgot on the Fire Demon games the first was a 970 point the second was 960 point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin
(Post 1120697)
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Fire Demons
- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them. Pass
- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game. Pass
- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding. Pass
- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak. Pass
- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any. Pass
- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play. Pass
- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against. Pass
- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting. Pass
- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable. Pass
- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game. Pass
Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Pass - What should be the unit's point value? 250 - Give a brief overview.No sire if I played these well, couldn't really think of how to use these guys. That said it was a fun game and the resurrection power was cool.
Map: Grundy's Graveyard
Units: Dark Phoenix, Firestar, Heat Wave, Fire Demons VS Mister Freeze, Captain Cold, Iceman, Icicle, Doomsday
Spoiler Alert!
(summary)The game kicked off with Phoenix taking the field followed by Mister Freeze. Then the Fire Demons moved out as well as Iceman, Firestar, and last Doomsday. Phoenix advanced again followed by Freeze. Phoenix moved and dealt Freeze and Iceman a wound with *Psionic Wave. Then she opened fire on Freeze dealing him another wound. Freeze fired his Freeze Ray at Phoenix who blocked. Phoenix engaged Freeze and dealt him and Iceman another wound with Psionic Wave, then she attacked Freeze who blocked. Doomsday engaged Phoenix dealing her three wounds and dealing one back to Doomsday with Phoenix Fire. Icicle takes the field. Phoenix deals one to Iceman and Doomsday and attacks Freeze destroying him. Doomsday attacks Phoenix dealing her another two wounds. The Fire Demons advance and two of them go after Iceman destroying him. Icicle uses Slick Ice Spray placing ice under two of the Fire Demons. The Fire Demons are a out to move when Slick Ice *Spray claims two of them, *The remaining two go after Icicle dealing him a total of two wounds and then one of the Fire Demons that had been destroyed came back in a pool of lava. Doomsday attacked Phoenix dealing two more wounds and gaming one from Pboenix Fire. Phoenix deals him another with Psionic Wave and then attacks and manages to deal the monster two more wounds destroying Dommsday. Icicle moves and throws his Ice Dart twice at a Fire Demon and misses both times. The Fire Demons destroy Icicle. Captain Cold advances and Phoenix goes to meet him. After a short back and forth Cold is taken out with a Psionic Wave.* Who won and how many wounds did they have?Dark Phoenix 7 wounds, Firestar 0 wounds, Heat Wave 0 wounds, Fire Demons 3 figures
Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Pass - What should be the unit's point value? 250 - Give a brief overview.Fun game still can't think of a strategy for these guys though. However the did some serious damage on their own.
Map: Grundy's Graveyard
Units: Frankenstein, Mister Hyde, Werewolf, Fire Demons VS Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Rhino, Hawkmen of Thanagar (x3)
Spoiler Alert!
(summary)The game starts with Frankenstein taking the field followed by a squad of Hawkmen and then Hawkgirl for Battle Maneuver. Next Hyde advanced followed by Rhino, then the Fire Demons and lastly Hawkman. Frankenstein engaged Hawkgirl and attacked but she managed to block. Using Creature Command Hyde advanced, followed Hawkgirl attacking Frankenstein. Frank takes two wounds but thanks to Undead Resilience took no damage. Using Birds Of A Feather a squad of Hawkmen fly in and attack Frankenstein dealing three wounds followed by an additional two. The Fire Demons advance on the Hawkmen, managing to take both out. Hawkman uses Hawk Strike and attacks Frank dealing 5 wounds. Frank attacks Hawkgirl dealing her two wounds then has Hyde advance and engage Hawkman. Hyde rolls a 19 for Blind Rage and deals three to Hawkman. Hawkman attacks Frank the only dealing two which Frank ignores with Undead Resilience. A squad of Hawkmen advance due to Birds Of A Feather then thanks to Undying Love Hawkman *attacks again taking down Frank. The Fire Demons all gang up on Hawkgirl and destroy her. Then a squad of Hawkmen advance and take out two Fire Demons. Hyde rolls a 11 for Blind Rage and deals one to Hawkman. The Hawkmen attack the remaining two Blood Demons and manage to take out one more. Hyde manages to roll a 20 for Blind Rage and destroy Hawkman, and the Hawkmen go after the last Blood Demon who somehow manages to block both their attacks. With Fire Spawning two Fire Demons return, and Hyde engages Rhino rolls a one for Blind Rage and Rhino blocks his attack. Rhino attacks Hyde dealing two wounds and the Fire Demons take out two more Hawkmen. Rhino attacks Hyde again this time he blocks, then Hyde attacks getting a 19 for Blind Rage and dealing two wounds to Rhino. Hyde attacks Rhino again rolling a 19 for Blind Rage and dealing three to Rhino. The final squad of Hawkmen take the field and Hyde finishes Rhino off. The Fire Demons go for the last squad of Hawmen and takes on down. The Hawkmen take out one Blood Demon but the remaining two finally defeat the Hawkmen. Who won and how many wounds did they have?Mister Hyde 2 wounds, Wherewolf 0 wounds, Fire Demons 3 figures