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-   -   The Pre-SoV Workshop (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47761)

greygnarl March 22nd, 2013 02:00 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by capsocrates (Post 1786192)
Quote:

Originally Posted by boromir96 (Post 1786171)
Quote:

Originally Posted by greygnarl (Post 1786168)
So how is that harder to remember than where the figure started on a normal move?

I don't think it would be that much harder than Acolarh, it does have precedent. :2cents:

Yes, I forgot about Acolarh. Starting adjacent does have precedent. Starting within an aura sounds messy and it really is something I would rather not see. Maybe its not that bad and wouldn't be a big deal, but its not something I would personally like to see happen. Maybe I'm the only one, in which case my concern would be overriden, I'm sure.

I don't like it either. However, I don't think it's as messy as you mak eit out to be. Doesn't seem messy at all really...

Son of Arathorn March 22nd, 2013 02:19 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by capsocrates (Post 1786077)
SoA, I like the first revision better than the original, but it makes him feel very much like a Warlord. Not sure what to suggest--all of the Warforged heroes so far have had a distinctly original power. Maybe that's what's bugging me about this design--it doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table. Many times that's okay, and maybe it's okay in this case, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Something tells me you might've hit on something. If I keep the leadership aspect, but give him a somewhat unique power pertaining to that aspect (that's not too complicated) it'd give the design at least a better factor of interest.

So I'd keep one of his leadership powers (either combat leader or warforged leadership), add a new power, and keep warforged resolve. What about this:



NAME = VANGUARD
GENERAL = VYDAR
PLANET = EBERRON
SPECIES = WARFORGED
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEADER
PERSONALITY = INSPIRING
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 130/???

COMBAT LEADER

If at least one order marker is on Vanguard, you may add 3 to your initiative roll.

WARFORGED ASSAULT
When Vanguard, or a Warforged Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Vanguard destroys an opponents figure, you may immediately take a turn with a Warforged Common Squad you control. Figures moved by Warforged Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vanguard prior to moving.

WARFORGED RESOLVE
When Vanguard rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, add 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

This makes for sort of a canned build when playing, or at least a somewhat limited build.

Kinda going beyond minor changes and into the realm of design reworking.

Am I on something of the right track here, or have I gone completely off the rails.

greygnarl March 22nd, 2013 02:27 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
I dislike the name Vanguard on a figure that is not associated with Valguard.

Heroscaper Guy March 22nd, 2013 02:31 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
A vanguard is a troop at the front lines or the forefront of action or movement.

greygnarl March 22nd, 2013 02:32 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy (Post 1786211)
A vanguard is a troop at the front lines or the forefront of action or movement.

Yes I know, but it's just to similar to Valguard imo.

superfrog March 22nd, 2013 02:38 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greygnarl (Post 1786212)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy (Post 1786211)
A vanguard is a troop at the front lines or the forefront of action or movement.

Yes I know, but it's just to similar to Valguard imo.

I disagree, especially when there are figures with names like Gladiators/Gladiatrons. It is just fine, imo.

Arch-vile March 22nd, 2013 03:08 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greygnarl (Post 1786212)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy (Post 1786211)
A vanguard is a troop at the front lines or the forefront of action or movement.

Yes I know, but it's just to similar to Valguard imo.

I agree with greygnarl, similar names like these are too confusing.

Vanguard is an interesting design, though I'm not a fan of "canning" his build into Warforged armies. The Warforged are already pretty good and I'm not sure they need the help. He gives the theme of a Warforged Leader off well, and does it in a new way, which is a plus.

capsocrates March 22nd, 2013 03:15 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn (Post 1786205)
Quote:

Originally Posted by capsocrates (Post 1786077)
SoA, I like the first revision better than the original, but it makes him feel very much like a Warlord. Not sure what to suggest--all of the Warforged heroes so far have had a distinctly original power. Maybe that's what's bugging me about this design--it doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table. Many times that's okay, and maybe it's okay in this case, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Something tells me you might've hit on something. If I keep the leadership aspect, but give him a somewhat unique power pertaining to that aspect (that's not too complicated) it'd give the design at least a better factor of interest.

So I'd keep one of his leadership powers (either combat leader or warforged leadership), add a new power, and keep warforged resolve. What about this:



NAME = VANGUARD
GENERAL = VYDAR
PLANET = EBERRON
SPECIES = WARFORGED
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEADER
PERSONALITY = INSPIRING
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 130/???

COMBAT LEADER

If at least one order marker is on Vanguard, you may add 3 to your initiative roll.

WARFORGED ASSAULT
When Vanguard, or a Warforged Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Vanguard destroys an opponents figure, you may immediately take a turn with a Warforged Common Squad you control. Figures moved by Warforged Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vanguard prior to moving.

WARFORGED RESOLVE
When Vanguard rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, add 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

This makes for sort of a canned build when playing, or at least a somewhat limited build.

Kinda going beyond minor changes and into the realm of design reworking.

Am I on something of the right track here, or have I gone completely off the rails.

Hm, that's a little more original, but I feel like I've seen the "if wound is inflicted, take a turn with X" mechanic elsewhere (maybe just a brainstorm thread somewhere). I'm not sure bonding is quite what I had in mind when I said "original."

FWIW, I'm not entirely sure that you'd be wrong to go the solo-hero route, since all of the previous Warforged heroes went that route. The main thing is that whatever route you go it should be distinct and interesting.

-----

Vanguard is a fine warforged-ish name, although it might not be the best one.

Scytale March 22nd, 2013 03:19 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn (Post 1786205)
WARFORGED ASSAULT
When Vanguard, or a Warforged Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Vanguard destroys an opponents figure, you may immediately take a turn with a Warforged Common Squad you control. Figures moved by Warforged Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vanguard prior to moving.

Neat idea, but it won't work as-is. The common squad would be taking its turn during the hero's turn, creating turn stacking. It could maybe be reworded to allow for the turn after the hero's turn, but I'd have to think about the potential problems that could create.

capsocrates March 22nd, 2013 04:02 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scytale (Post 1786241)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn (Post 1786205)
WARFORGED ASSAULT
When Vanguard, or a Warforged Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Vanguard destroys an opponents figure, you may immediately take a turn with a Warforged Common Squad you control. Figures moved by Warforged Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vanguard prior to moving.

Neat idea, but it won't work as-is. The common squad would be taking its turn during the hero's turn, creating turn stacking. It could maybe be reworded to allow for the turn after the hero's turn, but I'd have to think about the potential problems that could create.

Scytale is right of course.

Since this figure seems to be heading into redesign territory rather than just workshopping territory, I suggest you pull him, unless you want to focus on one of the earlier iterations that was more similar to the original idea.

IshMEL March 22nd, 2013 04:44 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
See, now I really want to see an Ignaz Phillip Semmelweis custom fig. Who says you don't learn anything hanging around heroscapers.com?

I like "Cadaverous Blight" because it gets across the infection idea, and "Grasp" doesn't really quite, well, grasp that. It could be that he doesn't grab you, anyway, it's just that if you get too close you get infected. The Particles is cool from a history of science perspective, but I think most folks will think "Particle Beam." How about:

Cadaverous Blight
Necrotic Infection
Miasma of Pestilence

Running out of ideas, but it's late on a Friday...

Son of Arathorn March 22nd, 2013 04:52 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by capsocrates (Post 1786273)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scytale (Post 1786241)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn (Post 1786205)
WARFORGED ASSAULT
When Vanguard, or a Warforged Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Vanguard destroys an opponents figure, you may immediately take a turn with a Warforged Common Squad you control. Figures moved by Warforged Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vanguard prior to moving.

Neat idea, but it won't work as-is. The common squad would be taking its turn during the hero's turn, creating turn stacking. It could maybe be reworded to allow for the turn after the hero's turn, but I'd have to think about the potential problems that could create.

Scytale is right of course.

Since this figure seems to be heading into redesign territory rather than just workshopping territory, I suggest you pull him, unless you want to focus on one of the earlier iterations that was more similar to the original idea.

Agreed. I'll pull him and start from what I've gathered here. Thanks for all the help guys, this thread is definitely living up to its name.


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