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-   -   The Pre-SoV Workshop (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47761)

capsocrates March 22nd, 2013 11:40 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
SoA, I like the first revision better than the original, but it makes him feel very much like a Warlord. Not sure what to suggest--all of the Warforged heroes so far have had a distinctly original power. Maybe that's what's bugging me about this design--it doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table. Many times that's okay, and maybe it's okay in this case, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

IshMEL, I like where you're headed. Cadaverous Grasp seems like a step up, but is there anyway you can make it slightly more clear that its a defensive reaction? Cadaverous Countergrasp sounds too literal, but something along those lines?

1Mmirg March 22nd, 2013 11:54 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Cadaverous Blight?
Cadaverous Cloud?
Curse of the Crypt?
Aura of Death?

Not sure what you actually have in mind. Does he literally try to grab everyone who attacks him? Or is he infected with something that when he's attacked is released? (Like mummy dust or alien blood?)

I'll admit that I see it more as a Necrotic Dust or something that is stirred when he is struck--often back in the face of the one who hit him. But I'm not sure what you are going for.

Heroscaper Guy March 22nd, 2013 12:01 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Mmirg (Post 1786086)
Cadaverous Blight?
Cadaverous Cloud?
Curse of the Crypt?
Aura of Death?

Not sure what you actually have in mind. Does he literally try to grab everyone who attacks him? Or is he infected with something that when he's attacked is released? (Like mummy dust or alien blood?)

I'll admit that I see it more as a Necrotic Dust or something that is stirred when he is struck--often back in the face of the one who hit him. But I'm not sure what you are going for.

From the original name it sounds like he grabs them and spreads a sort of infection in retribution for the attack.

Serenity March 22nd, 2013 12:07 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
For the Vanguard Leadership ability- I'd like to see some limiter in there, even if it's a minor one. Let him add 1 to movement for all warforged that start their movement within 8(10?) clear spaces of him. Then you can't just stick him in your start zone and benefit the entire game. You might have to spend a turn maneuvering him up for maximum benefit. At least it could require a little thought and strategy this way.

I also think his initiative bonus should only work if all order markers are on warforged units. He looks more like the leader of the warforged, not anyone who happens to be thrown in with him.

---

For Lord Revadac, I like the sound of Cadaver Particles. Just the sort of thing to be kicked up and breathed in when you hit him.

As far as his Insanity, I wish you'd take it even further. Make the fail hurt even more, have him attack the nearest friendly creature (moving to them, if he's able to reach them). But, on a high success (17+?) give him a +2 to attack, defense and move for the turn.

I'd love if he had another ability - Inspiring Fear. Give +1 movement to all your units that start within 4 spaces of him. So, do you move him up with your troops and benefit from the fear-inspired movement bonus, but risk him turning on his own troops in his madness? Or do you leave him in the back, sending his troops out to fight and die before he takes the field in a mad rush? I like this sort of risk-based decision making where it makes sense.

capsocrates March 22nd, 2013 12:14 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity (Post 1786098)
For the Vanguard Leadership ability- I'd like to see some limiter in there, even if it's a minor one. Let him add 1 to movement for all warforged that start their movement within 8(10?) clear spaces of him. Then you can't just stick him in your start zone and benefit the entire game. You might have to spend a turn maneuvering him up for maximum benefit. At least it could require a little thought and strategy this way.

I think this is a bad idea for two reasons--one, keeping track of where a unit started can get to be a pain. Two, this issue already exists with Warden 816 and Marcus Decimus Gallus. Even if it were a good idea to begin with, adding that kind of complexity is not worth breaking precedent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity (Post 1786098)
I also think his initiative bonus should only work if all order markers are on warforged units. He looks more like the leader of the warforged, not anyone who happens to be thrown in with him.

This is pretty reasonable suggestion, though, if you decide to keep the Initiative bonus. Not sure you should take this suggestion (sometimes multi-synergy figures are better), but its worth considering.

Serenity March 22nd, 2013 12:38 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
I think Warden and Marcus' power could have been made more interesting and strategic, so though it is precedent I'm not sure it is the best model for future units.

Perhaps keeping it to just a clear line of sight and not a distance would make it less complex, but still offer some times where it made a difference in strategy?

I added some Lord Revadac ideas to my last post, btw.

greygnarl March 22nd, 2013 12:44 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by capsocrates (Post 1786104)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity (Post 1786098)
For the Vanguard Leadership ability- I'd like to see some limiter in there, even if it's a minor one. Let him add 1 to movement for all warforged that start their movement within 8(10?) clear spaces of him. Then you can't just stick him in your start zone and benefit the entire game. You might have to spend a turn maneuvering him up for maximum benefit. At least it could require a little thought and strategy this way.

I think this is a bad idea for two reasons--one, keeping track of where a unit started can get to be a pain. Two, this issue already exists with Warden 816 and Marcus Decimus Gallus. Even if it were a good idea to begin with, adding that kind of complexity is not worth breaking precedent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity (Post 1786098)
I also think his initiative bonus should only work if all order markers are on warforged units. He looks more like the leader of the warforged, not anyone who happens to be thrown in with him.

This is pretty reasonable suggestion, though, if you decide to keep the Initiative bonus. Not sure you should take this suggestion (sometimes multi-synergy figures are better), but its worth considering.

I agree with you o the rest, but not really this. You check this before moving, not after.

capsocrates March 22nd, 2013 01:15 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity (Post 1786098)
For Lord Revadac, I like the sound of Cadaver Particles. Just the sort of thing to be kicked up and breathed in when you hit him.

I'm fine with the concept here, but Particles sounds way too Sci-Fi for a Fantasy unit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity (Post 1786098)
As far as his Insanity, I wish you'd take it even further. Make the fail hurt even more, have him attack the nearest friendly creature (moving to them, if he's able to reach them). But, on a high success (17+?) give him a +2 to attack, defense and move for the turn.

I'm neutral on the second half of the suggestion (although I'm not sure I see it), but we already discussed a move-to-the-nearest-friendly tweak. I don't think it would work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity (Post 1786098)
I'd love if he had another ability - Inspiring Fear. Give +1 movement to all your units that start within 4 spaces of him. So, do you move him up with your troops and benefit from the fear-inspired movement bonus, but risk him turning on his own troops in his madness? Or do you leave him in the back, sending his troops out to fight and die before he takes the field in a mad rush? I like this sort of risk-based decision making where it makes sense.

Again with the possible keeping-track-of-who-started-where confusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greygnarl (Post 1786130)
I agree with you o the rest, but not really this. You check this before moving, not after.

That's all fine and dandy until you undo a move, or second-guess something.

greygnarl March 22nd, 2013 01:17 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
So how is that harder to remember than where the figure started on a normal move?

boromir96 March 22nd, 2013 01:22 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greygnarl (Post 1786168)
So how is that harder to remember than where the figure started on a normal move?

I don't think it would be that much harder than Acolarh, it does have precedent. :2cents:

Serenity March 22nd, 2013 01:44 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
I only thought of Cadaver Particles because I had recently listened to a very interesting podcast that talked about Invisible Cadaver Particles as a theory in the 1800s. Just because I found it so interesting as a look back at the evolution of medicine, here's some information.

The first person to realize that an infectious organism could be transmitted from one person to another was the Hungarian physician Ignaz Phillip Semmelweis. Between 1847 and 1849, Semmelweis observed that women who had their babies at the hospital with the help of medical students and physicians were four times as likely to contract puerperal fever as those who gave birth with the help of midwives. He concluded that the physicians and the students were infecting women with the material remaining on their hands after autopsies and other activities. He suggested that "invisible cadaver particles" might be responsible for the transmission of disease from autopsy to patient. Semmelweis thus required handwashing with a chlorine solution "until the hands were slippery and the odor of the cadaver was gone" before examining patients or delivering babies. This handwashing regimen led to a dramatic decrease in the number of cases of puerperal fever and saved the lives of many women. As a result, Semmelweis is credited with being the pioneer of antisepsis in obstetrics. Unfortunately, in his own time, most of the medical establishment refused to acknowledge his contribution and adopt his procedures. After years of rejection, Semmelweis had a nervous breakdown in 1865. He died a short time later of a wound infection. It is very probable that it was a streptococcal infection, arising from the same pathogen he had struggled against his whole professional life.

capsocrates March 22nd, 2013 01:55 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boromir96 (Post 1786171)
Quote:

Originally Posted by greygnarl (Post 1786168)
So how is that harder to remember than where the figure started on a normal move?

I don't think it would be that much harder than Acolarh, it does have precedent. :2cents:

Yes, I forgot about Acolarh. Starting adjacent does have precedent. Starting within an aura sounds messy and it really is something I would rather not see. Maybe its not that bad and wouldn't be a big deal, but its not something I would personally like to see happen. Maybe I'm the only one, in which case my concern would be overriden, I'm sure.


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