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-   -   The Pre-SoV Workshop (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47761)

William099 June 1st, 2015 11:38 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Good :) Glad you feel that way scytale. And yes I did want him to get the autoshield on zero dice.

Ixe June 1st, 2015 04:09 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
I'm liking the changes to Rampage. 7 Life still feels a little high but I guess he is a barbarian. I think you otherwise hit barbarian rage pretty well which also plays in with Siege's "reveal the X order marker" thing. I like the match of 0 defense with Warforged Resolve. Seems like a fun solo hero that can hit pretty hard and do decently against lower attacks. Reckless second swing adds some nice bite and plays in well with the theme.

Kinseth June 1st, 2015 04:13 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by capsocrates (Post 2024115)
I don't see the thematic need for 4 defense on those common squad figures. Drop it to 3 and kill two birds with one stone (power level and theme fail).

I don't quite see a Theme Fail(Though I am testing it at 3 defense vs 4 again.)
  • They are 7 foot tall figures who wear armor (though until the figures are in hand, i can't tell you the exact size.)
  • Have shields
  • A gnoll is about 7-1/2 feet tall and weighs 300 pounds.

Doesn't seem far off that if Anubian Wolves walk around with 4 def, that the gnolls couldn't.

Dysole June 2nd, 2015 01:42 AM

Thaco
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2024858)
Quote:

Originally Posted by capsocrates (Post 2024115)
I don't see the thematic need for 4 defense on those common squad figures. Drop it to 3 and kill two birds with one stone (power level and theme fail).

I don't quite see a Theme Fail(Though I am testing it at 3 defense vs 4 again.)
  • They are 7 foot tall figures who wear armor (though until the figures are in hand, i can't tell you the exact size.)
  • Have shields
  • A gnoll is about 7-1/2 feet tall and weighs 300 pounds.

Doesn't seem far off that if Anubian Wolves walk around with 4 def, that the gnolls couldn't.

Today's fun fact. Looking at the d20srd (which is not the most current edition of DND grant you but I haven't purchased 5th edition (or 4th edition) yet) here are the armor classes of everybody who's made an appearance in Scape that wears armor that was there so it's missing the Death Knights, Goliaths, Firbolgs, and Warforged. (Higher is better)

Gnoll - 15 AC

Goblin - 15 AC
Ogre - 16 AC (19 AC for barbarian)
Orc - 13 AC
Bugbear (HSB) - 17 AC
Frost Giant - 21 AC
Fire Giant - 21 AC
Troll - 16 AC

While not a perfect correlation, everyone with 4 or greater defense has at least a 17 AC. I just don't see it.

~Dysole, armored up

William099 June 2nd, 2015 02:04 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Fixed the typo on Rampage's card. Anyone want to schedule time with me to test him out and nail down his points?

Kinseth June 2nd, 2015 08:50 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
@Dysole , we both know you can't take that at face value.

Gnolls are a hearty opponent with 2d8+2 hit points, on average 11. We can't represent that in Heroscape for their life. So it would be factored into their Armor Class.

Goblin has 1d8+1, on average 5.
Orc has 1d8+1, On Average 5. Orcs are 6 feet tall and 210 pounds.

If Heavy Gruts(assume a beefier Orc) are Def 3, it is certainly plausible that Gnolls can be Def 4.

If you take Othkurik, he has AC 19 as a young dragon. But Def of a 3.

I am still looking at Def 3 as an option though.

CrazyTankster June 2nd, 2015 09:02 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
@William099 I have time today till about 4 uf you want to get a game in.

William099 June 2nd, 2015 11:57 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
I'm available from now until noon @CrazyTankster if you are still lurking.

Dysole June 2nd, 2015 12:50 PM

Close
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2024990)
@Dysole , we both know you can't take that at face value.

Gnolls are a hearty opponent with 2d8+2 hit points, on average 11. We can't represent that in Heroscape for their life. So it would be factored into their Armor Class.

Goblin has 1d8+1, on average 5.
Orc has 1d8+1, On Average 5. Orcs are 6 feet tall and 210 pounds.

If Heavy Gruts(assume a beefier Orc) are Def 3, it is certainly plausible that Gnolls can be Def 4.

If you take Othkurik, he has AC 19 as a young dragon. But Def of a 3.

I am still looking at Def 3 as an option though.

Grut orcs =/= DND orcs. Regardless, I think 3 makes them a solid option while 4 makes them too powerful.

~Dysole, still noting that I'm not incentivized to bring the warchief into the fray

Kinseth June 2nd, 2015 02:05 PM

Re: Close
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dysole (Post 2025062)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2024990)
@Dysole , we both know you can't take that at face value.

Gnolls are a hearty opponent with 2d8+2 hit points, on average 11. We can't represent that in Heroscape for their life. So it would be factored into their Armor Class.

Goblin has 1d8+1, on average 5.
Orc has 1d8+1, On Average 5. Orcs are 6 feet tall and 210 pounds.

If Heavy Gruts(assume a beefier Orc) are Def 3, it is certainly plausible that Gnolls can be Def 4.

If you take Othkurik, he has AC 19 as a young dragon. But Def of a 3.

I am still looking at Def 3 as an option though.

Grut orcs =/= DND orcs. Regardless, I think 3 makes them a solid option while 4 makes them too powerful.

~Dysole, still noting that I'm not incentivized to bring the warchief into the fray

Why do you feel like 4 makes them too powerful? More Powerful than Heavies? Knights Weston? I don't want them more powerful than those figures, so please let me know why/how? Let's keep this apples to apples though.

I'd like to hear how you feel about 3 vs 4 defense in both of those instances.

I Don't feel like it is a bad thing you don't want to risk the War Chief till mid game, but mid game is where you win or lose most often. There comes a time where the player has to decide when to stick the neck out for the chief, and that is okay. The theme around the chief is that he only swaggers into battle when it is assured victory. A game can be lost when you move him in too early, or are out positioned and he becomes exposed. Losing the Chief really hurts the army.

~Keeping my options open.

Dysole June 2nd, 2015 02:39 PM

Sure
 
Because Heavies and Knights have 4 defense pretty regularly. Heavies and Knights also have 3 attack. So basically they are a squad of 5 move knights with a more reliable way to get a bonus attack and don't need the adjacency requirement that heavies do to get their attack and defense bonuses. So yeah, they are at least as good as them.

~Dysole, theoryscaping

Kinseth June 2nd, 2015 04:10 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
A Squad of 5 move knights who cost more per figure. 17.5 vs 20.(80 for 4 person squad of Gnolls vs 70 4 person for Knights/Heavies) Let's also remember that the main bonding hero for Knights offers them both Attack Bonus, and Movement bonus. Bonding Heroes matter to an extent.

Heavies have 4 Defense for the most part with Nerak, disengage, and attack/defense bonus with Chompy.

Dysole perhaps sometime we should playtest Knights vs Gnolls and Knights vs Heavies and see how they compare?

My goal is for the faction to be a step below both of those.


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