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-   -   Decision 2016 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53250)

The_X_Marker December 13th, 2016 10:39 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hahma (Post 2125321)
Wonder why Trump wants the Exxon boss as Secretary of State?

On the plus side, Rex T (can we call him T.Rex?) is pretty active in trying to move us out of fossil fuels and into safe and sustainable power, like nuclear, due to his stance on climate change being real and something that we have to combat.

Hahma December 13th, 2016 10:49 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_X_Marker (Post 2125625)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hahma (Post 2125321)
Wonder why Trump wants the Exxon boss as Secretary of State?

On the plus side, Rex T (can we call him T.Rex?) is pretty active in trying to move us out of fossil fuels and into safe and sustainable power, like nuclear, due to his stance on climate change being real and something that we have to combat.

That seems kind of conflicting with T. Rex's business interests. :)

Swamper December 15th, 2016 10:17 AM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Thoughts on this article?

https://newrepublic.com/article/1392...-faux-protests

Ranior December 15th, 2016 10:57 AM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swamper (Post 2125937)

An editorial that I find pretty vacuous. I think the part that makes me immediately shake my head is the idea that Drumpf was an actual protest against Trump that was meant to have intellectual vigor or be effective at swaying conservatives to Trump's faults.

The entire point about Harry Potter stuff is absurd to me. The author manages to point out a handful of articles during a period of 18 some months as some sort of evidence that liberals were failing to combat Trump because they focused too much on Harry Potter? I can't even fathom how that is the case. Instead it seems a few online sites posted some articles here and there to attract attention and drive traffic. I don't even see how this has any real linking to liberals or democrats failings in the latest election cycle.

I guess my thoughts on this article are that it is devoid of any real intellectual points, and doesn't actually point out the real failings of liberals or the democrats in the latest election cycle. Ultimately I disagree with the author's conclusions and don't think the article is actually worth reading.

Dad_Scaper December 15th, 2016 11:24 AM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Two thoughts:

1) Satire is a perfectly reasonable response to exaggeration and to fearmongering.

2) I confess I don't know anything about the safety pins, except that some of my FB friends were posting things about it, but I wasn't interested enough to pursue. At first glance it seemed to me to be pointless, though I am well aware that my uninformed first glance may have been unfair and/or mistaken. If some people made money selling fancy safety pins to people who wanted to buy them, that's fine with me.

3) I keep seeing pieces that imply that it was the responsibility of the "liberals" to defeat Trump. It's normally presented, as here, as a premise. It was not the responsibility of the liberals to prevent a totally unqualified, corrupt narcissist from becoming President of the United States. It was the responsibility of all of us,, and I know, Swamper, that you were no fan of his either. Country has to come before party, and people have to be discerning enough to know when they are being subjected to gaslighting.

We all share some responsibility, I guess, but mostly I blame the people who voted for him. I'm not saying those people owe me an explanation or an apology and I'm not saying those people can't be friends of mine, but they're the ones who put him where he is.

4) I don't blame people who complained online or who wore safety pins. What they did, and what I've done, may not have made a difference. As far as that goes, I agree with the article.

I know how to carry on a conversation, or a debate, with most of my friends. When it comes to politics, it's my experience that people tend to shut down, or move quickly to a point where facts become "opinions" and there is no point in further discussion. I don't know how to find the words to push past that point into a fully developed exchange of ideas, even though I tried.

So I suppose that, if I bought a safety pin or some other gewgaw as an ineffective symbol of some kind, maybe I did it because I was out of other ideas. I'm not angry or in despair or anything, but I do feel like I don't know where to go from here in some ways, so I guess I understand.

Bernie was able to do it. I take some comfort in knowing that it's possible, at least when there's a moderator present to keep things on track.

Swamper December 15th, 2016 11:58 AM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Thanks for the thoughts. I largely agree with both of you. The article, to me, brought to mind not the Democratic party or liberal group as a whole, but a subset of the group that seems to find ways to "protest" or be an "activist" without ever really doing anything. It seems very self-righteous to me.

I really respect the attitude some people here had when Trump was elected. I'm thinking specifically of Dysole signing up for that trans hotline thing. That's a real, concrete action that will help people. I respect that. I have a harder time respecting people wearing safety pins or checking in on Facebook at Standing Rock when they're in their warm living rooms.

That basic thought of the article I agreed with. The rest of it was fluff. I did find the Harry Potter part kinda funny.

Tornado December 15th, 2016 12:03 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
"gewgaws". Yes!
Made my day DS.

I really liked Ranior's use of vacuous. Not as good as gewgaws but hey what is right.

Score one for vocabulary!

Dad_Scaper December 15th, 2016 12:07 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swamper (Post 2125950)
Thanks for the thoughts. I largely agree with both of you. The article, to me, brought to mind not the Democratic party or liberal group as a whole, but a subset of the group that seems to find ways to "protest" or be an "activist" without ever really doing anything. It seems very self-righteous to me.

I really respect the attitude some people here had when Trump was elected. I'm thinking specifically of Dysole signing up for that trans hotline thing. That's a real, concrete action that will help people. I respect that. I have a harder time respecting people wearing safety pins or checking in on Facebook at Standing Rock when they're in their warm living rooms.

That basic thought of the article I agreed with. The rest of it was fluff. I did find the Harry Potter part kinda funny.

Well, if people are angry or hurt or upset or frustrated, and they choose to express that with safety pins, that's ok with me. Don't misunderstand me.

I don't blame people who wear safety pins for electing Trump, nor do I hold them responsible for his election, nor do I really care if they wear safety pins. They aren't bothering me; I'm not bothering them.

Swamper December 15th, 2016 12:10 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2125955)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swamper (Post 2125950)
Thanks for the thoughts. I largely agree with both of you. The article, to me, brought to mind not the Democratic party or liberal group as a whole, but a subset of the group that seems to find ways to "protest" or be an "activist" without ever really doing anything. It seems very self-righteous to me.

I really respect the attitude some people here had when Trump was elected. I'm thinking specifically of Dysole signing up for that trans hotline thing. That's a real, concrete action that will help people. I respect that. I have a harder time respecting people wearing safety pins or checking in on Facebook at Standing Rock when they're in their warm living rooms.

That basic thought of the article I agreed with. The rest of it was fluff. I did find the Harry Potter part kinda funny.

Well, if people are angry or hurt or upset or frustrated, and they choose to express that with safety pins, that's ok with me. Don't misunderstand me.

I don't blame people who wear safety pins for electing Trump, nor do I hold them responsible for his election, nor do I really care if they wear safety pins. They aren't bothering me; I'm not bothering them.

I feel the same way, as long as those wearing the safety pins aren't looking down on or judging those that don't see the point in wearing a safety pin.

Dad_Scaper December 15th, 2016 12:19 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Seems to me almost everybody is judging everybody else. That's why I posted the Mr. Rogers link, above. Even if they are judging you for your politics, it doesn't mean that they are lost souls. We could all set good examples by walking that back.

Who cares if they're judging you? They might be. They might not be. Don't you judge them. I know that I'm routinely judged for the political opinions I share, but I am learning that I should try to get beyond that. Let's not act like judgment is a handgun, and I won't put down mine until you put down yours first. Be the change you want to see.

Spoiler Alert!

Tornado December 15th, 2016 12:29 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
Safety pins should only be worn on the varsity jackets of high school wrestlers.

Those pins should be earned on the mat of combat.

:)

Hahma December 15th, 2016 12:31 PM

Re: Decision 2016
 
As mentioned by others above, I don't think any of that stuff had anything to do with Trump winning.

I had no idea about the Drumf thing, nor the Harry Potter crap. In either case, they are nothing, as Trump gave plenty of ammunition on his own. The people that voted for him didn't care about anything he said, nor anything liberals said.

To me, the main profiteer from Trump during the campaign and that helped him a lot, was the "liberal" media. Lots of free airtime every time he said something controversial. He played them like a fiddle.

If anything, I think people didn't take him serious, and took advantage of his controversy to make money.

And it wasn't only the liberals that couldn't counter Trump, there were like 500 (exaggeration) other Republicans running against him. They had no answer either, as they didn't bring out in people what Trump did.

There are a lot of angry people out there, and Trump tapped into that by helping point the finger to many different places for the cause of the angry voters problems. He promised to eliminate those issues. Liberals didn't tap into that.

Certainly not all people that voted for Trump were angry people, but there must be enough to have helped him win.

Finally. I don't think it was the liberal's job to win the election for the Dems, it was the candidates and their campaign staff. They fell short, as Clinton was an easy target with baggage that was used against her, while Trump could have killed a child (exaggeration) in front of many and it wouldn't have mattered to his voters. He was an outsider and was going to drain the swamp, put Wall Street in its place, build a wall, repeal Obamacare, create millions of jobs etc. That was the appeal and it got him elected.


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