Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

They’d have to make all the C’s into D’s because C units are less than average, and generally underperform.

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

That's the thing with making new units. It's going to shift thing down just by adding things (and even if you improve older units, like say Dund, that's going to shift other units down). It's a necessary evil, and while you can minimize it, there's no eliminating it.

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

Abduct is indeed in line with those abilities. Boreos does similar things much less expensively, though, and bonds.

Brontos is definitely a swiss army figure. He's nice for bringing along non-bonding cheerleaders, even if with his movement you're usually not getting them much farther than you could just by activating them themselves. And he is pretty good in some matchups - notably against small/medium armies that depend on positioning, especially heroes, and against ranged commons. I could definitely see putting him in a draft pool as a counter to things like Mezzos.

However, Whomp's negative ability is kind of harsh when trying to use him as a legitimate hero-killer. With just 3 attack, whiffs are going to happen, and they can get costly. And he's terribly vulnerable to both ranged specials, and to massed melee commons. Looking at the B- tier: would you pick Brontos against 8 Deepwyrm Drow? How about against three crypt guardians (or two and two chainfighters)? Ashigaru Yari is probably an unfair comparison, but they easily defeat Brontos. Going up into the B tier, you encounter stuff like Vipers, which is obviously a very bad loss for Brontos. I don't think he takes his points down against a standard gladiator build.

How about big hitters in that ballpark? G&R isn't apples to apples because G&R bonds, but beating him doesn't get you out of B- anyway. Maratuk is a B and of course she crushes Brontos in a fight, but that's a bit unfair as well since that's Marutuk's job. Shurrak versus Brontos doesn't make use of either of their toolkits, but I think Shurrak is more efficient 1-on-1, because the Whomp tax feels fairly likely to hit. (I'd be interested in seeing the stats on that one though.) Othkurik and one squad of Greenscales? Feels like a reliable win for the dragon but that's highly map-dependent and can't be just mathed out.

Of course you could flip this around and just cherry pick all the ranged common squads in the B/B- range and point out that Brontos beats those. And he probably does! But that's really the only matchup I like him in, and even then really only if there's something going on in particular that makes Abduct especially good.

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [RotV]: A+ -> B-
Major Q9: A+ -> B-
Deathreavers: A+ -> B-
Zettian Deathwings: B- -> A+

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

If we've learned anything, clearly it's that. :)

Hi, vegie! Sorry we won't see you & your dad this year. Please tell him I said hi.

His Queglix's sweaty, Reav's weak, Kyrie's heavy
There's three heads on the terrain already, bombs from Zetti's
He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready
To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgettin' (to click the right button)


But to keep things focused on unit discussion, I was inspired to use the deathwings from the following video. Might be better than you think.

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

Oh I definitely do think that the Zettians are better than B-. They are a two-man squad, but they have a lot of other things going for them.

-Ranged flying
-Special attack
-5 defense vs. range

Your Arktos synergy with them was very clever. Adjacency attack boosting range is lethal and I don't think that combination is heavily explored yet with Arktos. Arktos is even better than Marcus for this type of use since Arktos himself has a solid ranged attack. I think I'd go B+ for Zettians. Don't think a B- squad could take down Q9 Raelin Rats even assuming they rolled super well so they have to be higher than B-.

To be honest I'm also thinking Q9 has to go down a peg in the ratings to A. VC has pushed out so many Q9 counters over the years: Cultists, Heracles, Marutuk all are better counters to Q9 than anything in original Heroscape. He just doesn't have the potential to sit on a hill unscratchable like he used to.

Incendiborgs maybe go up a peg too to share the A rating with Q9? At this point I'm not sure which one I'd rather take to a Bring Cheese event. I was really impressed by them in both of Tiamat's games in the OHS Bring the Cheese. They are somewhere between Major Q9 and a super version of 1x Mezzos. Major Q23 has jokingly said that Mezzos are A+ but only when playing 1 squad but I think there's some truth in the idea. Redundant Systems and Exoskeletons are substantially better with lower numbers of figures because keeping each figure alive is more significant. And Redundant Systems working against specials and lava and disengage where exo doesn't is huge. A lot of the ways that you can counter range support like Krav or Q9 is running at them and smashing them in, but that's substantially worse against Vulcanmechs since they can weather the storm.

Trying not to overreact as there haven't been that many games played, but I think in general these rankings were done off a lot of theoryscape rather than games. I have more thoughts but I'll finish after the tournament (unless I get excited and want to say more sooner).

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

Incendiborgs are already A.

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

Ah okay. That makes sense. Didn't see that. I'm not sure why Major Q10 is in A up there with the big boys but that's another conversation.

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

Because @dok doesn't really downgrade figures, he feels everyone should get a trophy.

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

Incendiborgs have proven to be really really strong in ohio’s events.

Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
 

I think it's essentially the same conversation as Q9 being an "A", right? absent your arguments for downgrading Q9 from A+, I don't see how you would downgrade Q10 from A. Q10 is really really good, it's just that Q9 outshines Q10 for 30 points more. There are times where Q10's SAs are better than Q9's SA, but it's not all the time and it doesn't make up for 2 more defense.