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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Confred July 6th, 2019 03:15 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JC McMinis (Post 2293569)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 2293274)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2293018)
@McHotcakes negation and flavor basically is the difference. With one marker left, the armor survives after his death a testament to it's toughness.

That is an awesome interpretation.

It is a good interpretation. Also he could be put in a group where another figure could heal him. I know those types.are a little rare but it is possible.

Good point about healing.

It looks like we're coming to a consensus. I'll dig back and confirm against any changes and post up the unofficial card for vote.

Confred July 6th, 2019 03:28 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...8_original.jpg

@McHotcakes is the current design lead.

I move this to a three-thumb vote, including mine (:thumbsup:), needing two more to pass to the Chronicles of Fiction. Should it pass and we later find needed errata/rebalancing, let it be done in the Halls of Reevaluation, which requires no vote for discussion.

Confred (me) has next Design Lead and my submission/nomination is due Friday, July 12.
@CJtheMighty is on deck after me to lead.

Confred July 6th, 2019 06:56 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...0_original.jpg

Tabletop Simulator on Steam!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1794649642

Tornado July 6th, 2019 07:00 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
:thumbsup:

Taeblewalker July 6th, 2019 10:51 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Yea

CJofCourse July 7th, 2019 11:48 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I've been unable to get here daily. And I haven't been here for a long while, going to step back and away from this for even more of a while.

JC McMinis July 7th, 2019 03:55 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
:thumbsup:

Confred July 7th, 2019 08:42 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Video took longer than expected to upload.

Dalinar has passed with three thumbs!

I'll have a design proposal up by Friday.

McHotcakes July 9th, 2019 01:59 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2294522)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuNhNcuQtqM
Video took longer than expected to upload.

Dalinar has passed with three thumbs!

I'll have a design proposal up by Friday.

Sorry I haven't been around lately. My internet was down for a whole week. I hate to miss voting on my own nomination so I'll give him a :thumbsup:

Also one small note I thought of. For the official card I think he should be medium 6. The figure appears fairly large and he is 7 ft plus with the armor so it would make sense thematically.

Also nice video @Confred

Confred July 9th, 2019 11:55 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes (Post 2294973)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2294522)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuNhNcuQtqM
Video took longer than expected to upload.

Dalinar has passed with three thumbs!

I'll have a design proposal up by Friday.

Sorry I haven't been around lately. My internet was down for a whole week. I hate to miss voting on my own nomination so I'll give him a :thumbsup:

Also one small note I thought of. For the official card I think he should be medium 6. The figure appears fairly large and he is 7 ft plus with the armor so it would make sense thematically.

Also nice video @Confred

I'm okay with that!

Confred July 10th, 2019 12:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
i'm still narrowing it down. Nothing is jumping out at me. Top ideas include, Terminator, Kung Fury, John Smith, Darkest Dungeon, PJ Masks, and Guts. So still a bit away

Tornado July 10th, 2019 03:06 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Guts!!!!
C3G is working on some Terminator designs, would love to see what you all come up with.

Confred July 10th, 2019 03:17 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I've decided!

The arrogant Joseph Joestar of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure! (available on Netflix)

https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Joseph_Joestar

Confred July 17th, 2019 04:31 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
JoJo is arrogant and has no problem striking a friend who has slighted him.

He's a master of sleight of hand, capable of pickpocketing and inserting into pockets instantly and undetected.
He often plants his route to victory this way.

He taunts and flaunts to upset his opponents to trick them into making a mistake.
I capitalizes on any mistake made.

his biggest battles are often counter attack after counter attack, never yielding priority until both he is safe and they are defeated.

JoJo utilizes a life magic called hamon, which acts like chakra from Naruto. allowing him to walk on water, climb surfaces.
Hamon is especially destructive versus undead

He uses a technique he uses by name called Hamon Overdrive, which appears to be a + modifier at the risk of later exhaustion. He has used this when he was too tired to used casual hamon, so the expense must be at end of turn.

JoJo will infuse items with hamon and plant it with his sleight of hand mastery
he's a master of deception and misdirection

Confred July 17th, 2019 04:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
JoJo is from a show about succession, his family fighting immortal vampires. The first season featured his grandfather or great uncle and season 3 isn't available on Netflix, but he's an old man and there are 6 seasons or so.

I doubt this aspect of the character will be represented in this design.

Confred July 21st, 2019 04:08 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
JoJo does it for the glory and thus Jandar. He is six and a half feet tall and thus Medium 5.

power brainstorming, not intended to keep all of them:

Run and Think
Once per round, JoJo may add 2 to his Move. If he does, he must end his movement unengaged and he adds 1 to his Attack and Defense until the end of your next turn.

Genuis Counter Defense
When attacked with a normal or special attack, may roll the 20-sided die. If roll 12 or higher, may add 1 to JoJo's Defense and roll again. If roll 11 or less, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

Sleight of Hand Genius
At any time during any figure's movement, JoJo may move a Treasure Glyph from his card to the Army Card of an adjacent figure or move a Treasure Glyph from the Army Card of an adjacent figure to this card.

Hamon Special Attack
Range 6. Attack 2.
If the defending figure is Undead or has a Treasure Glyph on its Army Card that was placed there by JoJo's Sleight of Hand Genius, count each skull rolled twice.

Hamon Overdrive
JoJo may add 2 dice to his Hamon Special Attack. If he does, he receives a wound at the end of turn.

Taeblewalker July 21st, 2019 06:52 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
If you use the last two powers, I recommend 6 life.

Confred August 1st, 2019 10:05 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
[deleted post]

CJofCourse August 2nd, 2019 10:05 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Oh. Deleted huh? Good job getting me here at any rate lol. Good luck on Jojo, watching that show right now actually. I like run and think, don't think wounding himself with hamon is very thematic per say, but I can see it. Personally I don't like treasure glyph synergies since they are so underused. They only really come into play when the character brings a treasure glyph themself. Throughout the show JoJo uses string quite a bit, his future stand even resembles string. I would like to see that incorporated in some way, maybe subtracting from the opponent's stats if he rolls high enough. "Your next line is..." could be used to see an order marker. Just some more ideas to flood the pool, back to lurking I go. GLHF

Confred August 3rd, 2019 06:41 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CJtheMighty (Post 2301169)
Oh. Deleted huh? Good job getting me here at any rate lol. Good luck on Jojo, watching that show right now actually. I like run and think, don't think wounding himself with hamon is very thematic per say, but I can see it. Personally I don't like treasure glyph synergies since they are so underused. They only really come into play when the character brings a treasure glyph themself. Throughout the show JoJo uses string quite a bit, his future stand even resembles string. I would like to see that incorporated in some way, maybe subtracting from the opponent's stats if he rolls high enough. "Your next line is..." could be used to see an order marker. Just some more ideas to flood the pool, back to lurking I go. GLHF

Great ideas! My next draft is super wonky and I definitely want it workshopped, but here is the first draft:

RUN AND THINK
Instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. If he doesn't end this movement engaged, move one of your order markers to his Army Card.

MISDIRECTION GENIUS
At any point before, during, or after moving, JoJo may move an unrevealed order marker from his Army Card to the Army Card of an adjacent figure. That figure's controller can't look at it. Then, at any point during that figure's turn, you may reveal the order marker. If it's numbered, subtract that number of dice from its next roll or if the roll is a 20-sided die roll, subtract that number from its result. If it's Order Marker "X" negate a special power of that figure until end of turn.

ELABORATE COUNTER STRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal or special attack, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure. Then after dealing damage and before taking damage, JoJo may roll defense dice an additional time and all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure. Count all shields rolled when blocking damage.

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...7_original.jpg

CJofCourse August 3rd, 2019 06:59 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I dunno how often 2 dice will come into play for a counter strike. And survivability is pretty low even with 6 life, I'd go 5 life (still above the average human) and 3 defense

Confred August 4th, 2019 04:33 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CJtheMighty (Post 2301366)
I dunno how often 2 dice will come into play for a counter strike. And survivability is pretty low even with 6 life, I'd go 5 life (still above the average human) and 3 defense

Using those ideas, I've removed much the wonk but kept some main concepts:

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...9_original.jpg

SECRET TECHNIQUE
Instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. If he doesn't end this movement engaged, move one of your order markers to his Army Card.

TRICKY WIT DEFENSE
When rolling defense dice, JoJo has the Tricky personality and may reveal an unrevealed order marker from his card or from the Army Card of the attacking figure. If it's a numbered order marker, add that number of dice to JoJo's Defense. If it's the Order Marker "X" all excess shields rolled count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

HAMON OVERDRIVE
Once per round, after taking a turn with JoJo, he may take an additional turn. After that turn, remove an unrevealed order marker from his Army Card. If he can't, instead remove 1 wound from his card.

CJofCourse August 4th, 2019 10:54 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I like it, I like it a lot.

Confred August 10th, 2019 01:53 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
JoJo is now available on Steam/Tabletop Simulator

Playtested him and he's fun to play. His abilities work well together and he's versatile.
However, in source, the more down on his luck, the more he seems to pull out. In this version, he's best when he's already ahead. There may be no cure for that, but it's worth mentioning.

He performs high, but I am unsure of 270 high. I think I saw a C3G file on Steam - I may test him against heroes.

Dalinar, when tested against him performed at 310 Points. His power level was oppressive.

Confred August 10th, 2019 01:23 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
SECRET TECHNIQUE
Instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. If he doesn't end this movement engaged, move one of your order markers to his Army Card and unreveal it.

This change would give his tricky defense much more functionality, but I fear it would draw out fights and make them unfun, but then again JoJo keeps the fight going and this would renew those valuable resources.
Currently the red text isn't added in and I'm not sure it should be, but behold I present the idea to the group.

Edit: It's growing on me and makes sense both mechanically and thematically.

Confred August 10th, 2019 06:02 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
TRICKY WIT DEFENSE
After rolling defense dice and before taking damage, JoJo may reveal an unrevealed order marker from his Army Card or from the Army Card of the attacking figure. If it's a numbered order marker, JoJo rolls that number of additional defense dice. If it's the Order Marker "X" all excess shields rolled count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

HAMON OVERDRIVE
Once per round, after taking a turn with JoJo, he may take an additional turn. After that turn, remove an unrevealed order marker from his Army Card. If he can't, instead remove 1 wound from his card.

SECRET TECHNIQUE
Once per game, instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. If he doesn't end this movement engaged, move one of your order markers to his Army Card and unreveal it.

By making Secret Technique once per game, he doesn't automatically use it every first order marker of the game. It also keeps it a "secret" until it's used. He may kite once, but he shouldn't be kiting the entire game.

Confred August 16th, 2019 01:17 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
This is the current mock of the design.

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...r_original.png

Good: He plays fun.
Bad: He doesn't play like the official character.
Edit: Also, 270 is too high
Edit: On Overdrive, minor language tweak: "If he can't" --> "you"

JC McMinis August 17th, 2019 08:18 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
He does seem a little wonky. Especially with all his abilities being based on order markers.

Confred August 17th, 2019 11:25 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JC McMinis (Post 2306086)
He does seem a little wonky. Especially with all his abilities being based on order markers.

Good feedback. It sometimes takes a third party to identify wonky.

Although, JoJo should have some wonk because he's all about, "Here! Oh, you thought that was it? Will look over there, because in the other direction is actually it, but only partially because the full it is right BAM"

Confred September 3rd, 2019 02:02 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...r_original.jpg

Based on feedback, all three powers have had jankiness reduced:


TRICKY WIT DEFENSE

After rolling defense dice and before taking damage, choose one:
• JoJo rolls 3 additional defense
dice.
• JoJo counts all excess shields he
rolled as unblockable hits on the
attacking figure.
• Reveal all order markers on the
Army Cards of the attacking figure.

HAMON OVERDRIVE
Once per round, before taking a turn with JoJo, you may remove a wound marker or an additional order marker from this card. If you remove an order marker, count all skulls rolled twice when attacking with JoJo this turn.

SECRET TECHNIQUE
Once per game, instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. During this movement, JoJo can't be attacked for leaving an engagement and can move through all figures.

Confred September 6th, 2019 11:37 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I playtested him once against a 500pt Kurrok army using the new wording.

The play is much smoother and Tricky Wit Defense remains just as "tricky" and a whole lot less wonky.

Hamon Overdrive has a memory issue, however. It may require removing order marker, if numbered, attack bonus, if X, regenerate. As is, you clearly know when he overdrives for attack, but it's pretty easy to forget if he healed.

Secret Technique was never used, but it was a button that was always on my mind. So, that's okay.

270 Points seems high, but he handily took out the 500pt Kurrok army.

;
HAMON OVERDRIVE
Once per round, before taking a turn with JoJo, you may reveal and remove an unrevealed order marker from this card. If you remove a numbered order marker, remove a wound from this card. If you remove the "X" order marker, count all skulls rolled twice when attacking with JoJo this turn.
;
Thoughts?

Confred September 17th, 2019 09:38 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I would like to get this guy wrapped up by Friday.

Here is the most current Army Card mock-up. I'll put in some playtesting tomorrow.
https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...tar_382171.jpg

Confred September 19th, 2019 01:36 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
He crushes squads. I'm not 100% sure on Hamon Overdrive regeneration cost. Perhaps if it removed two wounds? But he's close to being done.
https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...tar_572890.jpg
In this latest version, instead of revealing all markers, he reveals the next one. More thematic.
-Edit: Healing reflects the order number.

TRICKY WIT DEFENSE
After rolling defense dice and before taking damage, choose one:
• JoJo rolls 3 additional defense
dice.
• JoJo counts all excess shields he
rolled as unblockable hits on the
attacking figure.
• Reveal the next order marker on the
Army Cards of the attacking figure.

HAMON OVERDRIVE
Once per round, before taking a turn with JoJo, you may reveal and remove an unrevealed order marker from this card. If you remove a numbered order marker, remove that number of wounds from this card. If you remove the "X" order marker, all skulls rolled count for one additional hit when attacking with JoJo this turn.

SECRET TECHNIQUE
Once per game, instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. During this movement, JoJo can't be attacked for leaving an engagement and can move through all figures.

JC McMinis September 21st, 2019 06:46 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
SECRET TECHNIQUE
Once per game, instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. When moving with Secret Techniqu, John may move through figures without becoming engaged and never takes leving engagement attacks.

Confred September 21st, 2019 07:08 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Version 1 update:
TRICKY WIT DEFENSE
After rolling defense dice and before taking damage, choose one:
• JoJo rolls 3 additional defense dice.
• JoJo counts all excess shields as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.
• Reveal the next order marker on the Army Cards of the attacking figure.
• Move a Treasure Glyph from this card to the Army Card of the Attacking figure.
• Move a Treasure Glyph from the Army Card of the Attacking figure this card.

HAMON OVERDRIVE
Once per round, before taking a turn with JoJo, you may reveal and remove an unrevealed order marker from this card. If you remove a numbered order marker, remove that number of wounds from this card. If you remove the "X" order marker, all skulls rolled count for one additional hit when attacking with JoJo this turn.

SECRET TECHNIQUE
Once per game, instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. During this movement, JoJo can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

Version 2 -possible alternative.
LAYERED GENIUS ATTACK
When rolling attack or defense dice, JoJo may immediately remove an unrevealed order marker from his Army Card to reroll any of his attack or defense dice. He may continue removing order markers and rerolling dice until there are no order markers to remove.

COUNTER STRIKE EXPERT
After rolling defense dice, JoJo counts all excess shields as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

SECRET TECHNIQUE
Once per game, instead of attacking, JoJo may move an additional time. JoJo can't end this movement adjacent to any enemy figure and after moving, places all your unused order markers on this card.

Confred September 24th, 2019 10:47 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
This card represents the most current version. He has three wordy powers that encompass his characters, but the wordiness is a problem.
https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...tar_498878.jpg

Hamon Overdrive and Secret Technique are both source references and useful, but out of the three these aren't the meat of this figure. This alternative condenses those to Disengage and keeps one wordy power.
https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ing_171111.jpg

Taeblewalker September 24th, 2019 11:52 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Looks great; condenses things but in a good way. Good show!

Confred September 25th, 2019 11:25 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 2316144)
Looks great; condenses things but in a good way. Good show!

Yes, the condensed version is growing on me.
Next is to playtest to pin down its Points. I arbitrarily lowered it by 40 to account for the removal of regen, but he may be even cheaper.

JC McMinis September 28th, 2019 01:25 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Apologies again, real life struck once more. I got a promotion at work and have pulled 66 hours per week the last 2 week's. Just got a new router though, hoping to catch up on the cards this weekend.

That being said I like the condensed version as well.

Confred October 7th, 2019 09:58 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I expect to playtest before Friday to confirm stats/wording.

I'm still not sold on Tricky Wit Defense - mainly because the name isn't a reference to the series.

Confred October 13th, 2019 06:27 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
After playing a few practice games, JoJo holds up. His points are right due to his durability and ranged/special counter attack.

Disengage is deceptively strong with him. It allows him to dominate positioning.

He works well, I'm still not sold on the name "Tricky Wit Defense" but that's not stopping me from moving this to vote:

With my ThumbsUp, two more thumbs progress this card design to the books.
:thumbsup:

@CJtheMighty you're next.
@Barry allen you're on deck.

Taeblewalker October 13th, 2019 09:59 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Yea

JC McMinis October 14th, 2019 12:49 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
What about just Tricky Defense

Confred October 14th, 2019 09:57 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JC McMinis (Post 2323519)
What about just Tricky Defense

My design philosophy: The more complicated the power, the more unique it should be.

Tricky Defense should be reserved for a more vanilla power.

Tricky Wit Defense has a good enough ring, but preference would be a show reference, a phrase.

Sleight Of Hand Genius, etc

Also, to be the stickler, thumbs must be emojis

CJofCourse October 15th, 2019 08:29 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I believe I stepped awa...know what, I'm back. I'll get to thinking on it.

I also propose a slight change to Tricky Wit Defense, whatever it's name ends up becoming.

"Reveal the next Order Marker on the Army Card of the attacking figure" -> "Reveal an/all Order Marker/s on the Army Card of the attacking figure" As thematic as "next" is, it isn't seen in classic scape iirc, being that players aren't required to order their order markers. It's been a while since I read the rules, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Confred October 16th, 2019 11:05 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CJtheMighty (Post 2324127)
I believe I stepped awa...know what, I'm back. I'll get to thinking on it.

I also propose a slight change to Tricky Wit Defense, whatever it's name ends up becoming.

"Reveal the next Order Marker on the Army Card of the attacking figure" -> "Reveal an/all Order Marker/s on the Army Card of the attacking figure" As thematic as "next" is, it isn't seen in classic scape iirc, being that players aren't required to order their order markers. It's been a while since I read the rules, please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's indeed not in classic 'scape yet. It's a bend of AotP wording, but also a reference to the source material of this figure, so maaybe it gets a pass?
Edit: found a way?

• A player of your choice reveals their lowest numbered unrevealed order marker.

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ing_889747.jpg

Knox October 17th, 2019 03:20 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
This thread is absurdly long. Any list of finished figures/ cards? I grew up as a reader - anything from Eragon, Ranger's Apprentice, LOTR? That'd be dope

Confred October 17th, 2019 05:17 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox (Post 2324884)
This thread is absurdly long. Any list of finished figures/ cards? I grew up as a reader - anything from Eragon, Ranger's Apprentice, LOTR? That'd be dope

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=54243

And feel free to join the discussion

And and, if you want, I could add you to the designers rotation.


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