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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

machinekng December 12th, 2010 09:15 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Inigo Montoya
Fights for Einar

Human
Unique Hero
Duelist
Dedicated
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 6
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 5


MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 17
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die before removing him. If you roll a 17 or higher, ignore all skulls rolled by the attacking hero. You may add 2 to the die roll for each wound marker on this army card.

YOU KILLED MY FATHER
At the start of the game, choose one opponent's unique hero. When attackingthe chosen hero with Inigo, you mayroll two additional dice.

PREPARE TO DIE!
When rolling defense dice against an attack from a single adjacent attacking figure, all excess sheilds count as unblockable hits on the opposing figure.

fix'd

Taeblewalker December 12th, 2010 10:01 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
The only thing I would say is to just make the first power a straight 11 or higher, regardless of how many wounds he has.

Balantai December 13th, 2010 02:12 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1289942)
Inigo Montoya
The Princess Bride
Movies/Literature
Fights for Einar

Human
Unique Hero
Duelist (I think this might be too specific. Why not just fighter?)
Dedicated (I think Driven might be a bit better)
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 6 (Seems a bit too high. I'd rather 5.)
Range 1
Attack 4 (I guess 4 is okay, but I think 3 might be a bit more thematic)
Defense 5 (Five defense seems a bit much. Is his defense really that good. Maybe it's that good versus another swordsman, but what about everything else?)


MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 17
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die before removing him. If you roll a 17 or higher, ignore all skulls rolled by the attacking hero. You may add 2 to the die roll for each wound marker on this army card.
(Seems a bit too complicated. Why not just allow the roll to occur when he recieves enough wounds to be destroyed and lower the roll? In other words, I like what Taeblewalker suggested.)

YOU KILLED MY FATHER
At the start of the game, choose one opponent's unique hero. When attacking the chosen hero with Inigo, you mayroll two additional dice.
(I'm not sure 2 additional dice is necessary. Do we really want Inigo rolling 6 attack dice (7 with height)?)

PREPARE TO DIE!
When rolling defense dice against an attack from a single adjacent attacking figure, all excess sheilds count as unblockable hits on the opposing figure.
(What the theme behind allowing Inigo to counter Special Attacks? What makes him better than anybody else that has a traditional Counter Strike? I think this is unnecessary.)
fix'd

See my comments in red.

My suggestion:
PREPARE TO DIE!
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, you may roll 2 additonal defense dice. All excess shields count as unblockable wounds on the attacking figure.

Then you could recude his defense to 3 and still keep the theme of Inigo being an expert swordsman.

Taeblewalker December 13th, 2010 04:57 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
There is definitely a scene in the movie where Inigo shows Counter Strike, but as you say, Balantai, we don't know how he would fare against dragons and robots.
I rather like Move 6 myself. I prefer Duelist, but I also like Driven.

I also like the idea of adding two dice to attack the six-fingered man, which is reminiscent of Sir Denrick's bonus, which I think is appropriate. However, I can agree with your revised Attack and Defense, and with your addition of 2 defense dice when defending against a normal attack from an adjacent figure.

Balantai December 13th, 2010 05:19 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 1290545)
There is definitely a scene in the movie where Inigo shows Counter Strike, but as you say, Balantai, we don't know how he would fare against dragons and robots.
I rather like Move 6 myself. I prefer Duelist, but I also like Driven.

I also like the idea of adding two dice to attack the six-fingered man, which is reminiscent of Sir Denrick's bonus, which I think is appropriate. However, I can agree with your revised Attack and Defense, and with your addition of 2 defense dice when defending against a normal attack from an adjacent figure.

Three attack plus two versus the Six-Fingered man and three defense plus two versus adjacent normal attacks would still make him a situational 5 attack / 5 defense. In my opinion, this fits his theme pretty good.

dfonse December 13th, 2010 05:33 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think that he should have 2 defense because he has little armor. But, maybe a +3 defense against melee? Or, if you do not like such a small defense stealth dodge to defend against range. Maybe add

Prepare to Die: When Inigo Montoya is engaged with 1 enemy add 2 to his defense. When rolling defense all additional wounds count as unblockable hits.

This way he has counter strike AND gets a bonusacent to only one figure.

machinekng December 14th, 2010 12:01 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Inigo Montoya
The Princess Bride
Movies/Literature

Fights for Einar

Human
Unique Hero
Duelist
Driven
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 6
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 3


MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 11
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die before removing him. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore all skulls rolled by the attacking hero.

YOU KILLED MY FATHER
At the start of the game, choose one opponent's unique hero. When attacking the chosen hero with Inigo, you may roll two additional dice.

PREPARE TO DIE!
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, you may roll 2 additonal defense dice. All excess shields count as unblockable wounds on the attacking figure.

Okay, here's the most recent draft after working in peoples' suggestions

For now, i'm going to keep the Six move. We see Inigo running a lot in the movie, mainly chaing people down, and I think that 6 move is more useful for Inigo's role. In effect, he is an assasain character, whose goal to kill one particular enemy unit. Six move allows him to hunt that unit down.

Taeblewalker December 14th, 2010 12:38 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think he looks pretty good. I agree that 6 Move is more appropriate for a lightly armored hero who has more in common with Samurai and Ninja than with Knights and such.

Pumpkin_King December 14th, 2010 03:47 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
This is a good thread. I like this thread.

I had an idea for Agent Smith, but I never got around to making the card.

Hrockle December 14th, 2010 07:36 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1291081)

MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 11
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die before removing him. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore all skulls rolled by the attacking hero.

I thought it would be wounds, not skulls. Did we talk about this and I just missed the discussion?

Taeblewalker December 14th, 2010 11:10 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrockle (Post 1291196)
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1291081)

MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 11
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die before removing him. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore all skulls rolled by the attacking hero.

I thought it would be wounds, not skulls. Did we talk about this and I just missed the discussion?

It should be wounds, to be consistent with Stealth Armor.

mac122 December 14th, 2010 11:10 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrockle (Post 1291196)
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1291081)

MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 11
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die before removing him. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore all skulls rolled by the attacking hero.

I thought it would be wounds, not skulls. Did we talk about this and I just missed the discussion?

That's a good question. Wouldn't ignoring skulls make Prepare to Die stronger? Or was that the point? If so, then IMO that makes Prepare to Die too powerful.

Taeblewalker December 14th, 2010 11:11 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1291271)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrockle (Post 1291196)
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1291081)

MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 11
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die before removing him. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore all skulls rolled by the attacking hero.

I thought it would be wounds, not skulls. Did we talk about this and I just missed the discussion?

That's a good question. Wouldn't ignoring skulls make Prepare to Die stronger? Or was that the point? If so, then IMO that makes Prepare to Die too powerful.

With the wording in the first sentence, that becomes moot. Nonetheless, for proper wording, it's "wounds."

Balantai December 14th, 2010 12:37 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1291081)
Inigo Montoya
The Princess Bride
Movies/Literature
Fights for Einar

Human
Unique Hero
Duelist
Driven
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 6
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 3

MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 11
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die before removing him. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore all wounds from the attackskulls rolled by the attacking hero.

YOU KILLED MY FATHER
At the start of the game, choose an one opponent's Unique Hero. When attacking the chosen hero with Inigo Montoya attacks the chosen figure, you may roll two additional dice.

PREPARE TO DIE!
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, you may roll 2 additonal defense dice and all excess shields count as unblockable wounds on the attacking figure.

Great write up. I'm loving Inigo.

Suggested wording changes in red.

Balantai December 14th, 2010 12:46 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King (Post 1291176)
This is a good thread. I like this thread.

I had an idea for Agent Smith, but I never got around to making the card.

Welcome, Pumpkin King. The more the merrier. Unfortunately, Agent Smith has already been drafted and created. You can find his stats on the first page of this thread. But almost everyone else in the fictional universe is still available.

In order to design, you need to contribute to this thread. If you put your two cents in on everyone else's design, I'll add you to the bottom of the design team. Again, welcome.

Pumpkin_King December 14th, 2010 12:53 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1291356)
Welcome, Pumpkin King. The more the merrier. Unfortunately, Agent Smith has already been drafted and created.

*cough*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai
In order to design, you need to contribute to this thread. If you put your two cents in on everyone else's design, I'll add you to the bottom of the design team. Again, welcome.

Yup, yup. I came in late for Inigo; reading back a few pages, everything I was going to say has been said. I'll wait until the next one is put forward to add any suggestions.

Lamaclown December 14th, 2010 12:56 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1291356)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King (Post 1291176)
This is a good thread. I like this thread.

I had an idea for Agent Smith, but I never got around to making the card.

Welcome, Pumpkin King. The more the merrier. Unfortunately, Agent Smith has already been drafted and created. You can find his stats on the first page of this thread. But almost everyone else in the fictional universe is still available.

In order to design, you need to contribute to this thread. If you put your two cents in on everyone else's design, I'll add you to the bottom of the design team. Again, welcome.

Actually, I believe PK was referring to Agent Smith from The Matrix rather than Agent J from MIB played by Mr. Smith. :)

I really like the way Inigo is shaping up. I agree with the wording changes by Balantai as well.

EDIT: :ninja:'d by PK

Balantai December 14th, 2010 01:06 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King (Post 1291362)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1291356)
Welcome, Pumpkin King. The more the merrier. Unfortunately, Agent Smith has already been drafted and created.

*cough*

Oh, thaaaaaaaaaaat Agent Smith. :unsure:

wulfhunter667 December 14th, 2010 04:24 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I agree Indigo is shaping up nicely. I do have this though. Originally, "My Name" had a condition of add 2 to the roll for each wound marker when it was at 17. I must have missed something. Where did that go? I think it actually is more interesting than the just plain old 11 up there now. Plus it adds flavour to the figure while maintaining game balance. Not to mention, it's just plain cool. ;)
Just my :2cents:.

Balantai December 14th, 2010 05:25 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667 (Post 1291584)
I agree Indigo is shaping up nicely. I do have this though. Originally, "My Name" had a condition of add 2 to the roll for each wound marker when it was at 17. I must have missed something. Where did that go? I think it actually is more interesting than the just plain old 11 up there now. Plus it adds flavour to the figure while maintaining game balance. Not to mention, it's just plain cool. ;)
Just my :2cents:.

I'm not entirely opposed to changing it back, but I do think it's just unnecessarily complicated. Why is he less likely to die if he has more wounds? Isn't he just portrayed as "hard to kill"?

Taeblewalker December 14th, 2010 07:48 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think the problem with the old way is that you would be tempted to do a weird sort of meta-game thinking where you hope he gets a little bit hurt before he gets hit with real dice.

If anything, in the movie, the scene where he comes back from being hurt can be modeled as regeneration like the Troll.

wulfhunter667 December 14th, 2010 09:28 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 1291842)
I think the problem with the old way is that you would be tempted to do a weird sort of meta-game thinking where you hope he gets a little bit hurt before he gets hit with real dice.

If anything, in the movie, the scene where he comes back from being hurt can be modeled as regeneration like the Troll.

Not so much regeneration as just bad-a$$-itude. He gets hit, what, 3 good times and comes back to whoop that boy's such-and-thus all over the banquet hall.
That's the flavour I was talking about, but it's not a make or break for me.

Balantai December 15th, 2010 12:12 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667 (Post 1291932)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 1291842)
I think the problem with the old way is that you would be tempted to do a weird sort of meta-game thinking where you hope he gets a little bit hurt before he gets hit with real dice.

If anything, in the movie, the scene where he comes back from being hurt can be modeled as regeneration like the Troll.

Not so much regeneration as just bad-a$$-itude. He gets hit, what, 3 good times and comes back to whoop that boy's such-and-thus all over the banquet hall.
That's the flavour I was talking about, but it's not a make or break for me.

It sounds more like the theme should be, "...the most wounds Inigo Montoya may take from an attack is one...". You could even leave in the current prevent destruction mechanic, but I would increase the roll if we added this first part.

EDIT: I don't particularly think there's anything wrong with this version, though.

Balantai December 16th, 2010 12:15 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Current version:

Inigo Montoya
The Princess Bride
Movies/Literature
Fights for Einar

Human
Unique Hero
Duelist
Driven
Medium 5

Life 4
Move 6
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 3
Cost: 100

MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA 11
When Inigo receives enough wounds to be destroyed by an attack from an adjacent unique hero, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore all wounds from the attack.

YOU KILLED MY FATHER
At the start of the game, choose an opponent's Unique Hero. When Inigo Montoya attacks the chosen figure, you may roll two additional dice.

PREPARE TO DIE!
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, you may roll 2 additonal defense dice and all excess shields count as unblockable wounds on the attacking figure.

Pumpkin_King December 16th, 2010 02:30 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
As I feel that I can't contribute any more to the conversation, I whipped up this.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...tuff/inigo.jpg

Balantai December 16th, 2010 02:36 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Awesome looking card, PK.

Just a reminder:
Phase 4: Voting Stage
When the designer feels that the card is ready for creation, he may propose to finalize the card. To finalize the card, there needs to be approval (thumbs up) from a majority of the active designers. After the card is finalized, the next designer in order is activated and the process resets.

machinekng December 16th, 2010 04:18 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Here's my :thumbsup:.

Balantai December 16th, 2010 04:46 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Does that mean you're proposing for it to be finalized? :twisted:

machinekng December 16th, 2010 05:03 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1293882)
Does that mean you're proposing for it to be finalized? :twisted:

Yes. I feel that the design has met my goals for Inigo.

Balantai December 16th, 2010 05:17 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Well I love him, Machinekng. :thumbsup:

Lamaclown December 16th, 2010 05:25 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
:thumbsup:
Why oh, why does my playtest list have to be so long? :cry:

Of course, nothing says I have to go in order ;)

Taeblewalker December 16th, 2010 05:55 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I am willing to give it a thumbs up.

mac122 December 16th, 2010 06:20 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
:thumbsup:

Nice job everyone!

Pumpkin_King December 16th, 2010 07:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
:thumbsup: , as if it means anything.

EDIT: Coming from me, that is.

Balantai December 16th, 2010 07:52 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Let's get 1 more thumbs up and we'll move on the dfonze's pick.

EDIT: I put the cost tentitively at 100 pts.

wulfhunter667 December 16th, 2010 09:14 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm good too. :thumbsup: Let's keep the ball rolling. Next! ;)

Balantai December 17th, 2010 12:32 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Go ahead and make your pick, dfonze.

Taeblewalker December 17th, 2010 01:22 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'd been away from this thread for a while, but now that I got back into it and have been contributing more, I would like to be on the design list. I promise I'll pull my weight on the next few like I did for Inigo. ;) My reasons for not doing much before, honestly, is that I am simply not familiar enough with any of the characters that have been done before him. I know "who" the doctor is, and Buffy, but I didn't really have quite enough of handle on them to say much (now Angel, I could do). I have a friend who plays Castlevania and tells me about it, but I never played it myself.

Balantai December 17th, 2010 01:30 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 1294687)
I'd been away from this thread for a while, but now that I got back into it and have been contributing more, I would like to be on the design list. I promise I'll pull my weight on the next few like I did for Inigo. ;) My reasons for not doing much before, honestly, is that I am simply not familiar enough with any of the characters that have been done before him. I know "who" the doctor is, and Buffy, but I didn't really have quite enough of handle on them to say much (now Angel, I could do). I have a friend who plays Castlevania and tells me about it, but I never played it myself.

Glad to have you on board. I added you to the end of the rotation.

On a related note, even if someone isn't familiar with a design, you can certainly contribute. We will always need help with wording, costing and suggestions. Maybe you can't accurately portray theme, but that doesn't mean you can't give suggestions. The people who understand the theme can make that decision.

Lamaclown December 17th, 2010 02:04 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 1294687)
I'd been away from this thread for a while, but now that I got back into it and have been contributing more, I would like to be on the design list. I promise I'll pull my weight on the next few like I did for Inigo. ;) My reasons for not doing much before, honestly, is that I am simply not familiar enough with any of the characters that have been done before him. I know "who" the doctor is, and Buffy, but I didn't really have quite enough of handle on them to say much (now Angel, I could do). I have a friend who plays Castlevania and tells me about it, but I never played it myself.

Glad to have you on board!

killercactus December 17th, 2010 02:21 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Wow - how have I missed this thread.

I'll be keeping an eye out and participating as much as I can. Maybe one day I'll be a designer, because I have a million ideas of stuff to design.

Balantai December 17th, 2010 02:23 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 1294733)
Wow - how have I missed this thread.

I'll be keeping an eye out and participating as much as I can. Maybe one day I'll be a designer, because I have a million ideas of stuff to design.

Well I'm glad you found us, killercactus. Stick around and you'll be a designer in no time.

dfonse December 19th, 2010 07:41 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
:thumbsup: You have my vote!

Taeblewalker December 19th, 2010 08:55 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
So who's the next character going to be?

Balantai December 20th, 2010 12:28 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Did you miss that it is your turn, Dfonse?

We'll give him until 12:00 PM PST and if he doesn't make his pick, we'll move on to Knights of Weston's pick.

Balantai December 20th, 2010 06:13 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Knights of Weston,

Please go ahead and make your pick. Please reference the first page for posting instructions.

Balantai December 21st, 2010 04:54 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
And we had so much momentum...:?

Pumpkin_King December 21st, 2010 04:58 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Haha. Just wait until KoW gets to this thread or choose the next person.


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