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-   -   Diplomacy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53767)

kevindola April 27th, 2020 04:53 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiusx (Post 2375682)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2375671)
Reviewing the map, but pretty sure SEV is too weak and that France(Had he made a couple of different moves with the idea of going for the solo in this final move), should have been able to solo.

Even if that army in Den gets over to protect Sev, it becomes a guessing game at holding Rum or Sev eventually.


Thing is, even in a slightly better iteration France isn't able to get fleets Black Sea, Armenia, and east Bulgaria to take one of SEV or RUM until 1903. By that time, I have fleets swarming all over the western waters, including a guaranteed fleet in MAO threatening any number of supply centers depending on where France chooses to station defenses.


-scorp

This, too, was what I saw. Not sure if I'm in error there, but I could not guarantee SEV/RUM before TUN/POR/SPA would be under attack at the same time, meaning a coin flip ending at best.

I did not try for the beg Austria to give me a solo tactic as has been alluded to, so maybe I should have gambled on that.

I could have built more fleets though in earlier years to prevent that, so that's one thing I could have played differently, but I think I would have had some splainin to do to the Lady of the Island.

edit:
@quozl I saw you peaking. Is it time to come back? Maybe @wriggz too?

quozl April 27th, 2020 04:55 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
OK, I'm in for the next one.

Kinseth April 27th, 2020 04:57 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiusx (Post 2375682)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2375671)
Reviewing the map, but pretty sure SEV is too weak and that France(Had he made a couple of different moves with the idea of going for the solo in this final move), should have been able to solo.

Even if that army in Den gets over to protect Sev, it becomes a guessing game at holding Rum or Sev eventually.


Thing is, even in a slightly better iteration France isn't able to get fleets into Black Sea, Armenia, and east Bulgaria to take one of SEV or RUM until 1913. By that time, I have fleets swarming all over the western waters, including a guaranteed fleet in MAO threatening any number of supply centers depending on where France chooses to station defenses.


-scorp

Negative, had France just used Alb to take Greece instead of ION. He builds F(Bre) and F(Mar), he can have ION to NAF to support MAO and have you stalemated there.

Kinseth April 27th, 2020 05:02 PM

Re: Conclusion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiusx (Post 2375674)
CLOSING THOUGHTS
Some people might have thought that one of us should have gone for the solo at different points of the game, but the key is that we were incredibly meticulous in planning our troops out in a way where we would have no great opportunities to stab the other. Creating stalemate lines, voicing concerns about our existing weak points and how to patch them up, etc. To me, it seems like a solo win should be incredibly difficult in games full of strong players, where people aren't easily manipulated. While I have a lack of experience in this game, I don't think I am necessarily an easy player to manipulate, and even though I would often defer to France's plans of attack, I kept a watchful eye to make sure I wasn't getting taken advantage of and stood up for myself when needed to, and France did the same when I asked a bit too much of him.
-scorp

Solo's are very difficult, you got that right, even harder in games where there are really good players.

The great thing about diplomacy, is that each game is unique unto itself. What worked in one game, doesn't always work in another.

Think of motivation, this game you were motivated to just get a good score(2 way draw), next game you might say screw it, I want that elusive solo, play it the same way with your ally and in the end make a run for it.

:) That is why I love this game.
@Dad_Scaper you've seen a bunch of Dip yourself, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

kevindola April 27th, 2020 05:03 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
If I use Albania for anything other than support I lose Trieste. That drops my odds to 0% I think

scorpiusx April 27th, 2020 05:04 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2375687)

Negative, had France just used Alb to take Greece instead of ION. He builds F(Bre) and F(Mar), he can have ION to NAF to support MAO and have you stalemated there.


Cool story. Without the Albanian support of Trieste, He also risks me stabbing him from Budapest to Trieste with support from Vienna and Serbia in this timeline, which is an auto-win for me. Obviously I didn't do that, but it's not like it was such an obvious move. On top of that, he now has an opening along Serbia that I can exploit even if I don't happen to stab him for the victory first. Hindsight is 20/20.



-scorp

quozl April 27th, 2020 05:05 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
What's the final map look like?

scorpiusx April 27th, 2020 05:10 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
http://uk.diplom.org/maps/splashpad.gif?map=0.533154




I am England (Dark Blue) and kevindola is France (Turquoise).


-scorp

Kinseth April 27th, 2020 05:14 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiusx (Post 2375693)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2375687)

Negative, had France just used Alb to take Greece instead of ION. He builds F(Bre) and F(Mar), he can have ION to NAF to support MAO and have you stalemated there.


Cool story. Without the Albanian support of Trieste, He also risks me stabbing him from Budapest to Trieste with support from Vienna and Serbia in this timeline, which is an auto-win for me. Obviously I didn't do that, but it's not like it was such an obvious move. On top of that, he now has an opening along Serbia that I can exploit even if I don't happen to stab him for the victory first. Hindsight is 20/20.



-scorp

I mean yeah sure, Trieste could have been lost, but why would you have thought Trieste would have been exposed and you'd make a play for it.? You would have just assumed it was protected.

scorpiusx April 27th, 2020 05:18 PM

Re: Conclusion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2375691)
Think of motivation, this game you were motivated to just get a good score(2 way draw), next game you might say screw it, I want that elusive solo, play it the same way with your ally and in the end make a run for it.


Indeed, I would be very interested in winning a solo in Diplomacy at some point, as I imagine it gives a fantastic feeling of accomplishment. That being said, it is all dependent on the context of the map. I'll always shoot for the best score I think I can confidently manage without getting greedy. I don't know much about baseball, but I reckon I would take a guy that gets on base every time he goes up to bat instead of a guy that hits a home run say 1 out of 6 times, gets on base another 1 out of 6 times, and strikes out the other four times.


Diplomacy is war, and in war the objective isn't always to win, but it's always not to lose.



-scorp

Kinseth April 27th, 2020 05:19 PM

Re: EOG Statement Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiusx (Post 2375272)
To be honest, I thought Germany was played by a newer player, and in that regard I kind of didn't want to crush a new player like I had been crushed my first go round so early out of the gate, plus a new player is less likely to stab a (slightly) more experienced ally.

Too funny, I was trying to play this at the beginning like I was one of the newer players in the game.

Since everyone thought I was Turkey, my plan worked... well it worked too well HA!

Kinseth April 27th, 2020 05:25 PM

Re: Conclusion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpiusx (Post 2375701)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2375691)
Think of motivation, this game you were motivated to just get a good score(2 way draw), next game you might say screw it, I want that elusive solo, play it the same way with your ally and in the end make a run for it.

I don't know much about baseball, but I reckon I would take a guy that gets on base every time he goes up to bat instead of a guy that hits a home run say 1 out of 6 times, gets on base another 1 out of 6 times, and strikes out the other four times.


-scorp

Not sure I know what you mean, are you being specific about anything or anyone?


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