Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Cowardly Cavalier forces him to not MAKE them, meaning every figure may leave engagement with him without worrying about disengagement strikes.

I feel like he would be fine at 100.

:thumbsup:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Me too.:thumbsup:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Barring extensive playtesting, I agree with 100 points.
After this is over, I will probably make a thread with all of the major characters, and some of the secondary characters.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I really like him. What mini did you decide to use. We will need to link it to his post.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Are we good on Eric, then?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Desert of Desolation Merchant Guard.
http://miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/155171

And as far as I'm concerned, KC, you can give us your custom idea.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Wow. Reading fail on my part. Sorry am late to the party, but here's mine too. :thumbsup:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

OK - I'm gonna give this a shot. If we need to go back to Eric, we certainly can.

I couldn't find a traditional mini for this figure. If anyone can, I'm open to suggestions. I'm not sure if the Lego figure I linked scales, but knowing the size of the little lego guys, I think it should. It would just need mounted, and a little red on it's mouth.

Figure - Rabbit of Caerbannog (otherwise known as the Killer Bunny)
Media - Movies: Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail
Figure
Wiki

I want the Rabbit to look harmless at first, but then be able to tear through anything that approaches it (heroes or squads) with it's big, pointy teeth. It should be a guard. I'd think he'd be able to attack multiple figures per turn, and probably be able to leave engagements somehow since he jumps from knight to knight sometimes without killing them.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Good choice. I'll save detailed commentary til later. For now, here's an alternate figure idea.
http://www.gamesempire.com.au/index....productId=5083

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Awww. My favorite comedy of all time. You just have to love Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail.

As far as posting your draft, I'd like to leave that off until everyone gets a chance to post some ideas. Now I know what you're thinking..."Help, help. I'm being repressed!". But this is just how we run things here in the Heroes of Fiction thread. :D

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Supreme Executive Power..... never mind. I took it down.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

No worries. :D

Who knows. Maybe you'll see something you really like from us and decide to put that on the card instead.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Wow. Nobody wants to help out poor KC with some ideas? You guys are slackin'. :twisted:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The Killer Rabit

I'd love to see some sort of fear aura. Maybe the aura is active only when there is a revealed order marker on it's card. That way it shows how everyone is afraid once he starts his rampage.

Maybe some sort of leaping special attack. Something that shows his attack at the throat of one of the knights in the movie. Where he seems to fly for about 20 feet before he attacks.

Otherwise, I see his defense and life pretty low. I can see him with high attack, though. Maybe 5 or even 6.

I think a cool power name would be: Look at the Bones

Here's a draft that I came up with:

The Killer Rabit
Movie: Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

Rabit
Unique Hero
Creature
Viscious
Small 1

Life 3
Move 3
Range 1
Attack 5
Defense 3

IT'S ONLY A RABIT
If there are no revealed Order Markers on this card, The Killer Rabit may not be attacked by a non-adjacent figure. You may only take a turn with The Killer Rabit after revealing an Order Marker on this card.

LOOK AT THE BONES
If there is at least 1 revealed Order Marker on this card, all opponent's figures within 5 spaces of The Killer Rabit must subract 2 from their defense.

LUNGING SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
Before attacking, choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of The Killer Rabit and place The Killer Rabit on any space adjacent to the chosen figure. The Killer Rabit does not take leaving engagement attacks when moved due to Lunging Special Attack.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

How did I miss this!

Great choice, KC. When I saw it I soiled my armor I was so excited!

As far as jumping from knight to knight how about something like this...

LETHAL SPEED (or SHARP POINTY TEETH)
Instead of moving and attacking normally the Rabbit of Caerbannog may move using Lethal Speed. When moving with Lethal Speed the Rabbit may move up to X spaces. Roll 1 unblockable attack for each figure he becomes engaged with while moving with Lethal Speed to a maximum of X figures. The rabbit may not attack the same figure more than once when using Lethal Speed. The Rabbit of Caerbannog never takes leaving engagement attacks when moving with lethal Speed.

Really roughly worded but I hope you get the idea. If he has Disengage as an ability you could drop the last line. He probably shouldn't be able to attack more than 2 figs when moving with this; he could take out 50-66% of a squad in one move with this ability.

Anyhow, something to get the ball rolling.

EDIT:
Love the fear aura idea with LOOK AT THE BONES as a name for it.:thumbsup:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

"Brave Sir Lama ran away! Bravely ran away, away! When danger reared it's ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled..."

I'd like to see it attack all adjacent figures or all figures within a certain range, friend or foe. LC's Lethal Speed Sharp, Pointy Teeth is headed the right direction.

It should have an ability giving it an advantage against adjacent attackers. Maybe extra defense dice against adjacent attackers combined with Counter Strike.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

How about a power that's called "Nasty Big Point Teeth".

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Wow - lots of good ideas in a little amount of time. Thanks everyone!

About the fear aura - I agree that Look at the Bones is a great title for it, but I don't like it for this figure. The reason is that no one really IS afraid of it until it's too late - they just think it's a harmless bunny until their head is detached on the ground.

Having said that though, I like Balantai's idea of somehow not allowing it to be attacked until the attacker realizes it's a ferocious beast with nasty big point teeth. That inspired me to try a slightly different take on it that I really think captures the theme of the killer rabbit - no one is afraid of it until it's too late, and it guards the entrance to the cave viciously.

Rabbit of Caerbannog
Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail
Valkrill
Unique Hero
Rabbit
Guard
Ferocious
Small 1
Move: 6 (it is a rabbit, after all)
Range: 1
Attack: 6
Defense: 2
Life: 6
Points: ??

What, Behind the Rabbit?
If the Rabbit is unengaged, it may not be attacked by a non-adjacent figure unless that figure began it's turn adjacent to the Rabbit.

Territorial
The Rabbit may never make leaving engagement attacks.

Leaping Nasty Sharp Pointy Teeth Special Attack
Attack:5 Range:Special
You may choose any Small or Medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of the Rabbit whose bases are not more than 5 levels above or below the Rabbit's base to be affected by Leaping Nasty Sharp Pointy Teeth Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Affected figures roll defense dice separately.

What, Behind the Rabbit? I really like because it captures the theme of what happened in the Holy Grail - the Knights didn't attack it from range until they engaged it and ran away because they thought it was just a harmless bunny. However, I think it's ok to attack from range if you can see it ripping the head off of one of your friends.

Instead of the Special Attack, I considered some sort of first strike attack where, if an adjacent figure tries to attack it, it can leap at it's throat first. That way, it will be very tough to kill at melee no matter how many figures are there, just like the movie. I don't know if that will translate well into Scape though - I think I just like this better.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think that the rabbit should have an ability that makes it hard to hit. Maybe like counterstrike were it engages in opponent from an unengaged position. In the movie king Arthur and his knights all charged but none could hit him. The rabbit did leap from man to man but it was out of defense.

Also, maybe he should have a special like the AE's drop where he starts at any place in the map and anybody that moves with in 3-6 spaces gets hit with an engagement strike.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I could add a Meier defense boost and / or engagement strike to Territorial....

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Personally, I don't really like the current version of Territorial. Maybe because we just put that power on our last card. I think and engagement strike would work great for it, though.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

For What Behind the Rabbit, how will it work with area of effect special attacks?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I would say the same way that it works for, say, Pelloth or a glacially adjacent Dzu-teh who is next to a target of DW9K. It would get caught in the blast.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Something like this?
What, Behind the Rabbit?
If the Rabbit of Caerbannog is unengaged, it may not be targeted for a normal attack from a figure that is not adjacent.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

A little wonky wording, since unengaged means that it is not adjacent to any attacking figure. Also, it allows it to be shot by a normal attack if it is engaged with a different figure. Is that what you meant?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Yes. If one of my troops is getting his head bitten off by the Rabbit, my other troops should be able to take a shot at it. King Arthur foolishly kept his other soldiers out of the battle with the Rabbit, preferring to save them for the final confrontation with the Taunting French. Had there been an archer or two at the cave, the Holy Hand Grenade may have been unnecessary. :D This also addresses the area of effect specials.


BTW, the original wording allowed for a non-adjacent figure to attack an engaged Rabbit as well:
Therefore, if the Rabbit is engaged, a non-adjacent figure can attack it.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sounds good to me. I also like the idea of Engagement Strike 8.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I still want What, Behind the Rabbit? to allow a figure that began it's turn adjacent to the Rabbit to run away and shoot it, so I'd like to keep the "unless the attacking figure began it's turn adjacent to the Rabbit" in there. That's why I made Terratorial prevent leaving engagement attacks.

However, it seems perfectly within the theme of both the unit and the power to give it a version of Engagement Strike with it. Maybe just add this to the end of Terratorial - "When an opponent's small or medium figure moves adjacent to the Rabbit, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 8-19, that figure receives 1 wound. If you roll a 20, that figure is destroyed.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I really like that. :twisted:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

What is the theme behind this?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The Knights engaged the Rabbit, couldn't kill it, yelled "Run Away!!!", and then threw a grenade at it. The Rabbit didn't chase them.

I want Heroscape figures to be able to engage it, fail, and then run away and shoot it without being attacked as they leave.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

what if on territorial 8-18=1 wound
19= the rabbit gets a free attack on each hostile adjacent figure and 20 destroys the offending figure and the rabbit moves into it's space

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Welcome, Neo. Thanks for posting your suggestion. There is one flaw with your power, though. Figures do not take attacks when it is not their turn. It creates looping and possible strings events in the middle of an opponent's turn someone else's turn. It's why you see so many unblockable attack dice being rolled instead of an attack on a defensive power.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Okay. I see what you're trying to do now. It feels a bit odd, though. Maybe we can create a Holy Hand Grenade Equipment Glyph that would bypass Special Powers? This way you don't need to restriction of allowing a figure to attack the rabbit from range only if they were engaged previously in the turn.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I can see this being a case where a glyph/unit combo is in order. The glyph should read, "Thou shalt count to 3, not going on to 4 . 5 is right out! Nor goest thou to 2, save to proceedeth directly to 3. Chooseth thou a figure in 3 clear sight spaces, and rolleth thou 5 attack dice against it."

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

:rofl:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I have a good idea.

Killer Rabbit

Life 5
Move 6
Range1
Attack 1
Defense 2

Territorial: The killer rabbit does not start the game on the battlefield. At the start of each round, before you place order markers, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher you may place the killer rabbit anywhere on the battlefield on any empty space. You cannot place the killer rabbit within five clear sight spaces of enemy figures. THe killer rabbit may not move more than five spaces away from that place. While the killer rabbit is within 2 spaces of the space the rabbit gains 5 attack. If an enemy figure is on that spot the rabbit gains 9 attack instead of 5.

Behind the rabbit: An enemy figure may not be attacked by a unit that has been attacked by the rabbit, been inflicted wound by the rabbit or been in a squad that has had another figure been destroyed by the rabbit.



Stay away: When an opponent figure(s) enters a space that is both 3 spaces from the rabbits territorial position and 5 spaces from the rabbit roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 place one wound on the enemy figure and place the killer rabbit adjacent to that figure. If the killer rabbit destroys that figure place the killer rabbit on the space the destroyed figure was standing on.

This works because the killer rabbit was not aggressive in the movie (attack of 1). All the rabbit did was defend its position.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

So, where are we at on this?

I actually like "What, Behind the Rabbit?" with mac's wording change to address area special attacks.

The whole "targeted for an attack by a non-adjacent figure" does seem redundant since "unengaged" means all opponent's figures are non-adjacent.

How about...

It seems very clean and simple to understand to me. I am not against the idea of a special glyph to go with the rabbit but if we can keep it more simple than that I think that would be best.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

So if you want to leave engagement with it, you can attack it from afar.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Yeah, I believe that was KC's original intent.

That was his reasoning behind the Territorial ability/weakness of the rabbit not being able to take leaving engagement strikes against figures. It gives the opponent the option of running away and then firing on the rabbit.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

One more time, trying to take everyone's comments and ideas into consideration:

Rabbit of Caerbannog
Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail
Valkrill
Unique Hero
Rabbit
Guard
Ferocious
Small 1
Move: 6
Range: 1
Attack: 6
Defense: 2
Life: 6
Points: 180

What, Behind the Rabbit?
If the Rabbit is unengaged, it may not be attacked unless the attacking figure began it's turn adjacent to the Rabbit.

Territorial
The Rabbit may never make leaving engagement attacks, and may only attack figures it was engaged with at the start of its turn. Whenever a non-flying figure moves adjacent to the Rabbit, immediately roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 8-17, that figure receives 1 wound. If you roll 18 or higher, that figure is destroyed.

Mean Streak a Mile Wide
When the Rabbit inflicts a wound with its normal attack, it may attack again. The Rabbit may continue attacking until it does not inflict a wound, but may not attack the same figure more than once.
________________________

First off, I cleaned up the wording on What, Behind the Rabbit?. I agree that "non-adjacent" was redundant. Next, I added the bit to Territorial to include a modified version of Engagement Strike, which I really liked. I did limit it to "non-flying" figures, because I felt like it needed some kind of limitation, and fliers should be able to avoid the leaping sharp pointy teeth fairly easily.

I also included a clause that the Rabbit can only attack figures that began the Rabbit's turn adjacent to it to further accentuate the point that it really is just a guard and won't pursue anyone of Level 4 or below... I mean, that isn't trying to get past it. This gives the opponent's the first chance to attack the Rabbit, provided that they can get past the initial leap of doom when they engage it. And yes - the Rabbit will attack friendly figures with Territorial. It doesn't care who you are - if you come into it's lair, you'll become more bones to look at.

Lastly, I felt that the Rabbit should still be able to jump around and attack anything next to it, so I added Mean Streak to address this. In the movie, he doesn't always kill what he leaps at before he leaps somewhere else, so I allowed him to keep attacking as he inflicts wounds.

EDIT: And yes, TW, that was my original intent. Lamaclown is exactly right.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I love the Munchkin card game! :D

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I fear that we might be trying to push too much theme into this card. I think we might be able to accoplish the rabbit's teritorial nature without som many restrictions.

First, I think we should reduce the movement. The reduced movement would show that he very seldom moves far from his cave. He's not really shown as a fast creature until he is one the offensive. Keeping him as an innocent bunny until he's engaged or within range of an attack seems pretty thematic to me.

"What, Behind The Rabbit" is pretty good. I like the them of them having to have to run away from him if they want to attack him with a non-adjacent attack.

Territorial has potential, but currently, I think it is too complicated. There's too much stuff going on in one power. How about:

Territorial
When an opponent's figure becomes engaged with the Rabbit of Caerbannog, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 - 18, place 1 wound marker on the figure's card. If you roll a 19 or higher, destroy that figure. Figures may only be targetted by Territorial when they first become engaged. The Rabbit of Caerbannog may not make leaving engagement attacks.

For Mean Streak a Mile Wide, I think I'd rather see a Special Attack that allows the rabbit to lunge. That was one of the coolest parts of that scene. I'd like to see you be able to choose and opponent's figure within x spaces and place the rabbit adjacent to him. Attack with the special attack and choose another figure. Maybe up to 3 times and may not attack the same figure twice. The current version just doesn't capture that theme for me.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I could definitely switch Mean Streak back to some version of Lunging Sharp Pointy Teeth Special Attack. Maybe something like this:

Range: 3 Attack: 5
Choose a figure whose base is no more than 3 levels higher or lower than the Rabbit's base to attack. After the attack, place the Rabbit on an empty space adjacent to the chosen figure, if able. You may then attack a different figure with LSPTSA. The Rabbit may attack up to 4 different figures with LSPTSA per turn. When moving with LSPTSA, the Rabbit will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

It's kinda wordy though, which is why I didn't do something like this in the first place.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Pointy Teeth Special Attack
Range 1. Attack 4.
Choose an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of the Rabbit of Caerbannog whose base is no more than 3 levels higher or lower than the Rabbit of Caerbannog's base. Place the Rabbit of Caerbannog on any adjacent empty space and attack the chosen figure. When the Rabbit of Caerbannog attacks with his Pointy Teeth Special Attack, he may attack with Pointy Teeth Special Attack 2 additional times. You may not attack the same figure more than once in the same turn with Pointy Teeth Special Attack.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Does he get to leap again each time? It kinda sounds like he leaps once and then has to stay there and attack 3 times. It also doesn't let him leap from figure to figure unless he kills what he attacks first.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Pointy Teeth Special Attack
Range 1. Attack 4.
Choose an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of the Rabbit of Caerbannog whose base is no more than 3 levels higher or lower than the Rabbit of Caerbannog's base to attack. Place the Rabbit of Caerbannog on any adjacent empty space and attack the chosen figure. When the Rabbit of Caerbannog attacks with uses his Pointy Teeth Special Attack, he may attack with Pointy Teeth Special Attack use it 2 additional times. You may not attack the same figure more than once in the same turn with Pointy Teeth Special Attack.

Does that clarify your concerns?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think that's ok. Here's an update:

Rabbit of Caerbannog
Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail
Valkrill
Unique Hero
Rabbit
Guard
Ferocious
Small 1
Move: 6
Range: 1
Attack: 6
Defense: 2
Life: 6
Points: 180

What, Behind the Rabbit?
If the Rabbit is unengaged, it may not be attacked unless the attacking figure began it's turn adjacent to the Rabbit.

Territorial
The Rabbit may never make leaving engagement attacks. Whenever a figure moves adjacent to the Rabbit, immediately roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 8-18, that figure receives 1 wound. If you roll 19 or higher, that figure is destroyed. Figures may only be targeted as they move into engagement with the Rabbit.

Pointy Teeth Special Attack
Range: Special Attack: 4
Choose an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of the Rabbit of Caerbannog whose base is no more than 3 levels higher or lower than the Rabbit's base to attack. Place the Rabbit on any adjacent empty space and attack the chosen figure. When the Rabbit of Caerbannog uses his Pointy Teeth Special Attack, he may use it 2 additional times. You may not attack the same figure more than once in the same turn with Pointy Teeth Special Attack. When moving using Pointy Teeth Special Attack, the Rabbit never takes leaving engagement attacks.