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-   -   Diplomacy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53767)

Aldin June 15th, 2018 10:18 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2197058)
I'd also like to note, I love the discussion about diplomacy and love how excited everyone is about it. @Aldin you should join us for the next game!

Like a lamb to the slaughter...:mrgreen:

In truth, I would undoubtedly be a poor player from a personality perspective. I don't think I have what it takes constitutionally to either build an alliance and then betray my ally for a victory or to build an alliance and be betrayed by my ally for their victory. Both would make me feel awful on a personal level.

~Aldin, preferring more clearly defined allies and opponents

Dad_Scaper June 15th, 2018 10:29 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
It is an emotionally exhausting game, Aldin. And at higher levels, it's more - and not less - draining then you make it sound, with your description of having an ally and one stabs the other for a solo.

kevindola June 15th, 2018 11:17 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I'm going to say you should take a pass Aldin. Although another thread for crowd commentary would be fun I bet (although maybe there aren't that many in the crowd actually) I think D_S proposed something like that once upon a time for both viewers and eliminated powers.

D_S do you have any overarching opinions on the game you'd like to share as the admin or just waiting until everyone has said their piece first?

Dad_Scaper June 16th, 2018 09:19 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Thanks for asking, KD!

I did have this question, for one: I am curious why @wriggz did not want to try to defend the position at the end. Has that already been answered somewhere? It's not obvious to me that it was defensible, but there was some play there, I thought. Why not give I and G room to try to hold the line? What good was BRE doing in your hands? It's not like they could ever turn on you, with Austria right there.

Also, I want to make sure everyone saw this.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2197064)
I was looking for a very particular different article when I stumbled across this one, which I think is better. Enjoy.

http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Zine/S200...ttributes.html

There's no one voice to use, to win the game. You need to pay careful attention to detail, which means you need to *get* details, when you can, and you need to figure out what they mean. I believe that is the point at which Kinseth is superior. Being able to write the persuasive press is one thing; reasoning from press received is another. The link in the article gives some helpful pointers, and comparing its comments to your (plural "you," including everybody) own play might be interesting and possibly even helpful.

kevindola June 19th, 2018 01:10 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2196796)
As for the thought that I cannot play with an ally. I mentioned before I played on a site called dip2000.com that is now defunct. I played from about 2003-2016 on the site. This was a very experienced site, games are 1-2 weeks long of emailing and everyone plays knowing who is controlling each country.

The theory that I cannot play in alliances is rubbish, my track record says otherwise(I've posted this in a previous EGS also.) It does say I have been beaten 8 times!


Record in 21 games(Dip2000)
------------------
4 Solo Wins
4 2-way draws(AR, AI, FR, EF)
2 3-way draws
2 4-way draws
1 7-way draws
8 Eliminations

Edit - unsure if you are taking this too personal, or you are just playing diplomacy for the next game.

You have half your Dip2000 solo count already in 1/7 the games here with scapers! I think you're the one playing diplomacy for the next game highlighting these stats ;)

Since we are biding our time for the next installment of EGS or wriggz to comment (I call out wriggz b/c he said he would comment. dok, quozl, and Nukatha might be passing on commentary). How did that 7 way draw come about? I am very curious.

Also, D_S made the comment that our first two games were over relatively quickly. This one went to 1910 which was the longest so far but not overly longer than the first two if memory serves. What's an average range of game years?

wriggz June 19th, 2018 03:51 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2197464)
Thanks for asking, KD!

I did have this question, for one: I am curious why @wriggz did not want to try to defend the position at the end. Has that already been answered somewhere? It's not obvious to me that it was defensible, but there was some play there, I thought. Why not give I and G room to try to hold the line? What good was BRE doing in your hands? It's not like they could ever turn on you, with Austria right there.

After the game I have avoided this thread... to fresh I suppose. I'm at the same time proud, embarrassed, disappointed, relieved, frustrated and happy(?) with the way that game went.


I want to honour the other players with a proper EGS, so one is forth coming, but work has been very demanding of late. This partially explains the early surrender. I was willing to go against Austria and was laying the foundations to get an in, but my vacation took me off the grid more then I expected. By the time I was ready, Italy and Germany seemed ready for surrender. I was not prepared to dedicate the energy to convince them to keep going especially with the back log of work waiting for me in the office.


So I suppose domestic issues lead to England's surrender.

Dad_Scaper June 19th, 2018 03:59 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2197803)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2197464)
Thanks for asking, KD!

I did have this question, for one: I am curious why @wriggz did not want to try to defend the position at the end. Has that already been answered somewhere? It's not obvious to me that it was defensible, but there was some play there, I thought. Why not give I and G room to try to hold the line? What good was BRE doing in your hands? It's not like they could ever turn on you, with Austria right there.

After the game I have avoided this thread... to fresh I suppose. I'm at the same time proud, embarrassed, disappointed, relieved, frustrated and happy(?) with the way that game went.


I want to honour the other players with a proper EGS, so one is forth coming, but work has been very demanding of late. This partially explains the early surrender. I was willing to go against Austria and was laying the foundations to get an in, but my vacation took me off the grid more then I expected. By the time I was ready, Italy and Germany seemed ready for surrender. I was not prepared to dedicate the energy to convince them to keep going especially with the back log of work waiting for me in the office.


So I suppose domestic issues lead to England's surrender.

Ah, Diplomacy. The only game that leaves wounds "too fresh" for easy conversation afterward.

When you get around to writing, Wriggz, I will say that I don't think you answered my question. As I saw it, Italy and Germany approached you about trying to defend. You seemed unwilling to make any accommodation. And yet, you would have had to do very little in order to let it happen. Italy and Germany - Italy especially, I imagine - were perfectly prepared to be the architects of a defensive line.

Most importantly, you would have had nothing to fear from them. They could never try to attack you, because as soon as they did, their resources would be too thin to defend themselves from Austria, and they would have given up the solo.*

Italy and Germany could have tried to set up a defense, and all you would have had to do is spot-check their analysis to make sure it wasn't dumb and then move your units to where they were supposed to be. Which for many of them was probably nowhere; just provide some support where needed for the I & G units on the front line. Certainly an accommodation such as giving up BRE, so Italy could avoid losing another unit on the front line with Austria, seemed like a small price to pay compared to losing the whole game.

So I am curious for your thoughts about that, when you're able. To be fair, I only read a little of the press and I haven't even read all of these EoGs, but that's what I'm curious about. Apologies if it's been addressed elsewhere.

kevindola June 24th, 2018 02:01 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
As we hit 3 weeks since surrender terms were accepted is it an appropriate time to talk about signups for the next? Assuming DS is still willing of course.

Dad_Scaper June 24th, 2018 02:40 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Sure, my part is easy.

If you want to play again, just say so, and if you've been watching and you're curious to give it a shot, just say so. We'll see if we get 7.

Ranior June 25th, 2018 08:09 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I'm still in for another.

kevindola June 25th, 2018 09:01 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Who else?

1. kevindola
2. Ranior


I suspect this next game wouldn't get going until late July at the earliest for reference of anyone interested in playing.

@scorpiusx
@vegietarian18
@All Your Pie

All Your Pie June 26th, 2018 06:21 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I’ll have to see what my schedule is looking like going forward, but I am tentatively interested in playing next round.

Dad_Scaper June 26th, 2018 08:15 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
If you think you might be interested then you should play. In my opinion. We can (and do) tweak the schedule as we go to accommodate scheduling conflicts.

Kinseth June 26th, 2018 08:40 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I'd play again, but having won the last two games, If there are 7 people interested, I would step aside and let others play.

(I still owe everyone a finished EGS, and well I am leaving on vacation for 1 1/2 weeks come this thursday, so my time has been limited getting work projects finished.)

kevindola June 28th, 2018 10:22 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I am taking liberties

1. kevindola
2. Ranior
3. All Your Pie
4. Kinseth

I do hope some of the EGS do get finished, I have quite a few topics about the game I would like to discuss, but I also don't want to be talking into a vacuum.

quozl June 28th, 2018 11:06 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I was Germany. I don't know if I'll ever get time to do an EGS but feel free to ask me questions.

kevindola July 3rd, 2018 07:28 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2198983)
I was Germany. I don't know if I'll ever get time to do an EGS but feel free to ask me questions.

Who created The Contract?

quozl July 3rd, 2018 01:14 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
You might want to elucidate on that.

kevindola July 3rd, 2018 01:20 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2199851)
You might want to elucidate on that.

The document of numbered rules outlining the alliance between England and Germany.

quozl July 3rd, 2018 01:25 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
That must have been England. I never paid attention to it.

kevindola July 4th, 2018 03:12 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2198983)
I was Germany. I don't know if I'll ever get time to do an EGS but feel free to ask me questions.

In the fall 1904, why did you decide to not take Paris and eliminate France, and instead keep his army around?

kevindola July 9th, 2018 12:19 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
@quozl , still thinking about my last question or you just missed it? If would like no further questions, I can respect that as well.
@wriggz I have lots of question for you as well, but would like to respect your space and desire to post an EGS if that's still in your plans. I will hold my questions for you until after your EGS.

quozl July 9th, 2018 12:29 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
In 1904, I thought we could score big on Italy.

wriggz July 9th, 2018 10:19 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindola (Post 2200506)
@quozl , still thinking about my last question or you just missed it? If would like no further questions, I can respect that as well.
@wriggz I have lots of question for you as well, but would like to respect your space and desire to post an EGS if that's still in your plans. I will hold my questions for you until after your EGS.

Thanks. Work has been a mess for the last few weeks so this has been on the back boiler. I think I may get to it in the next week or so.

kevindola July 10th, 2018 09:03 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2198983)
I was Germany. I don't know if I'll ever get time to do an EGS but feel free to ask me questions.

How was your relationship with Russia early on and communication between the two of you? In a press to me mid-game he mentioned he was going to help Austria win as Austria was the only neighbor who hadn't stabbed him alluding to Turkey, England, and Germany as all having stabbed him in some way. I know the details surrounding Turkey, but I was wondering what the details of that incident were between Germany and Russia.

quozl July 10th, 2018 10:14 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I thought we communicated pretty well. There was no stab, however. I straight up told him I'd be supporting England into Norway before it happened.

Kinseth July 10th, 2018 03:09 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2200623)
I thought we communicated pretty well. There was no stab, however. I straight up told him I'd be supporting England into Norway before it happened.

Do you regret doing so?

What moves would you have changed throughout the game(not a specific move, just general moves?)

What frustrated you the most in the game?

quozl July 11th, 2018 05:35 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Yep, as soon as the results came out. I told Russia I had made a mistake. Unfortunately, I don't think I ever heard from Russia again.

What frustrated me the most was Italy's constant flip-flopping.

kevindola July 12th, 2018 02:27 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Well in the big picture I changed my mind only a few times in terms of who was the biggest threat to defend against: Austria (until ~1904 when England stabbed me) then England/Germany (until ~ 1907 for reasons already detailed) then Austria until the end.

But certainly within the minutiae I changed stories more than that, working with them until England's stab, then working against them, then falsely working with E/G in order to gain the Mid Atlantic and Portugal, and then truthfully working with them to eliminate France and move back against Austria. Then moving against them after the second English stab. Most of it though was in direct response to a stab or clear antagonistic maneuvers. Austria I think would have a much stronger case to complain about my flip-flopping.

Unless it's a comment on my attempt to have a split conversation with Germany in 1908 timeframe where we had a 3 way conversation going with England and a 1 on 1 conversation that had very divergent discussion points. I could see where that would be seen as flip-flopping if the separate conversations were confused as a single one. (Which may explain some of Germany's odd press behavior during that time. not sure)

quozl July 12th, 2018 03:11 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
My odd press behavior was due to me also making deals with Austria at that time.

kevindola July 19th, 2018 11:13 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
@vegietarian18 mentioned again he would be interested but depends on start date. Which might be a while before we can nab a couple more.

kevindola August 6th, 2018 08:44 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2200972)
My odd press behavior was due to me also making deals with Austria at that time.

Who initiated that discussion? And was there more to the deals than the relinquishing of Warsaw?

kevindola September 6th, 2018 11:54 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindola (Post 2198980)
1. kevindola
2. Ranior
3. All Your Pie
4. Kinseth
.

bumping to see if anyone else has renewed interest in another one.

Dad_Scaper September 6th, 2018 12:20 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I hope so. I'm certainly happy to run another one.

Decesare October 19th, 2018 08:00 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
You guys still going? I'm very interested if you want some fresh blood. haha

kevindola October 19th, 2018 08:18 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindola (Post 2198980)
1. kevindola
2. Ranior
3. All Your Pie
4. Kinseth
5. Decesare

@vegietarian18
@quozl
@wriggz

wriggz October 19th, 2018 08:48 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Sorry, I'm out of this one, the last one was so mentally/emotionally demanding. I do love this game (in the way I imagine people love horror movies), and Might return next round.

Kinseth October 19th, 2018 09:01 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2230937)
Sorry, I'm out of this one, the last one was so mentally/emotionally demanding. I do love this game (in the way I imagine people love horror movies), and Might return next round.

LOL!

kevindola January 30th, 2019 09:18 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindola (Post 2198980)
1. kevindola
2. Ranior
3. All Your Pie
4. Kinseth
5. Decesare

@vegietarian18
@quozl


I don't even know if those original signed up 5 are still interested, but I thought I would give it a shot to bump this thread

quozl January 30th, 2019 10:19 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I can run it but don't have time to play it right now.

Kinseth January 30th, 2019 10:25 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I’m really itching to make some new friendships!

Nukatha February 4th, 2019 04:43 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Then why would you play Diplomacy? :p

Ranior February 4th, 2019 05:25 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Perhaps I did something wrong, but I gained a friend playing Diplomacy.

This past summer I attended the World Boardgaming Championships and wound up in a game of Diplomacy. One of the other players in my game it turned out was also from Madison WI. We talked a bit and he started coming to my game group over the past several months and we're now friends.





As for trying to get this little group back together, sadly I'm not really ready to play again right now.

Dad_Scaper February 4th, 2019 05:28 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Well, I'm available whenever.

Nukatha February 4th, 2019 05:52 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I was hoping the :P would make my post read in jest.

Ranior February 4th, 2019 06:47 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukatha (Post 2251800)
I was hoping the :P would make my post read in jest.

I knew that. I just enjoy sharing that story anyhow.

kevindola March 5th, 2019 10:12 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
@wriggz 5 months since you said no, interested again?
@Decesare You still around and willing to play?
@Nukatha and you?

Otherwise I know we have

1) Kinseth
2) Ranior
3) AYP
4) kevindola
5) scorpiusx

vegie18 is probably a no at this time due to time constraints

and no reason not to include others who have played or expressed interest in this thread
@dok @MegaSilver @Zetsubo @marrowick @Spidey'tilIDie

Dad_Scaper March 5th, 2019 10:55 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I'm available to run it again. :)


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