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-   -   The Book of Grim Reaper (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=58630)

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 03:26 PM

The Book of Grim Reaper
 
The Book of Grim Reaper

C3G MARVEL PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 29
NOT WITH THE IN CROWD


http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...aper_comic.png
Comic PDF

http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...eaper_mini.png
Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Avengers set.
Its model number and name are #044 / Grim Reaper.

_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - Eric Williams, the brother of Simon Williams, who later became known as the Wonder Man, was born in Paterson, New Jersey. Eric was always the black sheep of his family. His mother would tell him that he was "born bad" whilst heaping affection on Simon. One day, Eric was playing with chemicals in the garage and caused a fire that burned down their house. Simon felt guilty for having not stopped Eric, and resolved to be responsible for Eric from then on. Eventually, Eric joined the Maggia and moved to Las Vegas; meanwhile, Simon took over the family business, Williams Innovations. Partly due to competition with Stark Industries, Williams Innovations began to fail. Desperate, Simon turned to Eric and his mob ties for help. Simon embezzled money from the company to invest with Eric, but Simon was caught and jailed. Simon was freed from jail by Baron Zemo, induced by an offer of revenge on Tony Stark by defeating Iron Man and the Avengers. Simon was transformed into the Wonder Man in order to infiltrate the Avengers, but Zemo's empowering process also poisoned Simon, ensuring his loyalty in exchange for the antidote. Simon's better nature won out, however, and he died saving the Avengers from Zemo's trap. Learning of Simon's death, Eric was inflamed with guilt and anger. He contacted the Tinkerer who provided him with his scythe weapon. Taking the name the Grim Reaper, he defeated the Avengers, but was beaten by the surprise appearance of the Black Panther. Later, the Grim Reaper confronted the Avengers with his Lethal Legion. The Legion was defeated when the Grim Reaper found himself unable to strike down the Vision, having discovered that he possessed Simon's brainwave patterns.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:Outgoing Synergy:Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:
  • Grim Reaper's Fear the Reaper special power is not triggered by wounding enemy Androids, Constructs, or Undead.
  • As a figure with a secret identity, Grim Reaper interacts differently with these special powers.
  • As an Undead, Grim Reaper interacts differently with these special powers.
  • As a Mastermind, Grim Reaper interacts differently with these special powers.
  • As a Manipulative figure, when Grim Reaper attacks Jewel, she rolls one fewer defense die, due to her Psychological Vulnerability special power.
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 03:26 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
NAME = GRIM REAPER
SECRET IDENTITY = ERIC WILLIAMS

SPECIES = UNDEAD
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = MASTERMIND
PERSONALITY = MANIPULATIVE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 260


LETHAL RECRUITMENT
At the start of the game, you may choose up to four Unique Heroes you control that are Savage or have the Ionic Imbalance special power. For the entire game, the chosen figures have the class of Criminal instead of what is listed on their card.

LETHAL LEGION
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, before taking a turn with Grim Reaper, you may take an immediate turn with a Unique Criminal Hero you control within 6 clear sight spaces of Grim Reaper, and you may not take additional turns with other figures you control. Figures taking a turn with Lethal Legion add 1 to their Attack number for that turn.

FEAR THE REAPER
Adjacent figures without the Fearless personality subtract 1 from their Defense number when defending against a normal attack from Grim Reaper. When Grim Reaper inflicts one or more wounds on an adjacent figure with a normal attack that is not an Android, Construct, Undead, or destructible object, you may remove 1 Wound Marker from this card. Once per round, instead of removing a Wound Marker, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker from that figure's Army Card.

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 03:26 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Comic Pics


Mini Pics


Background

Lord Pyre January 26th, 2021 03:37 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Unfortunately Lethal Legion as-is won't work. We can't specifically turn figures into Terrorists, as that might be broken with an in-sanctum design. I would just go an Avengers route and use markers or something.

I don't know this guy very well aside from the fact that he exists, so thematic questions and concerns I can't help with.

Reaper and Stunner are fairly redundant. He gets a normal attack boost with his Reaper, so he wants to attack. Stunner is something he wants to use instead of attacking. It's not bad per se, but they do conflict.

Cost wise he's probably closer to 200, if even that. I might start him at about 180. Comparing to the Hood, Hood gets double attack, and range. He can only bond when dealing wounds, but he has the bonus of making himself invisible if needed as well. He's 180. Grim Reaper here is just a sidekick with 4 attack and 4 defense. He's not all that scary.

Yodaking January 26th, 2021 03:50 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
You'll have to message me on who On Deck you think he'd be broken with and why.

MrNobody January 26th, 2021 03:53 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I think we can work around that OD design without changing much here. (I believe LP is talking about design #1003.)

Lord Pyre January 26th, 2021 03:57 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrNobody (Post 2444386)
I think we can work around that OD design without changing much here. (I believe LP is talking about design #1003.)

Yep, we'd have to check all of these classes to see. Crossbones is great with him just being a double attacker, something like Wolverine could get real sick real quickly.

MrNobody January 26th, 2021 04:00 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Make Grim Reaper's thing happen after that unit's thing and it doesn't really seem like a problem. They'll play well together, but not any better than any other Terrorist piece would play with #1003.

Lord Pyre January 26th, 2021 04:04 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrNobody (Post 2444389)
Make Grim Reaper's thing happen after that unit's thing and it doesn't really seem like a problem. They'll play well together, but not any better than any other Terrorist piece would play with #1003.

Yeah I just want to make sure a terrorist class change wouldn't be too crazy is all. We can definitely change the power to not have a class change otherwise. I just want to triple check.

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 04:09 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre (Post 2444379)
Unfortunately Lethal Legion as-is won't work. We can't specifically turn figures into Terrorists, as that might be broken with an in-sanctum design. I would just go an Avengers route and use markers or something.

I don't know this guy very well aside from the fact that he exists, so thematic questions and concerns I can't help with.

Reaper and Stunner are fairly redundant. He gets a normal attack boost with his Reaper, so he wants to attack. Stunner is something he wants to use instead of attacking. It's not bad per se, but they do conflict.

Cost wise he's probably closer to 200, if even that. I might start him at about 180. Comparing to the Hood, Hood gets double attack, and range. He can only bond when dealing wounds, but he has the bonus of making himself invisible if needed as well. He's 180. Grim Reaper here is just a sidekick with 4 attack and 4 defense. He's not all that scary.

I see what you mean by Stunner and Reaper conflicting with each other, I could see giving him a short range and rewording Fear the Reaper to work with that. That way he would want to get close enough to use the Stunner, but not have to. The point eval is more so for his ability to heal and bond without dealing damage, like you pointed out probably way off.

Yodaking January 26th, 2021 04:34 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Anywhere in the 180-220 range I think would be pretty good for him in terms of army building, I was worried he'd be seen as much higher with the full bonding, 6 life, and healing. I'm personally super excited about the 1st and 3rd powers here. 2nd Power just gives him an auto-wound option when facing those who are hard to wound or can be used to try and overwhelm the opponent by taking away their OM's while bonding with his own. As such I don't see them as competing but rather some flexibility in attacking different units/army builds. 1st power then makes him an OM hub for, and recruiter of, Terrorist. Which puts him in the leadership role rather than sidekick. 3rd power helps keep him alive if he's attacking, so he would be a front line leader. He's only a mid tier leader though and as such he teams up well with other leaders in this corner of C3G. Lots of exciting army building opportunities here.

OG Legion: Grim Reaper, Swordsman (Fighter), Man-Ape (Fighter?), Atlas (Imbalance), Living Laser (Criminal)
Brothers Breaking Bad: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man (Imbalance), +3 Criminals/Mercs
Morally Grey Brothers: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man, Wolverine (Fighter), Moon Knight (Fighter), Swordsman
West Coast Redemption: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man, Tigra (Fighter), Thing II (Fighter)
Viper joins the Legion: Grim Reaper, Viper (Terrorist), Batroc (Merc), Pile Driver (Criminal), Bulldozer (Criminal)
Grim goes to Madripoor: Grim Reaper, Viper, Silver Samurai (Merc), Wolverine, Crossbones (Terrorist)
Hydra Adjacent: Grim, Viper, Crossbones, Gorgon, Absorbing Man (Criminal), Baron Von Strucker,
Hydra & the Hand: Grim, Viper, Elektra (Assassin), Hand Ninja x2, Gorgon, + Criminal/Merc/Terrorist
Full Hydra: Grim, BVS, Hydra Agents x3, Gorgon, Crossbones, + Criminal/Merc/Terrorist
Skull and the Legion: Grim, Red Skull II, Crossbones, Living Laser, Swordsman
Legion Masters Team-Up: Grim, Crossbones, Baron Zemo, Whirlwind (Criminal) + 3 Criminal/Merc/Terrorist

I haven't spent this much time thinking about fun armies I could build in a long time.

tcglkn January 26th, 2021 04:36 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I still feel that calling out 3 classes and a special power is too much.

Yodaking January 26th, 2021 04:40 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrNobody (Post 2444389)
Make Grim Reaper's thing happen after that unit's thing and it doesn't really seem like a problem. They'll play well together, but not any better than any other Terrorist piece would play with #1003.


Okay, I see what the concern is now. I wasn't really too worried about #1003 because he only chooses one Terrorist, but opening that up to a wider range of units wasn't something I was thinking much about. I agree the easiest solution would be to just have Grim add the class of Terrorist to units after #1003 chooses one, but I'm not sure how to word that. Don't want to mess with Viper's counting of Terrorist for the initiative boost power.

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 05:04 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yodaking (Post 2444395)
Anywhere in the 180-220 range I think would be pretty good for him in terms of army building, I was worried he'd be seen as much higher with the full bonding, 6 life, and healing. I'm personally super excited about the 1st and 3rd powers here. 2nd Power just gives him an auto-wound option when facing those who are hard to wound or can be used to try and overwhelm the opponent by taking away their OM's while bonding with his own. As such I don't see them as competing but rather some flexibility in attacking different units/army builds. 1st power then makes him an OM hub for, and recruiter of, Terrorist. Which puts him in the leadership role rather than sidekick. 3rd power helps keep him alive if he's attacking, so he would be a front line leader. He's only a mid tier leader though and as such he teams up well with other leaders in this corner of C3G. Lots of exciting army building opportunities here.

OG Legion: Grim Reaper, Swordsman (Fighter), Man-Ape (Fighter?), Atlas (Imbalance), Living Laser (Criminal)
Brothers Breaking Bad: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man (Imbalance), +3 Criminals/Mercs
Morally Grey Brothers: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man, Wolverine (Fighter), Moon Knight (Fighter), Swordsman
West Coast Redemption: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man, Tigra (Fighter), Thing II (Fighter)
Viper joins the Legion: Grim Reaper, Viper (Terrorist), Batroc (Merc), Pile Driver (Criminal), Bulldozer (Criminal)
Grim goes to Madripoor: Grim Reaper, Viper, Silver Samurai (Merc), Wolverine, Crossbones (Terrorist)
Hydra Adjacent: Grim, Viper, Crossbones, Gorgon, Absorbing Man (Criminal), Baron Von Strucker,
Hydra & the Hand: Grim, Viper, Elektra (Assassin), Hand Ninja x2, Gorgon, + Criminal/Merc/Terrorist
Full Hydra: Grim, BVS, Hydra Agents x3, Gorgon, Crossbones, + Criminal/Merc/Terrorist
Skull and the Legion: Grim, Red Skull II, Crossbones, Living Laser, Swordsman
Legion Masters Team-Up: Grim, Crossbones, Baron Zemo, Whirlwind (Criminal) + 3 Criminal/Merc/Terrorist

I haven't spent this much time thinking about fun armies I could build in a long time.

These teams sound awesome!

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 05:11 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 2444396)
I still feel that calling out 3 classes and a special power is too much.

Hopefully I can draw you over to the dark side, I think it would be fun, a lot of combinations to try out.

tcglkn January 26th, 2021 05:15 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
We have designs that choose 4 classes for JLA, but the only one that also picks a power is still on deck and only chooses 2 classes with a special power and I think that's much more reasonable :shrug:

IAmBatman January 26th, 2021 09:54 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Fwiw, I'm against including Fighter here. I think a second, more villainous version of Swordsman is completely doable, and I saw the army builds suggested, but none of them sell me on the idea that Thing or Luke Cage or Wolverine is now a terrorist working with HYDRA and the like.

If the goal is for him to be someone who works with Heroes and Villains both, that's cool, but branding a bunch of Heroes as Terrorists doesn't really work for me thematically. :2cents: So if you want a Hero/Villain faction bridge, I'd base it on a different class.

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 10:16 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2444435)
Fwiw, I'm against including Fighter here. I think a second, more villainous version of Swordsman is completely doable, and I saw the army builds suggested, but none of them sell me on the idea that Thing or Luke Cage or Wolverine is now a terrorist working with HYDRA and the like.

If the goal is for him to be someone who works with Heroes and Villains both, that's cool, but branding a bunch of Heroes as Terrorists doesn't really work for me thematically. :2cents: So if you want a Hero/Villain faction bridge, I'd base it on a different class.

I see where you are coming from on this, Thing and Luke Cage have never technically joined HYDRA, Wolverine on the other hand has worked with HYDRA on more than one occasion.
HYDRA has been know to work with heroes without them really knowing like Cap and the such. I wouldn't mind making another Wolverine based on his time in HYDRA either if this does not fly.

tcglkn January 26th, 2021 10:19 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I'm definitely in favor of dropping Fighter here and just adding Swordsman and Wolverine later.

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 10:21 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 2444446)
I'm definitely in favor of dropping Fighter here and just adding Swordsman and Wolverine later.

I'm feeling like that is the general consensus, I don't mind making more characters :p

IAmBatman January 26th, 2021 10:22 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Likewise. I think Fighter just muddles the design, especially if they keep their Fighter class and synergies.

japes January 26th, 2021 10:28 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I agree on not liking fighter here.

Also I'm very much against the "in addition to what is listed on their card" Approach. That starts adding too much to track and Balance. Luke Cage and Wolverine getting both Terrorist and Fighter synergies for instance. Not to mention the combos of Criminal and Terrorist and Mercenary and Terrorist. Working together is fine but getting both benefits is dangerous usually.

IAmBatman January 26th, 2021 10:34 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
It'd definitely be a lot easier to test and control without worrying about stacking faction bonuses.

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 10:42 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I'll have to think on that one, losing Viper's benefits would kinda suck

Xael Raymand January 26th, 2021 10:42 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I know the Ionic Imbalance thing is supposed to be for Erik Josten (Atlas) but that version of his character was from his time with the Thunderbolts. Did he have an Ionic Imbalance issue when he was powerman that was ever mentioned? I know it comes up a ton when he is Atlas.

Was Simon Williams (wonder Man) ever a member of the legion willingly?

Dr. Jekyll January 26th, 2021 10:54 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xael Raymand (Post 2444453)
I know the Ionic Imbalance thing is supposed to be for Erik Josten (Atlas) but that version of his character was from his time with the Thunderbolts. Did he have an Ionic Imbalance issue when he was powerman that was ever mentioned? I know it comes up a ton when he is Atlas.

Was Simon Williams (wonder Man) ever a member of the legion willingly?

That power call out was more so for Wonder Man, and he was part of Grim Reaper's 3rd Lethal Legion in Dark Reign as well as them both have a love hate relationship. As far as Erik goes, that is a good question and I am not exactly sure on that one.

Xael Raymand January 26th, 2021 10:58 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Jekyll (Post 2444454)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xael Raymand (Post 2444453)
I know the Ionic Imbalance thing is supposed to be for Erik Josten (Atlas) but that version of his character was from his time with the Thunderbolts. Did he have an Ionic Imbalance issue when he was powerman that was ever mentioned? I know it comes up a ton when he is Atlas.

Was Simon Williams (wonder Man) ever a member of the legion willingly?

That power call out was more so for Wonder Man, and he was part of Grim Reaper's 3rd Lethal Legion in Dark Reign as well as them both have a love hate relationship. As far as Erik goes, that is a good question and I am not exactly sure on that one.

No worries, just curious. I know heís always had a bad relationship with Simon (West Coast Avengers). Iíve only read Dark Reign Avengers didnít realize he was part of the Lethal Legion during that time.

japes January 26th, 2021 10:59 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Jekyll (Post 2444452)
I'll have to think on that one, losing Viper's benefits would kinda suck

coincidentally, that's a figure I was actually worried about.

Splash January 26th, 2021 11:42 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
What about something like this:

Quote:

LETHAL LEGION
At the start of the game you may choose a Unique Hero you control. For the entire game, the chosen figure has the class of Criminal/Terrorist in addition to what is listed on its card. If every Army Card you control has the class of Criminal, Mercenary, or Terrorist, after revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Grim Reaper, you may take an immediate turn with any Unique Hero you control within 6 clear sight spaces of Grim Reaper, and you may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.
It would widen up options (but Wonder Man could still be a shoo-in when playing for theme or "Unique Hero with the Ionic Imbalance special power" could be the first sentence still), while possibly avoiding whatever is in the Sanctum with Terrorist bonding.
Also, I'm not super familiar with the Grim Reaper/Lethal Legion, but is/are this guy/these guys really Terrorist level bad, I thought that was reserved for fascist/HYDRA types.

IAmBatman January 27th, 2021 12:00 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Is it thematic for him to do a lot of recruiting? My (fairly vague) lunchbox impression of this guy is not as one who would be talking Hulk into being a Terrorist.

What if the class change were just for his brother and you rolled with the rest of what you have there?

Splash January 27th, 2021 12:03 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
With Ionic Imbalance
Quote:

LETHAL LEGION
At the start of the game you may choose a Unique Hero with the Ionic Imbalance special power you control. For the entire game, the chosen figure has the class of Criminal in addition to what is listed on its card. If at least four Army Cards you control have the class of Criminal, Mercenary, or Terrorist, after revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Grim Reaper, you may take an immediate turn with any Unique Hero you control within 6 clear sight spaces of Grim Reaper, and you may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.
If we dropped "you control" after the first sentence he could also spoil Wonder Man/Atlas a bit if they are on the other side with an "instead of" and it would save a couple words. Brother Eric drudging up their old reputation or something.

Yodaking January 27th, 2021 12:17 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
That limits army building greatly.

Not seeing the dual class concern. What is the army build you are worried about if Grim makes 4 figures Terrorist in addition to what their current class? If I could see the stacking of synergy at play maybe I'd understand the issue better and agree. Having played Viper quite a bit, I'd welcome being able to build a smaller army and achieve the +5 initiative boost.

Splash January 27th, 2021 12:59 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I don't know of any major synergy issues, the main thing to me is I don't know how thematic it is. From what I've read he and his Legion seem like more get revenge on the Avengers villains without super close HYDRA affiliation and I kinda see him as more of a regular Criminal villain. If we want someone to form a villain to HYDRA pipeline another Zemo might be more fitting, or Silvermane could do it with Criminals, or if we're reaching Count Nefaria or maybe Madame Masque could make Criminals into Terrorists. I am very much looking forward to a G.I. Joe wave, COBRA could totally do that kinda stuff. Doctor Faustus or Doctor Mindbender could probably get anybody. Power Broker might be able to blackmail Criminals for class changes.

If that power idea was used, this edit might open it up a bit more "If at least four Army Cards you control have the class of Criminal, Mercenary, or Terrorist,".
edit: I think that works better, I'll change it to that. Also if Wonder Man and Swordsman were Terrorists, I don't think they would have let them in the Avengers. Actually scratch that, Pietro and Wanda ran around with Mags.

Yodaking January 27th, 2021 01:01 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
One manís freedom fighter is another manís terrorist.

If you've never heard that phrase before, it's because you are too locked into the more recent historical events as defined by 9/11. Both before that, and even since then, people in power have thrown around the label Terrorist at anyone who opposes them. So for a group of Fighters to suddenly find themselves labeled Terrorist by someone else isn't very surprising or off theme.

Don't get so caught up in labels here, Grim making people Terrorist in addition to their current class is simply for mechanical reasons. Pulling together a bunch of different cards is already hard enough here, we don't need to also make the out going synergy cover multiple classes.

The West Coast Redemption team concept that came to me is just that, a redemption story. Wonder Man and Tigra were lovers during their WCA story. Thing teamed up with the WCA for a time. Grim is Wonder Man's brother. Grim comes to Wonder Man and asks him for help with something that is not evil. Wonder Man agrees to give him a second chance, and asks Tigra and Thing to come along and back him up in case everything is not what it seems. They head out, but come under attack by some evil organization intent on stopping them. A TV crew sees the fighting, instantly zeroes in on Grim Reaper, and the coverage then becomes about how some 'terrorist' are attacking an unknown target. They may have been labeled terrorists, but that's not what they are. Tigra and Thing are both still just fighters, which is why they have both classes instead of losing one for the other.

IAmBatman January 27th, 2021 07:54 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
If the class is something where we’re fudging theme just for mechanical hooks, why Terrorist? HYDRA synergy doesn’t really make sense here. Maybe he should just make them Mercenaries or Criminals or Menaces?

Dr. Jekyll January 27th, 2021 10:09 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
If I cut Fighter out, I can just make alternate versions of Swordsman and Wolverine... eventually. I think Criminals and Mercenaries becoming Terrorist is not that unthematic. One is evil in nature while the other is evil for money.

I was going for a double edged sword here where you can make a Lethal Legion army or a HYDRA army, or even a mix of both and still be synergistic. Terrorist is a great class to use in my opinion. Terrorist spread fear, what is scarier that a hero that is now a villain out of no where.

IAmBatman January 27th, 2021 11:03 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Does Grim Reaper have ties to HYDRA?

Xael Raymand January 27th, 2021 11:26 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I know he did in the Avengers EMH show, but I don’t remember ties to Hydra in the West Coast Avengers Run.

Edit: I do remember him being killed and coming back as a zombie where he had to use his scythe to drain life force from people.

Dr. Jekyll January 27th, 2021 11:41 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
He and Space Phantom (as Viper and later Supreme Hydra) ran a HYDRA army yes. In the animated series Avengers EMH he is a lieutenant to BVS along with Viper.

IAmBatman January 27th, 2021 11:43 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Gotcha. There were some questions elsewhere as to whether he really made sense in that faction based on comics history, which is why I was asking. :up:

Would you say that Terrorist is faction that best describes his "lunchbox" identity, then?

Dr. Jekyll January 27th, 2021 11:54 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Yes, I could also see him as a Master Mind as well

Soundwarp SG-1 January 27th, 2021 11:54 AM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
On the Space Phantim stuff, I've read those issues and basically it's just Space Phantom mind controlling a few random Hydra goons while he and Grim Reaper do some inane plot against the Avengers. Reaper only shares like one panel with the Hydra goons were he tries to order them around after the plan stops working and they don't listen because they're keyed only to listen to Space Phantom.

And this is all of three issues (out of 90 something he's been in) and he didn't have a Leathal Legion at the time. So if that's his only connection to Hydra in the comics (what the TV show one does doesn't matter) he doesn't have a connection to Hydra :lol:

IAmBatman January 27th, 2021 12:00 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
See? And that makes me think the Lethal Legion is (factionally) something other than Terrorists.

Dr. Jekyll January 27th, 2021 12:05 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
My original write up was just a Lethal Legion build, making Criminals not Terrorist and no ties to HYDRA.

IAmBatman January 27th, 2021 12:09 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Is that worth revisiting? I don't recall what it looked like exactly.

Yodaking January 27th, 2021 02:56 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
The EMH run does matter to me, you're lying to yourself if you think none of our designs have been influenced by media other than comic book panels. We have a whole CW Team Flash wave coming out soon. If this was year 2 or 3 of C3G and the position was we should first do a purely comic version first and then later someone can do a 2nd card that is influenced by other things I'd be perfectly fine with that. In fact that is exactly what happened. I recall talking about a Grim Reaper card with Bats way back when I first joined up with C3G some 9-10 years ago. I set it aside because people wanted a comic accurate version and I didn't know much about his comic runs. No one has worked on him since. The 10,000 card view is great for guys who already have a card, but realistically Grim is only going to ever get 1 card and that is it. So for this character, a lunchbox design that can fill multiple roles is exactly what I'd want to see out of it.

MrNobody January 27th, 2021 03:09 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
I think what we learned with the CW Flash designs was that tap-dancing between two fairly different versions of a character on the same card muddles the design a lot. I think all those designs were improved when we dropped trying to make them fit both the comics version and the TV version at the same time.

Don't know what Jekyll's passions are here, but I say pick a lane and stick with it. I'm cool with seeing either version of the character, but it seems like trying to mash them together is just going to leave it where neither side is getting the love it deserves.

IAmBatman January 27th, 2021 03:10 PM

Re: The Book of Grim Reaper (Breathing)
 
Yes, I agree. My problem here isn't the Terrorist ties specifically -- it's the feeling that it's trying to do too much at once and its focus feels muddled as a result and most of the proposed versions would potentially have large metagame impacts that just feel unnecessary to me.


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