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-   -   Diplomacy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53767)

Ranior March 20th, 2017 09:17 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2140765)
My preference is the DPJudge. I think it will help, given that most of the volunteers are new to the game, to have a neutral GM available for consultation about the rules and the interface.

Mmm also a very good point. Sounds good to me!

Dad_Scaper March 21st, 2017 01:45 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Ok, I set up a game on the DP Judge. Shoot me a PM and I'll send you some info, including the name of the game, and we can sign start signing up. There will be a bit of a learning curve at the start, for all of us because this is a next-gen judge for me, but we'll get there pretty quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2140741)
I set up this thread to help the conversation along. I do love Diplomacy, but I don't have the burning need to play right now. I'll make some inquiries about what systems the game veterans are using to play online now. I encourage others to do the same, and we'll try to get a platform nailed down.

The more people who are interested in playing the better, because I don't expect that, when push comes to shove, all the listed names will sign up.

edit: Apparently, the cool kids are using this platform, which is the heir to the "Ken Lowe judges" that dominated online Diplomacy a few years ago: http://www.floc.net/dpjudge/

I can GM, which would allow me to help people manage interacting with the judge. Please have a look at it and post your thoughts, or share a different platform you'd prefer. Don't worry about the technical aspects of interacting with the judge; it's quite simple once you're used to it, and you get used to it quickly.


All Your Pie March 21st, 2017 01:50 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Other people were on this before me, so I'll give them a chance to sign up before I go for it.

From a quick read-through the rules, I can already tell I would be missing the more granular aspects of some of the orders, at least at first. Broadly, though, I think I could pick it up after a few mistakes. The presumably-important Diplomacy aspect of Diplomacy I will probably remain bad at, but who knows?

Dad_Scaper March 21st, 2017 02:19 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
It's easy. Army units move one space at a time on land. Fleets move one space at a time one the water and on coasts. All are processed simultaneously. If two units try to move to the same space they bounce. Units can also support other units to hold in place or to move somewhere. You can only support an action in a space you can move to. With support, a unit can overpower a unit that is stationary in, or moving into, a space.

Let's say there's an English fleet in the North Sea and a French fleet in the English Channel. They both move to Belgium. They have equal strength landing there, so they bounce. Let's say instead that the English fleet stays still - holds - while the French fleet tries to enter the North Sea. Both have strength of 1 so it bounces. Movement is simple and intuitive.

There are a couple fancier ways to move. Fleets can convoy armies across water spaces. Dislodged units must retreat. Again, the rules for these advanced forms of movement are intuitive.

Every game year is basically two movement phases, and then at the end of the year there's a reckoning called the build phase, or the adjustment phase. You modify the number of units you have out to match the number of supply centers you control. You start with 3, unless you're Russia with 4, and you win when you get 18.

The challenge is, of course, the diplomacy. Write your neighbors and work with them because you will need their cooperation, before you need their doom.

Just sign up if you're interested. If I don't get 7 I'll say so. If I get more we'll discuss it then.

All Your Pie March 21st, 2017 02:30 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2140858)
It's easy. Army units move one space at a time on land. Fleets move one space at a time one the water and on coasts. All are processed simultaneously. If two units try to move to the same space they bounce. Units can also support other units to hold in place or to move somewhere. You can only support an action in a space you can move to. With support, a unit can overpower a unit that is stationary in, or moving into, a space.

Let's say there's an English fleet in the North Sea and a French fleet in the English Channel. They both move to Belgium. They have equal strength landing there, so they bounce. Let's say instead that the English fleet stays still - holds - while the French fleet tries to enter the North Sea. Both have strength of 1 so it bounces. Movement is simple and intuitive.

There are a couple fancier ways to move. Fleets can convoy armies across water spaces. Dislodged units must retreat. Again, the rules for these advanced forms of movement are intuitive.

Every game year is basically two movement phases, and then at the end of the year there's a reckoning called the build phase, or the adjustment phase. You modify the number of units you have out to match the number of supply centers you control. You start with 3, unless you're Russia with 4, and you win when you get 18.

The challenge is, of course, the diplomacy. Write your neighbors and work with them because you will need their cooperation, before you need their doom.

Just sign up if you're interested. If I don't get 7 I'll say so. If I get more we'll discuss it then.

Oh sure, the basics seem pretty simple to wrap my head around. But if it gets to the point where I'm, say, convoying a unit across a channel to support another unit that's holding a province, I might miss a point where my opponent could easily break that chain somehow, or I might miss a path that would allow me to do something more useful. Or I might not submit my order properly, heh. Basically the sorts of higher level maneuvers a newer player might be expected to miss but I have a bad habit of trying to be a perfectionist.

That being the case, though, I'll go ahead and sign up. PM incoming.

Ranior March 21st, 2017 09:18 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Yeah just sign up. Like all games if it looks interesting, give it a try and accept that your first game is a learning game. You're not going to play perfectly and the quickest way to becoming a better player is to just play and make the mistakes.

Now of course trying to avoid mistakes is still a good plan and all. Just don't sweat it that you might not know everything.

Truly, as you say, the Diplomacy is the most important part anyhow. Plus I'm always willing to help provide you ideas that will lead to your doom you to success. ;)

Dad_Scaper March 21st, 2017 12:48 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Ok, so I'm now giving out the name of the game to those who PM me. I set the game to "private" so people trolling for games can't just hop in, but that may also mean that I have to configure it some other way to allow you to sign up. So let me know if there's a problem signing up to the game.

Tagging @Kinseth , @MegaSilver , @quozl , @Zetsubo , and @dok . I have three PMs so far, so we need 4 more to get started. Send a PM if you're interested.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 01:33 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Ok, I've sent a PM with a game name *and a password*. It might now work.

What's going to happen when there are seven is the game may or may not start automatically. Even if it does, I've set it to "wait." That has the effect of pausing the game, for the purpose of deadlines. The reason why I do that at the beginning is that at the dawn of the game, before S1901M moves, there needs to be a lot of time for players to introduce themselves to their neighbors near and far.

So you'll get about a week for S1901M negotiations. After that, it'll be 3 days for each movement phase, and 1 day (I think) for the minor phases.

Also, after everyone is signed up and the game starts, I'll share the game name here so people can sign up as observers, and if I can, I'll also post images of the game state here.

edit: Good news! One of you signed up. So it's now possible, with the game name and password I sent you.

Ranior March 22nd, 2017 09:40 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Well three powers are signed up now. Looks like we all had the option to choose our country but didn't, so it'll be fun to see what random one I wind up with.

Took me a little while to get the syntax just right for that join command. I figured it out after a few minutes of getting emails informing me of invalid commands though.

Looking forward to the game! Hoping we can get 7 soon. Out of curiosity who has all signed up thus far?

EDIT: Nevermind, it's fairly easy to deduce who has already signed up by looking at the OP and cross referencing with who you sent mentions out to. Thus far it's presumably AYP, kevindola, and myself in the game.

Zetsubo March 22nd, 2017 10:18 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranior (Post 2140991)
Well three powers are signed up now. Looks like we all had the option to choose our country but didn't, so it'll be fun to see what random one I wind up with.

Took me a little while to get the syntax just right for that join command. I figured it out after a few minutes of getting emails informing me of invalid commands though.

Looking forward to the game! Hoping we can get 7 soon. Out of curiosity who has all signed up thus far?

EDIT: Nevermind, it's fairly easy to deduce who has already signed up by looking at the OP and cross referencing with who you sent mentions out to. Thus far it's presumably AYP, kevindola, and myself in the game.

I had similar problems signing up but hopefully it's all good now. I was second to sign up

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 11:18 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
You should be able to set country preferences up until game start, if you'd like.

MegaSilver March 22nd, 2017 11:28 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
@Dad_Scaper , I didn't get a password.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 11:29 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Oops. Sending now.

edit: Sent.

MegaSilver March 22nd, 2017 11:54 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2141003)
Oops. Sending now.

edit: Sent.

How are you sending it? PM? Because I still havent got anything. XD

Kinseth March 22nd, 2017 12:00 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I'll play, is there a game link I have missed?

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 12:13 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
This is the post you missed. PM incoming.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2140856)
Ok, I set up a game on the DP Judge. Shoot me a PM and I'll send you some info, including the name of the game, and we can sign start signing up. There will be a bit of a learning curve at the start, for all of us because this is a next-gen judge for me, but we'll get there pretty quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2140741)
I set up this thread to help the conversation along. I do love Diplomacy, but I don't have the burning need to play right now. I'll make some inquiries about what systems the game veterans are using to play online now. I encourage others to do the same, and we'll try to get a platform nailed down.

The more people who are interested in playing the better, because I don't expect that, when push comes to shove, all the listed names will sign up.

edit: Apparently, the cool kids are using this platform, which is the heir to the "Ken Lowe judges" that dominated online Diplomacy a few years ago: http://www.floc.net/dpjudge/

I can GM, which would allow me to help people manage interacting with the judge. Please have a look at it and post your thoughts, or share a different platform you'd prefer. Don't worry about the technical aspects of interacting with the judge; it's quite simple once you're used to it, and you get used to it quickly.


As I wrote above, after we have 7 I'll share the game name here so people can observe, and I'll post updates as well as the game progresses.

Ranior March 22nd, 2017 12:19 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2140998)
You should be able to set country preferences up until game start, if you'd like.

Aha, indeed I was able to.

Taking just a little while to get used the syntax needed for the emails but getting a lot better at it now.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 12:28 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
The syntax is very intuitive, in my opinion.

As for this situation:
Quote:

Originally Posted by All Your Pie (Post 2140859)
Oh sure, the basics seem pretty simple to wrap my head around. But if it gets to the point where I'm, say, convoying a unit across a channel to support another unit that's holding a province, I might miss a point where my opponent could easily break that chain somehow, or I might miss a path that would allow me to do something more useful. Or I might not submit my order properly, heh. Basically the sorts of higher level maneuvers a newer player might be expected to miss but I have a bad habit of trying to be a perfectionist.

Convoys can be disrupted if one of the convoying fleets is dislodged. There just aren't a whole lot of units on the board at any one location, though, normally, so you should see if this is possible at a glance.

Your bigger problem is that you don't convoy an army's support. You could support with the fleet, but any unit's support is vulnerable to being "cut." Support is cut when the supporting unit is defending itself. For instance, imagine the order F NTH s BEL-HOL: the fleet in the North Sea is supporting an army's push from Belgium into Holland.

Now imagine a different power - a power can't cut its own support - ordering F ENG-NTH: the fleet in the English Channel is moving into the North Sea. Even if that move bounces - as it will, if it's not supported, because the defending strength of F NTH is equal to the attacking strength of the F ENG - the North Sea fleet's support for BEL-HOL is "cut," and therefore void.

All Your Pie March 22nd, 2017 12:35 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Yup, I've been brushing up a bit on the orders. Things are falling in to place somewhat now that I clarified for myself that a unit must be able to support into the space that is being attacked (unless it's supporting a hold), and that only the move order actually moves units (and the convoy order only works if the unit being moved is, well, moving).

And yup, I've signed up as has been mentioned. I'll let my pick be random, since I don't know the map or any of the advantages therein (other than Russia having four units to start, but that seems like it could be a dangerous game).

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 12:43 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
All the powers are very playable, though the game's asymmetrical board does matter.

Ranior March 22nd, 2017 12:45 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Yeah going random is fine. Russia has a little bit of an advantage with 4, but in a game of Diplomacy, having the most centers does often make you the target of attacks. Overall there are some win stats out there that will state certain nations have better odds, but overall the balance is pretty good with any nation having a reasonable shot at winning.

Really the game is quite brilliant in the fact that it really is all negotiation, and while some of the orders sound confusing at first, it really is pretty simple and intuitive at the end. You'll pick things up relatively quickly in your first game.

Looking forward to it for sure.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 12:54 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
In my humble opinion, Diplomacy is the *only* pre-Catan game that is still the best game in its niche. There are other 2-player abstract games I'd rather play than chess; other letter-tile word-making games I'd rather play than Scrabble. Lord knows there are other push-your-luck area control games I'd prefer to Risk. But for long-form negotiation games, there is one that is clearly superior, and it's Diplomacy, Alan Calhammer's old dinosaur from the 1950's.

quozl March 22nd, 2017 01:31 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I agree with one exception. Go is still the best abstract game and has been going strong for about 4000 years.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 01:34 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
It's a very personal thing. I can believe that I might feel that way about Go if I knew it better, but my understanding of that game never advanced beyond having a very basic understanding of the rules.

Sign up, Q!

quozl March 22nd, 2017 01:38 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I just did. :)

It was confusing to me but I emailed: dpjudge@floc.net

with the subject being the name of the game you emailed me and the body of the email was:

JOIN gamename* mypasswordImadeup*
SIGNOFF

*replace with proper name and password

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 02:04 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
That's right. There are only 3 spots left!

Ranior March 22nd, 2017 02:35 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I pretty much agree DS. Diplomacy is still one of the few pre-Catan games that is the best at what it does. There have been many other advancements such that many older games don't hold up well, but Diplomacy still stands out.

Also glad to see we've already got 4 spots filled!

marrowick March 22nd, 2017 02:41 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
@Dad_Scaper I sent an e-mail to you a few hours ago, since you've been on since I sent it I just wanted to make sure you received it. Thanks! :)

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 02:49 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Oops! PM incoming. I'm glad you posted in the thread. If I don't respond to a PM it's because I overlooked it.

In the game you can reach me with a "press to m." Note, also, that the game is set to "gunboat," which means that you won't see who is playing which power. You might figure it out anyway, or think you've figured it out anyway, but it won't be immediately apparent.

Ranior March 22nd, 2017 03:05 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Oh huh cool.

I suppose my announcement that I was able to pick my power rather tips away who I am but alas. I don't mind.

marrowick March 22nd, 2017 03:16 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
My e-mail isn't processing for them, here's what I put down originally.

JOIN GERMANY@agentcarr *********

SIGNOFF

When that didn't work I tried.

JOIN agentcarr *********

SIGNOFF

But that kicked back as well.

Ranior March 22nd, 2017 03:46 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Did you make sure you went here first to register with the site so that it would process your email?

http://www.floc.net/dpjudge/?variant=dppd

Otherwise either of those look like valid join commands.

marrowick March 22nd, 2017 04:20 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranior (Post 2141048)
Did you make sure you went here first to register with the site so that it would process your email?

http://www.floc.net/dpjudge/?variant=dppd

Otherwise either of those look like valid join commands.

No, I couldn't find the registration link. Thanks!

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 04:30 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Two spots left!

edit ~ It seems to me we should have our seven. Please let me know if you are one of these people and you have *not* signed up yet:
@Kinseth @marrowick @Zetsubo @All Your Pie @quozl @kevindola @Ranior

Just shoot me a PM. No need to post here, and I'd rather you didn't.

Kinseth March 22nd, 2017 05:23 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I've tried to join, unsure why I am not listed.

Kinseth March 22nd, 2017 05:26 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I am in now it seems.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 05:33 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Yup. One spot left, and it's one of you.

kevindola March 22nd, 2017 05:41 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marrowick (Post 2141041)
My e-mail isn't processing for them, here's what I put down originally.

JOIN GERMANY@agentcarr *********

SIGNOFF

When that didn't work I tried.

JOIN agentcarr *********

SIGNOFF

But that kicked back as well.

1) Is this text in the title or the body of the email?

2) Do I use my password from my login account, or the password D_S PMd?

Kinseth March 22nd, 2017 05:42 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
password for your login account.

should be

email subject agentcarr
JOIN agentcarr mypassword
signoff

kevindola March 22nd, 2017 05:44 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
ok, i'm in

Kinseth March 22nd, 2017 05:47 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindola (Post 2141069)
ok, i'm in

Huzzah!

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 05:53 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2141070)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindola (Post 2141069)
ok, i'm in

Huzzah!

Indeed. The game is full.


I can't access the judge while I'm at work. You may find that you've been assigned powers, if you hadn't picked them already. If not, I'll have to jiggle a few light switches later to get it started.

quozl March 22nd, 2017 06:43 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Looks like you may have to do some jiggling.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 07:00 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Will do. Give me a few hours to get home & get settled.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 08:08 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
And we're off! I figured it out on my phone. Details for observers later this evening.

Edit: and I'll push off the s1901m deadline, too.

All Your Pie March 22nd, 2017 08:38 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I'm a bit confused as to how the PRESS function works, since that wasn't in the rules for face-to-face games that I read. Are messages not sent to all nations intended to be private? If so, there's a problem, because I'm seeing messages sent by one country to another country that isn't me.

Dad_Scaper March 22nd, 2017 08:44 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Err, that's curious. Let me look into it. Also, "press to m" in the game should send press to me.

Send me a press to m in the game with a sample of the problem. Also, if someone else is seeing a similar effect, let me know.

Kinseth March 22nd, 2017 08:53 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Is there a public list of who has what country?


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