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-   -   Q10 is he the new Q9? (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=20022)

clancampbell July 12th, 2008 05:35 PM

Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I hope I'm putting this in the right place and couldn't really find any article like it using search.
I want to touch on Q10. Everybody and their brother seem to be singing the praises of Q9, how he's awesome, you need an effective counter in every army, etc. etc. etc. However I hear nothing of Q10, sure he has less def. dice, and his specials work a little differently, but I feel he's just as good if not better than Q9, for 30 points less.
I had never played with either until last night. We were playing 400 points, general specific, builds. It was my second game of the evening and I was stuck for an idea, so I figured what the heck and grabbed the Q brothers. I have to say Q10 was the man(borg) of the match. He took out more than his points worth and even bailed Q9 out of a jam. Wrist rocket special might not offer the same amount of attacks, or dice as Q9's, but it seemed to be more effective.
I'm not trashing Q9, I just don't see what the big deal is. Maybe against low def. swarm armies he would be good, but for all around tourny type builds, I'd put my money on Q10.

1Mmirg July 12th, 2008 05:56 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I played Q10 at our recent tourney (though in a less competitive Nakita army--just for fun and b/c the Nakitas get trashed a lot it seemed to me). He is a real effective unit. The flexibility of his attacks (and the range of the Machine Pistol Special) really does give him some strength (his own niche).

I don't think he'll ever be as feared as Q9 b/c of his lower defense. He is flexible and effective (and cheaper), but enough concentrated power and he goes down much quicker than Q9.

He is a blast to play--definitely a viable figure (and the Q brothers together is pretty wicked--add in the Reavers and/or Raelin and I'm not going to want to play against you ;)...).

Yodaking July 12th, 2008 06:03 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I like Q10 quite a bit. He has gone down too quickly in a few games but he has killed more then his points worth in enemy figures more often. No matter how good the figure is, you are still a slave to the dice.

As far as Q9 goes, I own him but have not really used him much at all yet. He seems really effective against swarm armies filled with low or no DEF dice figures, but the guys I play most often with don't play those types of armies, so I never use him as a result. Having 3, 3 dice attacks is still pretty good, so I see the value, I just never seem to be able to fit him into an army as I have so many figures to choose from and don't play as often as I would like too. When I want a guy who can make 3 special ranged attacks I go with the Ice Dragon. His sculpt is a lot cooler.

acdveins July 12th, 2008 06:05 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I love Q10. I try to stay away from the overplayed figures like Q9, 4th mass, etc. I usually draft Q10 to replace Q9.
He goes down pretty quickly as most people are afraid of what his wrist rockets can do once you get close enough to use it. Unfortunately, he doesn't last long. A couple shots of 4 dice or so can take him out without problem. I think the key to using him is staying at range at using his machine pistol as much as possible. Only switch to wrist rockets when you have no other choice.

Lord_Paul July 12th, 2008 06:15 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Q10, IMO, is a really good way to kill off low defense squaddies. 4 attacks of 2 will rip through a pack of charging Venocs, for example. I agree with acdveins, if you're forced to use the rockets, Q10's likley to die off shortly after. (unless you're using them on a single enemy hero, in which case, Q10 shines just as well as when he's tearing up squaddies)

heroscaper314 July 12th, 2008 06:20 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
With higher defense and having 3 attacks of 3 (or some other combination of 9 attack dice...Q10 can get 4 attacks of 2 but so can Q9, plus another attack of 1, even if it does sacrifice 1 range) as opposed to Q10 getting two attacks of 4 (and this with a range of 4 as opposed to 6) I think that Q9 is still a better squad killer than Q10. Of course Q9 costs more, so if you don't have enough points to draft him, Q10 is still quite a formidable foe, even if he does tend to die a bit quickly (but in the meantime your other units aren't being attacked!)

Jandarforever July 12th, 2008 06:31 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Good point Heroscaper314. Q10 is a great offensive unit and has a decent defence but it just does not stand up to multiple attacks, or high attacks when he is engaged. He is the type of unit that has to kill off his enemy before they reach him. Q9 on the other hand is not only a great offensive unit, he has almost impenetrable armour which keeps him alive much longer than Q10 (I also just seem to have more luck with Q9).

Emoskull9 July 12th, 2008 06:45 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Q10 is powerful but however does go down to quickly.

CheddarLimbo July 13th, 2008 03:06 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
It seems like the designers work very hard to make sure each figure is balanced. From what I can tell, Q9 is one of those figures that is just a little too powerful for his cost. He's just a very good figure, and when you play in a competitive setting the math points to him as a good idea in just about any situation.

And to chime in with everyone else so far... The reason Q10 doesn't get quite as much praise is because he really does go down faster. And all the versatility in the world doesn't matter once the figure is off the board and back on his card.

Aldin July 13th, 2008 03:33 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I guess what strikes me is that not only does Q9 get more praise, but Kaemon Awa gets more praise as well! Q10 is to Kaemon what Q9 is to Q10 - yet somehow Q10 seems the odd man out. Perhaps we think of 120 points as filler and of 150 as core?

~Aldin, with thoughts unfinished

acdveins July 13th, 2008 04:58 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Interesting thought, Aldin. Perhaps the point value defines the role within the army. Kaemon Awa is an awesome unit, but Q10 has almost the exact Ability. Q10 only cost 30 points more.

You have just changed my theoryscape forever thank you.

Tribesofwar July 13th, 2008 05:23 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
[QUOTE]
Quote:

Originally Posted by heroscaper314 (Post 614649)
Q10 can get 4 attacks of 2 but so can Q9, plus another attack of 1, even if it does sacrifice 1 range) as opposed to Q10 getting two attacks of 4 (and this with a range of 4 as opposed to 6) quote]

I believe that Q9 can only attack at a max of three, 3 times.

acdveins July 13th, 2008 05:54 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
No, he can attack up to nine times if he only uses one dice for each attack.

rdhight July 13th, 2008 07:05 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Q9's high defense is pretty important. Most ranged figures, even awesome ones, just can't throw those numbers of D6 around. You can have a fourth figure like the minutemen, great range like Syvarris, regeneration like Sonlen and MWs, flying like a dragon, or high all-around stats like the Krav, but ranged units with 4 to 9 attack dice and 7 defense are hard to come by. Not many ranged units break the 4-die barrier on attack or defense, and he breaks it on both. Even counting Marvel heroes, he's still in a select class.

Q10 is very good, very competitive, but he's more in line with Kaemon, dragons, and big ranged heroes in general. One thing I like about him is that his normal attack, the one Laglor can boost, is equal to Q9's, so I sometimes downgrade Q9 to Q10 in a Laglor army to shave off a few points.

Tribesofwar July 13th, 2008 07:12 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
What I meant to say was that Q9, when using his special attack can only attack with a maximum of 3 dice per attack. Which would give Q9 three attacks. Or a 1 three attack+t2 two attacks+2 one attacks. Not 2 four attacks+1 one attack.

Jexik July 13th, 2008 12:36 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Q10 is weak. I went 2-3 at my last tournament. My two wins? Both players had Q10. I did have Krug, so I may have stomped Q9 just as easily, but I've never been very impressed with Q10.

As for why people sing Kaemon Awa's praises more? I think it's mostly his size. I don't know if one defense and 30 more points really makes up for the sacrifices in mobility and the much larger hit zone. As a clean up figure, it's nice to have a figure like KA that can hide more easily until you need him. Also, Kaemon Awa came out first. And he's a samurai. He gets a lot of praise simply for being cool, and being good is just sort of a bonus.

Compared to Q9? I don't think there really is a comparison. Those 30 points give you a lot. The only time I'd take Q10 is if I didn't have enough points for Q9 or if I don't want to win as much. Not exactly glowing praise.

In short, people don't talk about Q10 that much because he has two very good substitutes depending on how many points you've got left. If you want to make sacrifices for theme or power, he's certainly not a bad choice, he's just not as good.

(As an aside, this reminds me a lot of the 4th vs. 10th debates. Having an extra point of defense or two is significant, and seems to work better than a little extra flexibility).

Majai of Dreams July 13th, 2008 01:00 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
To me it is a matter of probability and what you are going against.

Speaking strictly on an offensive level comparing their special abilities.

What I like about Q10 compared to Q9 is that his special attack is 4 die twice, as opposed to Q9s 3 die 3 times.
Sure he rolls 1 less total die, but I like the concentrated damage for going against higher defense enemies.
Q9 can roll at most 3, so when attacking another high defense figure like Brunak or a deathwalker, I would rater roll 4 die twice, than 3 die 3 times. Sure he can just switch to his normal attack, but he still only gets 1 shot.
Q10 at least on my tables has proven to be more of a hero killer, while Q9 has been a squad destroyer, who also widdles down heroes. But Q10 has taken down the big guys with more consistency due to rolling 4 die per attack.

At the end of the day, it is being able to roll more die at once, not more die overall that puts Q10 higher in my book.

Soul Shackle July 13th, 2008 01:04 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
In this army:

Major Q10 150
Swog Rider (x2) 200
Mimring 350
Krug 470
Arrow Gruts (x3) 600

...Q10 fills in the lack of defense rather nicely and brings 2 ranged Special Attacks. So, as said previously, if you can't afford Q9 in your army, Q10 isn't the worst substitute in the world.

Dragonmaster384 July 13th, 2008 09:02 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
The two extra defense dice make a massive difference in survivability, and are well worth the extra points. I personally like Q10, but he is doomed to be overshadowed by Q9 forever. :cry:

Revdyer July 13th, 2008 10:46 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clancampbell (Post 614588)
I had never played with either until last night. We were playing 400 points, general specific, builds.

clancampbell, I sincerely mean no disrespect and admire your honesty in this matter, but I cannot see how, with so little data, one can come to any sure conclusion in the matter. I'll be very interested to see how you analyze the comparative worth of the two Q's after, say, five or ten games with each one. I think the experience is especially colored by limiting your options to General specific army builds.

After a wider experience, I suspect you will come to realize exactly why Q-9's virtues are so widely sung. I might be wrong about that, though. It will be interesting to see.

scottishlad5 July 14th, 2008 12:13 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Q9 is like th chuck norris of heroscape figures.

clancampbell July 14th, 2008 12:19 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
No disrespect taken Rev. I'm glad to have a well respected board member, such as yourself, weigh in on this. You are right. I thought of that after posting and I do suppose it was a knee jerk reaction on my part. However, if nothing else, the game in question did open my eyes to how good I belive Q10 to be, and has made me think of other armies to build with him. So I take a character that neither myself or anyone in my group has ever used before, and now he'll get some playtime, at least for a little while. I guess it just makes me feel good that yet another figure has been moved to the possible play section, from the dust collector section, of my shelves. :D Now Sparticus feels really lonely.:cry:

scottishlad5 July 14th, 2008 12:30 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
They need a q10 unit, you know like how q9 has blastrons, and x-17 has gladiatrons.

Onacara July 14th, 2008 01:07 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scottishlad5 (Post 616082)
They need a q10 unit, you know like how q9 has blastrons, and x-17 has gladiatrons.

Blastarons are more like Q-10 than Q-9.

I am going to chime in on the Q10 fan club as I do tend to use him more than Q9. I think the biggest problem with people comparing the 2 of them is that they try and play them both the "same way" and you just cannot. Both are good against Squaddies but Q-9 gets the edge when the squads you are facing are Vipers and 2 defense squads who are not getting a defense bonus. He is also better vs KMA since he can take 9 shots at them and the law of averages say he should be able to kill at least one of them in a turn.
Q10 on the other hand is better against hero's and higher defense squads with the wrist rocket. Q10 is definitely a second or third wave kind of unit. I usually play him in Vydar themed builds and he comes out after the Glads/Blast have moved into position and tied my opponent up a bit. Q9 on the other hand can come out in the first wave depending on you opponents army.

DeadEye July 14th, 2008 01:19 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I agree with Onacara,
I have Vydar as my favorite General and like to play these 2 alot,

yet i do agree that people keep looking over that they are not completely, but do have their differences. Q9 and Q10 take different roles in an army, yet those roles are similar yet not the same,

DeadEye

Revdyer July 14th, 2008 09:36 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clancampbell (Post 616072)
So I take a character that neither myself or anyone in my group has ever used before, and now he'll get some playtime, at least for a little while. I guess it just makes me feel good that yet another figure has been moved to the possible play section, from the dust collector section, of my shelves.

I think this is great, clancampbell. Most of us have units that have not gotten a full or fair workout, I suspect. Some of the HeroScape units obviously take more practice to get good with than others, and that takes plenty of game time, a thing not in over abundance for most of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onacara (Post 616119)
I think the biggest problem with people comparing the 2 of them is that they try and play them both the "same way" and you just cannot.

This is an excellent point, Onacara. The same applies to several units that are similar to each other, e. g., the 4th Massachusetts Line and the 10th Regiment of Foot, or the Minions of Utgar and the Sentinels of Jandar. In each case, while similar, the units really do need to be played with different nuances and tactics.

That says something positive for the depth of this game, I think. (It might just say something about the shallowness of my mind, of course. <grin> I've heard "real gamers" say that HeroScape is too simple for them.)

Onacara July 14th, 2008 09:55 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
The 4th and 10th are definitely 2 different breeds of cat as far as how you play them and ironically they both stay fairly true to the real units they represent. The 4th work much in the way the Colonial Militia went about their business. You get them up high and undercover and have them dig in and fire away. The 10th have that we can stand here and shoot you or we can mix it up and get dirty kind of play. And while the 10th can be played more like the 4th...it does not work the other way around.

:ponder: If the 10th actuallly did that 235 years ago we might all be speaking differently :wink:

Dredd Stev July 14th, 2008 09:59 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRev
That says something positive for the depth of this game, I think. (It might just say something about the shallowness of my mind, of course. <grin> I've heard "real gamers" say that HeroScape is too simple for them.)

I would argue that these nay-sayers have NOT sat down a taken the time to fully understand the Game. There is a "critical mass" of sorts when it come to playing Scape, and I find that once a player hits that level (A hard-to-quantify combination of playtime, map building experience and familiarity with the figures) they start to find depth in the game that was once invisible to them.

I LOVE it when I'm there to see a strategic mind 'CLICK' and suddenly they start asking to "play one more game".

1Mmirg July 14th, 2008 10:17 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I'm with you Onacara, they are two different units. The big difference/advantage, for me, is that Q10 can get range 7 with 4 attacks and Q9 can't match that. He blows Q10 away in lots of other ways, but that special with a range of 7 and 4 chances to target units, well, that is the ultimate low defense squad killer and perfect for all the new lower ranged units (it just ripes through the 10th Regiment, for example) and denies Wait then Fire much use.

Q10 isn't the resilient tank that Q9 is, but he has his specific uses and does what he does well.

orc king 101 July 14th, 2008 12:52 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Not to get off subject, But thats the only reason I like mimring. His fire line attack and it can also go 4 times. so mimring and and Q9 must be a good pair even though on diffrent armys

Onacara July 14th, 2008 12:54 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orc king 101 (Post 616476)
Not to get off subject, But thats the only reason I like mimring. His fire line attack and it can also go 4 times. so mimring and and Q9 must be a good pair even though on diffrent armys

Mimring cannot ALSO go 4 times. (unless you meant something else to which I then respond :wtf: )

Agent of Vydar July 14th, 2008 12:56 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Q9 is basically a tank with his 7 defense and can use his special attack multiple times. Q10, although easier to destroy, has two very powerful special attacks. Although Q9 is at the top Q10 ranks second probably among all the soulborgs.

orc king 101 July 14th, 2008 01:00 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I just checked and youre right sorry but it is agreat atack and paired with Q9 it would look so cool and I bet they would work great together!!

Agent of Vydar July 14th, 2008 01:01 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
He can go one time attacking 8 in one line.

orc king 101 July 14th, 2008 01:03 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Any way Im just waiting to see what Q11 looks like. He will probroly have better attacks than Q9 and Q10 put together.

Agent of Vydar July 14th, 2008 01:04 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
When have they mentioned Q11?

Onacara July 14th, 2008 01:04 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orc king 101 (Post 616493)
I just checked and youre right sorry but it is agreat atack and paired with Q9 it would look so cool and I bet they would work great together!!

If you have the points Braxas is way better a partner for him since she doesnt need people neatly lined up to pick a few squaddies off. (Most 1/2 way decent players would not have more than 2 people lined up if they saw Mimring across the battlefield)

Agent of Vydar July 14th, 2008 01:05 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Onacara (Post 616505)
Quote:

Originally Posted by orc king 101 (Post 616493)
I just checked and youre right sorry but it is agreat atack and paired with Q9 it would look so cool and I bet they would work great together!!

If you have the points Braxas is way better a partner for him since she doesnt need people neatly lined up to pick a few squaddies off. (Most 1/2 way decent players would not have more than 2 people lined up if they saw Mimring across the battlefield)

I guess my brother is not 1/2 way decent.

Onacara July 14th, 2008 01:06 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent of Vydar (Post 616509)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Onacara (Post 616505)
Quote:

Originally Posted by orc king 101 (Post 616493)
I just checked and youre right sorry but it is agreat atack and paired with Q9 it would look so cool and I bet they would work great together!!

If you have the points Braxas is way better a partner for him since she doesnt need people neatly lined up to pick a few squaddies off. (Most 1/2 way decent players would not have more than 2 people lined up if they saw Mimring across the battlefield)

I guess my brother is not 1/2 way decent.

:rofl:

scottishlad5 July 14th, 2008 01:08 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
And I think its like a shotgun with the rankings, the lower you go the better, hence Q9, Q10

Agent of Vydar July 14th, 2008 01:12 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scottishlad5 (Post 616522)
And I think its like a shotgun with the rankings, the lower you go the better, hence Q9, Q10

Q0: Nuclear Blast, choose a figure to attack. That figure and all figures on the board are permanently destroyed. Q0 is somehow immune to Nuclear Blast.:lol:

orc king 101 July 14th, 2008 01:16 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
I havnt played with braxus yet. my brother went with my dad on a buisness trip to china and he has it they left the day I got it

orc king 101 July 14th, 2008 01:18 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Also they havnt mention it yet but their bonde too I bet their going to run out of ideas bye wave 11

Dredd Stev July 14th, 2008 01:32 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orc king 101
I havnt played with braxus yet. my brother went with my dad on a buisness trip to china and he has it they left the day I got it


Quote:

Originally Posted by orc king 101
Also they havnt mention it yet but their bonde too I bet their going to run out of ideas bye wave 11



orc king 101, first off welcome to the site! I havenít seen you around yet.

Second has anybody explained to you what that little red box under your post count represents? Because it's never going turn all green and multiply if you keep making posts like these two...


I would like to point out:

1) There is really no need to post something right after you posted something. One of the options available on every post you make is to EDIT it, which is generally a much better idea than another post with only an added sentence or additional point.
2) The community at large is BIG TIME into good grammar and posting standards. I highly suggest you read THIS and THIS
3) Another option available to your posts is the ability to QUOTE what another member has posted. I did it at the top of this post so that others can quickly reference what it is you said that caused me to respond. A similar quote to the last post made that made you respond would greatly aid others in understanding the point you are trying to make.


Just a few little points that I'm sure will get you some positive feedback around these boards. (Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about how to use some of these posting options.)

scottishlad5 July 14th, 2008 01:35 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
:thumbsup:

1Mmirg July 14th, 2008 02:19 PM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dredd Stev again.
Nicely put, Dredd Stev.

Welcome to the site orc king 101--glad to have you here. It took me a bit to figure out the community here (I actually read the boards for months before posting anything).

I'll give you some positive rep as a welcome gift and hope you follow some of the advice that DS just gave you. Enjoy your Scaping!

Taeblewalker July 15th, 2008 12:25 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Mmirg (Post 616651)
Quote:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dredd Stev again.
Nicely put, Dredd Stev.

Welcome to the site orc king 101--glad to have you here. It took me a bit to figure out the community here (I actually read the boards for months before posting anything).

I'll give you some positive rep as a welcome gift and hope you follow some of the advice that DS just gave you. Enjoy your Scaping!

Ditto. ;)

jedilou July 15th, 2008 10:19 AM

Re: Q10 is he the new Q9?
 
orc king 101,

Welcome to the site!


Dredd Stev,

I applaud your approach in welcoming new members.
+ rep.


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