Heroscapers

Heroscapers (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/index.php)
-   Competitive Armies Discussion (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=34)
-   -   OEAO's Legacy Power Rankings (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=54867)

OEAO May 8th, 2018 01:10 AM

OEAO's Legacy Power Rankings
 
For a better understanding of these Power Rankings, please read my State of the Meta Address companion piece that largely deals with the shifts in the Meta.

For terminology that I use in the descriptions, please read my Terminology Guide.

For the methodology behind these rankings, please listen to Rankings Methodology ft. Dok.

You can also read this for more clarification on assessing units on their own merits.

These Power Rankings are only inclusive of the Hasbro-released units from the original run of the game (2004-2010). For my Renegade-inclusive Power Rankings, please see OEAO's Modern Power Rankings (Coming Soon).

These Power Rankings are meant to be a modern look at the Competitive HeroScape scene and the value each unit has within an army in a variety of formats.

Thanks to spider-poison and Jexik for creating and maintaining the older rankings.

For the reasoning behind the colors, read Jexik's excellent article What's in an Order Marker?, and listen to the Casters of Valhalla episode on this article, CoV Entry 13: Strategy with Jexik.

A+

Deathreavers (40*)
Major Q9 (180)
Marro Warriors (50)
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV (80)

A
4th Mass. Line (70*)
10th Regiment of Foot (75*)
Blastatrons (60*)
Gladiatrons (80*)
Grimnak (120)

Heavy Gruts (70*)
Isamu (10)
Knights of Weston (70*)

Krav Maga Agents (100)

Marcu Esenwein (20)
Me-Burq-Sa (50)
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider (50)
Nilfheim (185)
Sir Gilbert (105)

A-
Agent Skahen (120)
Airborne Elite (110)
Alastair MacDirk (110)

Arrow Gruts (40*)
The Axegrinders of Burning Forge (70*)
Blade Gruts (40*)
Braxas (210)
Cyprien Esenwein (150)

Darrak Ambershard (60)

Death Chasers of Thesk (55*)
Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30)
Eltahale (140)
Fen Hydra (120+)

Fire Elemental (35*)
Greenscale Warriors (60*)
Kaemon Awa (120)
Major Q10 (150)
Marcus Decimus Gallus (100)
Marro Dividers (50*)
Marro Stingers (60*)
Mezzodemon Warmongers (65*)
Mimring (150)

Mogrimm Forgehammer (120)
Phantom Knights (70*)
Roman Legionnaires (50*)
Swog Rider (25*)
Zelrig (185)

B+
Arkmer (50)
Ashigaru Harquebus (60*)
Atlaga (90)
Black Wyrmling (30*)
Brave Arrow (50)

Charos (210)
Crixus (90)
Finn the Viking Champion (80)
Frost Giant of Morh (140+)
Fyorlag Spiders (40*)
Goblin Cutters (50*)

Guilty McCreech (30)
Heirloom (90)

Horned Skull Brutes (75*)

Krug (120)

Kurrok the Elementalist (120)
Laglor (110)
Marrden Hounds (90*)
Marrden Nagrubs (30*)
Migol Ironwill (110)
Minions of Utgar (110*)
Mohican River Tribe (70*)
Moltenclaw (170)
Nakita Agents (120)
Ne-Gok-Sa (90)
Ogre Pulverizer (100+)
Red Wyrmling (30*)

Sacred Band (50*)
Samuel Brown (60)
Sentinels of Jandar (110*)
Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170)
Sonya Esenwein (45)
Syvarris (100)
Tandros Kreel (120)
Tarn Viking Warriors (50)
Theracus (40)
Tornak (100)
Tor-Kul-Na (220)

Valguard (110)
Venoc Vipers (40*)

Venoc Warlord (120)
Wyvern (100+)
Zetacron (60)
Zombies of Morindan (60*)



B

Air Elemental (30*)

Ana Karithon (100)
Ashigaru Yari (40*)

Aubrien Archers (70*)
Brunak (110)
Capuan Gladiators (70*)
Chardris (90)
Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Estivara (80)
Ice Troll Berserker (85+)
Iron Golem (100+)

Izumi Samurai (60)
James Murphy (75)
Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (65)

Jorhdawn (100)
Kato Katsuro (200)

Kozuke Samurai (100)
Kyntela Gwyn (20)
MacDirk Warriors (80*)
Marro Drones (50*)
Master of the Hunt (140+)
Microcorp Agents (100*)
Ogre Warhulk (150+)

Omnicron Repulsors (40*)
Omnicron Snipers (100*)
Ornak (100)
Othkurik the Black Dragon (140)
Otonashi (10)
Parmenio (90)
Protectors of Ullar (110*)
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120)
Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV (110)
Sir Denrick (100)
Sir Hawthorne (90)
Sonlen (160)
Spartacus (200)
Taelord the Kyrie Warrior (180)

Tagawa Samurai (120)

Thorgrim the Viking Champion (80)
Ulginesh (150)
Warforged Soldiers (80*)
Warriors of Ashra (50*)
Water Elemental (30*)

White Wyrmling (30*)

B-

Anubian Wolves (75*)

Armoc Vipers (65*)

Blue Wyrmling (35*)

Death Knights of Valkrill (60*)

Drow Chainfighter (25*)
Dumutef Guard (25*)

Dzu-Teh (75*)

Earth Elemental (35*)

Emirroon (80)
Evar Scarcarver (110)
Granite Guardians (100*)
Iskra Esenwein (50)
Kelda the Kyrie Warrior (80)

Marro Hive (160)

Morsbane (100)
Quasatch Hunters (100*)

Retiarius (90)
Rhogar Dragonspine (110)
Shurrak (160)
Siege (120)
Su-Bak-Na (160)
Sujoah (185)
Tagawa Samurai Archers (65*)

Torin (120)
Warden 816 (90)
Werewolf Lord (140+)
Wolves of Badru (80*)
Wo-Sa-Ga (135)
Zettian Guards (70)



C+
Agent Carr (100)

Brandis Skyhunter (90)

Deathstalkers (100*)
Deathwalker 8000 (130)

Deepwyrm Drow (70*)

Elite Onyx Vipers (100)

Gorillinators (90*)

Greater Ice Elemental (130+)

Jotun (225)

Kumiko (80)

Marro Drudge (50*)
Master Win Chiu Woo (140)
Mika Connour (110)
Mind Flayer Mastermind (100+)
Ninjas of the Northern Wind (110)
Shaolin Monks (80*)

Sir Dupuis (150)
Tul-Bak-Ra (130)



C
Acolarh (110)
Deathwalker 9000 (140)

The Einar Imperium (140*)

Empress Kiova (90)

Erevan Sunshadow (80)

Feral Troll (90+)
Grok Riders (130*)

Hatamoto Taro (130)
Kee-Mo-Shi (130)
Khosumet the Darklord (75)
Major X17 (100)
Roman Archers (55*)
Sahuagin Raider (25*)

Saylind the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Sharwin Wildborn (110)
Templar Cavalry (120*)

C-

Deadeye Dan (60)

Dünd (110)
Gurei-Oni (100)
Moriko (110)

Obsidian Guards (100*)
Rechets of Bogdan (50)
Runa (120)

Shades of Bleakewoode (100*)
Shiori (60)


Sudema (140)

D
Deathwalker 7000 (100)

Pelloth (100)




Unit Descriptions (In Progress):
Spoiler Alert!

Feedback welcomed! Happy ‘Scaping!

superfrog May 8th, 2018 11:18 AM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
There's weird artifacts throughout (at least on my computer), they look like this: 



What does S mean, for Raelin?

itsbuzzi May 8th, 2018 11:47 AM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrog (Post 2192560)
There's weird artifacts throughout (at least on my computer), they look like this: 



What does S mean, for Raelin?

Basically higher than A+. An alternative ranking to the standard grade system we and the American education system used (A, B, C, D, F) that goes SSS, SS, S, A, B, C, D, F. This system originated because A rank didn't cut it for some which I suppose is the case here. Can't wait for the SS and SSS figures to reveal themselves.

Lazy Orang May 8th, 2018 01:09 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Not sure I buy Raelin being stronger than Q9.

wriggz May 8th, 2018 01:55 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2192568)
Not sure I buy Raelin being stronger than Q9.

Given an option between bringing any army that includes Raelin, or any army that includes Q9, I think Raelin would be the safer bet. However, I don't think she is a whole grade better.

As far as Artifacts go, there are some other moves that seem odd...

Atlaga*(90, A-)
Still seems like a good sniper and with more heroes that bolt may be more useful, as well as 120 for other common clean up is fairly pricey in smaller armies.

Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) and Marro Warriors (50, A)
Don't see why these guys should be with the big boys. If you have 20 points left you should rebuild your army instead of throwing in a clean up figure.



Ashigaru Harquebus (60*, B-) not sure how they can be better when the startzones are smaller and points are less for the 200 point hero.


MacDirk Warriors (80*, C+) How?

Minions of Utgar (110*, A-)
and Sentinels of Jandar (110*, A-) again if the start zones are smaller, shouldn't they stay the same in value?

Tarn Viking Warriors (50, C+) again, how?

Khosumet the Darklord (75, C) ha, ha, ha. No.

It seems like you have a preference for Unique squads and fillers. I think if you are building an army that includes fillers you are building the wrong army for that point total. Also if you theory is that reverse the whip is the drive, I think you should look at the Bugbears and Mohicans. Those are tough units to use well. I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing. The Warforged are another tricky squad to get the most out of which may make them valuable if you know how to use them well.

Mr Migraine May 8th, 2018 02:00 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2192572)
Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) and Marro Warriors (50, A)
Don't see why these guys should be with the big boys. If you have 20 points left you should rebuild your army instead of throwing in a clean up figure.

A lot (sometimes most?) of Marcu's value comes from being able to soak up wounds from the Wannok glyph, which is pretty common in Gen Con maps. Whether that warrants an A+ is debatable and really depends on what year it is.

wriggz May 8th, 2018 02:07 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Migraine (Post 2192573)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2192572)
Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) and Marro Warriors (50, A)
Don't see why these guys should be with the big boys. If you have 20 points left you should rebuild your army instead of throwing in a clean up figure.

A lot (sometimes most?) of Marcu's value comes from being able to soak up wounds from the Wannok glyph, which is pretty common in Gen Con maps. Whether that warrants an A+ is debatable and really depends on what year it is.

Okay, but Q9's guns are always valuable (even his regular attack is valuable to out range waiting 4th or to attack an iron golem). Deathreavers clog up basically everything, (even orcs can't move through them). A figure that might soak up wounds if a glyph is on the board and your opponent has is far more situational. The Marro Warriors are fairly good, but 2 attack is still pretty rough. If you are activating them, then something bad happened to the rest of your army.

Dad_Scaper May 8th, 2018 02:15 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2192574)
The Marro Warriors are fairly good, but 2 attack is still pretty rough. If you are activating them, then something bad happened to the rest of your army.

Au contraire, in many builds where you see the Marro Warriors, you seem them come out first. They give you a huge threat range for only 50 points, and 4 attacks per turn, even with only 2 dice on even ground, can't be ignored forever.

OEAO May 8th, 2018 02:47 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by itsbuzzi (Post 2192565)
Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrog (Post 2192560)
There's weird artifacts throughout (at least on my computer), they look like this: 



What does S mean, for Raelin?

Basically higher than A+. An alternative ranking to the standard grade system we and the American education system used (A, B, C, D, F) that goes SSS, SS, S, A, B, C, D, F. This system originated because A rank didn't cut it for some which I suppose is the case here. Can't wait for the SS and SSS figures to reveal themselves.

This. S is the top tier; in this case, just Raelin. I don't foresee a need for SS or SSS in this scenario.

OEAO May 8th, 2018 02:48 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2192575)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2192574)
The Marro Warriors are fairly good, but 2 attack is still pretty rough. If you are activating them, then something bad happened to the rest of your army.

Au contraire, in many builds where you see the Marro Warriors, you seem them come out first. They give you a huge threat range for only 50 points, and 4 attacks per turn, even with only 2 dice on even ground, can't be ignored forever.

It's also worth noting that Marro Warriors are one of the highest-skill units to use in the game. In the hands of an S-Tier or Tier 1 player, they are incredible and well worth the points. In the hands of a weaker player, they are merely good or great.

Lazy Orang May 8th, 2018 02:49 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2192572)
I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing.

I've been a big fan of the Sacred Band for a long time, ever since I finally picked them up (they were some of the last official units I got, partially due to their reputation...). I think they're massively underrated. Granted, I think they're tonnes better now than they were when they were released - the need to take an all Disciplined army is a lot less painful now we have a lot of strong Disciplined units around, including the Redcoats. They need an all Disciplined build and Marcus to work well (that third defence die and fifth move point are both essential), but once you've got that, I think they're arguably better than the Romans due to not needing to maintain a tight formation, allowing greater flexibility and easier management. You can then essentially use them almost like Knights or Heavy Gruts, and while both of those are still better (Knights are tougher and Heavy Gruts have both Disengage and Heroes who can boost them to really high levels), they're also 20 points more expensive per squad. Don't bother with Parmenio, though - he's just bad.

OEAO May 8th, 2018 02:56 PM

Re: Orc's Power Rankings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2192581)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz (Post 2192572)
I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing.

I've been a big fan of the Sacred Band for a long time, ever since I finally picked them up (they were some of the last official units I got, partially due to their reputation...). I think they're massively underrated. Granted, I think they're tonnes better now than they were when they were released - the need to take an all Disciplined army is a lot less painful now we have a lot of strong Disciplined units around, including the Redcoats. They need an all Disciplined build and Marcus to work well (that third defence die and fifth move point are both essential), but once you've got that, I think they're arguably better than the Romans due to not needing to maintain a tight formation. You can then essentially use them almost like Knights or Heavy Gruts, and while both of those are still better, they're also 20 points more expensive per squad. Don't bother with Parmenio, though - he's just bad.

Unfortunately, mixing squads of 10th and Sacred Band is significantly worse as of late, seeing as you don't have 24 hexes to play with.

Their biggest problem when compared to Romans is they lack a killer bonding hero: Me-Burq-Sa. MBS is absolutely incredible for his points, and a bonding range option is really the only thing Romans have over other bonding melee. They also have a defense cap of 3, and the 4th die is huge. This really, really, REALLY hurts, and is a huge reason why they are a B+.

I also disagree they can be used like Gruts- Gruts need to maintain formation. That's the only way to get the most value out of them. Romans are much closer in play style to Gruts than SB.

All this being said, SB are a middling to high B+. They're extremely solid... just not good enough to be an A-.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.