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-   -   Diplomacy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53767)

Dad_Scaper February 3rd, 2017 10:57 AM

Anyone here interested in a game of Diplomacy?

Diplomacy over the internet, done right, is an investment of a significant period of time. Not lots of hours in one week, but lots of smaller blocks of time over a much longer period. And if you agree to play and then drop out or go silent during the game, you are significantly harming the experience for the remaining players.

On the other hand, it is a truly great game. Of all the older games I know - chess, Scrabble, Risk, whatever - it is the only one that I believe is still the kind of its niche. It is an abstract (in the sense that there are no random elements) game of negotiation and tactics set at the dawn of 20th century Europe, and it needs seven to play.

Any interest?

Spoiler Alert!

And, over three years later, at the dawn of our fourth game, here are the standings:
History of the Heroscapers Dipomacy Games:

Game 1: 2 Way Draw (Kinseth/Turkey-kevindola/Italy) - March 2017
Game 2: Solo (Kinseth/Russia) - August 2017
Game 3: Solo (Kinseth/Austria) - Feb. 2018
Game 4: 2 Way Draw (scorpiusx/England-kevindola/France) - Jan 2020
Game 5 - 5 Way Draw (kevindola - Italy/Kinseth - England/Ranior - Russia/Dragon Ruler - Austria/quozl - France) - November 2020 5 way Draw

Spoiler Alert!

Many thanks to @kevindola for compiling that record, which is current as of 11/11/20.

quozl February 3rd, 2017 11:11 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Me! (Or I can act as referee and teach others to play.)

dok February 3rd, 2017 11:19 AM

Re: Diplomacy
@Kinseth has been bragging about his most recent Diplomacy success for months now.

Kinseth February 3rd, 2017 11:30 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Count me in!

Dad_Scaper February 3rd, 2017 11:40 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Oy. I am already dreading this wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Kinseth February 3rd, 2017 12:17 PM

Re: Diplomacy
You know what you are getting yourself signed up for! :)

Dad_Scaper February 3rd, 2017 12:31 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Yes, (8)), but I'm not going to push it. If we don't have seven people genuinely committed then I'd rather not bother. I've had a lot of fun in the PBEM community in times gone by, but it's a pain when someone goes AWOL.

Kinseth February 3rd, 2017 12:39 PM

Re: Diplomacy

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2134595)
Yes, (8)), but I'm not going to push it. If we don't have seven people genuinely committed then I'd rather not bother. I've had a lot of fun in the PBEM community in times gone by, but it's a pain when someone goes AWOL.

Yes, agreed. I am finishing a game where one player went AWOL.

I've played on Dip2000.com (A strict play by email site.)since about 2002, but the site is shutting down now. Signed up for a game over at Diplomaticcorp.com. Will give this one a try, feels more PBEM.

Dad_Scaper February 3rd, 2017 12:49 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I played on the Ken Lowe judges for a few years. I think that community is dormant. I can reach out to some people to get us set up on one, or on one of the current versions of that type of setup, if we get enough people.

Zetsubo February 3rd, 2017 05:07 PM

Re: Diplomacy
If anyone can teach me or link the rules I'd be interested in joining if you need another player.

quozl February 3rd, 2017 05:12 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Here you go! Rules: http://faculty.washington.edu/majeski/426/sim1.html

dok February 3rd, 2017 08:56 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I'm not a huge Diplo fan but if it's all 'scapers playing then I'd play if it gets us to 7 players.

MegaSilver February 4th, 2017 12:47 AM

Re: Diplomacy
I'm interested.

Dad_Scaper February 4th, 2017 10:42 AM

Re: Diplomacy
The rules are not hard at all. It's an area control game played on a map of Europe. Armies move and fight on land; fleets move and fight in the water and on the coasts. Fleets may also convoy armies. There are seven players and the winner is the one who controls most of the supply centers - specially marked zones on the map - first.

The challenge is the negotiation. From the beginning to the end you will be (hopefully) communicating with other players to achieve your own goals.

quozl February 4th, 2017 11:02 AM

Re: Diplomacy
And a successful player communicates constantly with both friends and enemies so that no one really knows who is a friend and who is an enemy.

Dad_Scaper February 4th, 2017 11:07 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Yup. We could write pages and pages about how to play *well*, but the rules themselves are simple.

Diplomacy invites more than the usual amount of scholarship like that.

Zetsubo February 4th, 2017 04:23 PM

Re: Diplomacy

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2134646)

Thanks @quozl !

japes February 5th, 2017 02:13 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Just heard of this game tonight. Some friends had a housewarming party/board game party and this game was talked about. One guy is a teacher and he runs a trimester long game in a class. Class is every other day so they get the full time to discuss before returning to class and taking the next turn.

caps February 5th, 2017 04:08 AM

Re: Diplomacy
PBP or PBEM sounds like a much more sane way to play than in real time.

Dad_Scaper February 5th, 2017 11:15 AM

Re: Diplomacy
For me, PBEM is (by a wide margin) the best way to play, and miles ahead of in-person. I know others would reverse the two and perhaps would reject anything other than face-to-face, but I think PBEM is fantastic.

The "Ken Lowe judges," which I mentioned before, are, essentially, programs that run games. You send in your orders and the judge processes them when the deadline comes; you send in your press and the judge forwards it to the intended recipient(s). You would be surprised how complex those commands can get, given the simplicity of the rules, but the judges could handle it all. I *think* the KL judges have been overshadowed by a newer generation of judges, but I'm not sure.

Ranior February 6th, 2017 09:56 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Oh, you know I'm in.

I agree, that the true game comes out in the PBEM format. Yet I have many fond memories of playing real time games with my high school friends. We probably played 30-40 times in real life over those years. We often tried to organize weekend game days to play. Although we usually only played for like four hours and had a general consensus about the winning player(s). We didn't find it fun to try to truly play things all the way out to 18 supply centers, especially since there are so many stalemate lines where sides can stay tied at 17-17 and it just takes hours to truly finish. We were more than happy to play and just decide the two players who were at 12 and 11 were the winners and either one of them actually would have gone on to win or stalemated probably. To this day I still really do enjoy real time Diplomacy games, but not really the late game.

So I'd agree PBEM is ultimately better. I do somewhat miss the mad dashing around the room trying to talk to all the other countries that a real time game provides, the PBEM environment is much better--not to mention it's easier to pull off those famous blindsides. Real life certainly had some issues when your ally noticed you having lengthy talks with a mutual enemy....

Anyhow I'm super interested in playing. I'm good with whatever site others want to play on. I haven't been in the PBEM community for Diplomacy in years, so I have no clue really what people use anymore. My friends and I used to use the Diplomacy app/game on Facebook that worked alright, but I had always heard there were better sites and communities. Whatever people pick I'm happy to register there.

Finally, as for others who are new--welcome! It's a fantastic game. The rules aren't that tough to grasp either, the complexity arises from the tense negotiations and the board positions that can happen. But that's part of what makes it so great--there's no luck, there's relatively few units, but the game gets deliciously cutthroat and quite deep strategically without having tons of mechanics or rules.

And actually speaking of this...no clue if they'd want to try learning or joining, but @Dysole , @scorpiusx might want to check this out.

kevindola February 6th, 2017 11:19 AM

Re: Diplomacy
If you need another player, then I'll definitely give it a go, but I have never played. So if you get 7, maybe I could just observe for the first go around.

Kinseth February 6th, 2017 11:22 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Someone wanna start tallying a List in here?

Dad_Scaper February 6th, 2017 11:23 AM

Re: Diplomacy

Ranior February 6th, 2017 11:39 AM

Re: Diplomacy

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2134946)
Someone wanna start tallying a List in here?


Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2134947)


Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2134572)
Tentatively (or more) interested:
  1. Kinseth
  2. Megasilver
  3. Quozl
  4. DS
  5. Zetsubo
  6. Ranior
  7. kevindola

Well at the very least we got 7, and Dok still is kind of quasi there too.

And kevin, if you do wind up playing, don't worry. I'll be there to help work with you. Just follow my advice and you'll be stabbed in the back led to a glorious victory!

Dad_Scaper February 6th, 2017 11:49 AM

Re: Diplomacy
I'm not counting on everyone on that list playing. I'll likely decide to play, for instance, but I would prefer to step aside so a new player could take my place. It's a great game and this is a rare opportunity to learn it. Maybe I'd sign on as an advisor to a power; I've played games like that, both as the advisor and as the advisee, where the advisor gets all incoming emails but doesn't communicate with anyone but the advisee, who is responsible for press & orders. I enjoyed both roles.

Let's just see how many we get.

Ranior February 6th, 2017 12:04 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Ooh, that's a good point.

I'm also up for that sort of role if we get enough new players who would like to join.

Kinseth February 6th, 2017 12:05 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I'd step aside too, and play as an adviser. We have a couple of new guys electing to play, sounds like fun.

Dad_Scaper February 6th, 2017 12:19 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Let's just get numbers. There are so many different options for the format; I shouldn't have accidentally started down this trail.

Dysole February 6th, 2017 01:35 PM

Diplomatic Immunity
I have played Diplomacy. I know the rules. I'm not sure I can commit to it at this time.

~Dysole, appreciative of the invite

Zetsubo February 6th, 2017 03:25 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I haven't played before but I'd love to give it a try if there is an open spot. Or even watching would be fun. If not that's alright

Dad_Scaper February 6th, 2017 03:36 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Much better to play than to watch, if you want to get a feel for it. You should definitely play.

Tai-Pan February 8th, 2017 08:19 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Droidippy is an excellent App for Smartphones that lets you play Diplomacy in 12 or 24 hour rounds (I think you can even go for a speed version with much shorter rounds). If life's not too hectic I enjoy playing it on the side. You can do invitational games to play with a specific group.

Dad_Scaper February 8th, 2017 08:41 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Cool! Not for iPhone, I'm guessing from the name? Edit: not on iPhone. There is an iPhone app, though.

marrowick February 8th, 2017 10:50 AM

Re: Diplomacy
I'll be willing to join, I am in college right now but with how you described it, it shouldn't be too big of a load right?

Dad_Scaper February 8th, 2017 11:10 AM

Re: Diplomacy
Of course. Beginners are especially welcome.

Ranior February 16th, 2017 04:52 PM

Re: Diplomacy

Hey you never responded the first time around so I'm mentioning you again just so I'm sure you've seen this and have a chance to join if you want.

In other things, what is the status on this? Still trying to get more interest or are we ready to start forming a game?

Dad_Scaper February 16th, 2017 05:13 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Just seeing where we are. I'm in the weeds a bit at work, so I've been slow to do things like this.

MegaSilver February 17th, 2017 10:05 AM

Re: Diplomacy
I'm still interested.

marrowick February 17th, 2017 04:57 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Ready whenever.

Zetsubo February 17th, 2017 06:32 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Just let me know when we are starting.

Ranior March 20th, 2017 01:54 PM

Re: Diplomacy
@Dad_Scaper do you still have interest in getting this set up and playing?

I know I personally am still ready to play, but if this group isn't going to be starting I may just wade into the random players online and try to find a decent game.

All Your Pie March 20th, 2017 02:33 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Well, I just wrapped up some CoN stuff so I might be able to get in on this. I don't know the game or have any idea what I'm doing, but if there's still an interest in recruiting and teaching new players then I'm willing to have a go.

Dad_Scaper March 20th, 2017 02:37 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I set up this thread to help the conversation along. I do love Diplomacy, but I don't have the burning need to play right now. I'll make some inquiries about what systems the game veterans are using to play online now. I encourage others to do the same, and we'll try to get a platform nailed down.

The more people who are interested in playing the better, because I don't expect that, when push comes to shove, all the listed names will sign up.

edit: Apparently, the cool kids are using this platform, which is the heir to the "Ken Lowe judges" that dominated online Diplomacy a few years ago: http://www.floc.net/dpjudge/

I can GM, which would allow me to help people manage interacting with the judge. Please have a look at it and post your thoughts, or share a different platform you'd prefer. Don't worry about the technical aspects of interacting with the judge; it's quite simple once you're used to it, and you get used to it quickly.

Ranior March 20th, 2017 04:16 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I don't know much about what platforms people prefer. I've looked over BGG for some discussion and this thread seems to be the best thus far: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/980...-online/page/1

The issue is that's pretty few poll respondents. So not sure how much value there is. Years ago I played with friends through webdiplmacy: http://webdiplomacy.net/
and also some through playdiplomacy: http://www.playdiplomacy.com/

Overall though it's a mess with how many different sites there are and the player base is therefore quite spread out.

From my reading of the threads, these are my main takeaways:

DPjudge: The Pros are that it supports many map and rules variants. Also tends to have a stable player base loaded with more veterans of the game and therefore has fewer dropouts that plague other sites. Cons are that the player base is fairly small now and the interface is fairly antiquated.

webdiplomacy/playdiplomacy: Both these sites seem quite similar. Both have more modern interfaces for entering orders and displaying things that seem slightly more friendly to new players. Tends to have more active users. Downsides are that both platforms have more limited variants and options it would seem, along with quite a lot more dropouts from an inconsistent player base.

In the end, I don't really care what platform is chosen though, I just would like to play a bit again. No matter what one we choose, it will take just a little bit to get used to it and figure it out as none of the sites are professionally designed and aren't that intuitive. So as you said DS, I'm sure we'd find any of them quite simple to use once we get used to it.

Frankly if the old reliable diplomacy experts think that DPJudge is the best site, I'm fine just giving that a try.

Dad_Scaper March 20th, 2017 04:30 PM

Re: Diplomacy
My preference is the DPJudge. I think it will help, given that most of the volunteers are new to the game, to have a neutral GM available for consultation about the rules and the interface.

quozl March 20th, 2017 04:32 PM

Re: Diplomacy

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper (Post 2140765)
My preference is the DPJudge. I think it will help, given that most of the volunteers are new to the game, to have a neutral GM available for consultation about the rules and the interface.

Let us know when you've got it created and how to sign up!

Dad_Scaper March 20th, 2017 04:39 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Sounds good. I'm a bit rusty but I have WD40 for precisely this type of emergency.

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