Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Hmmm... I think that removes all of krsto's nominations, so I'll hold off until told otherwise.

--

Gor'vath by robbdaman

Nice and straight forward, available mini, and no assembly required. I was also looking for a reason to pull out the Arrow Gruts. Yes to review.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I haven't looked at robdaman's nomination yet but here are my thoughts on krysto's...

Asmodeus
Adder's Venom is certainly a thematic ability and it belongs, however, I think too much is packed into it which makes it overkill (probably literally for the poisoned figure). Rolling an attack die for each venom marker makes perfect sense but tossing in rolling an attack die for each wound marker plus the penalties to base stats gets to be too much for a 50 point figure.
I have to vote NO to review.

Blood Raptor
Again, very thematic abilities. However (it seems I like that word), being able to get a not unlikely 3 attacks of 6 per OM for only 90 points seems underpriced.
I have to vote NO to review.

Einar's Centurions
I know this first point will seem nit-picky but bear with me. Centurions were officers in charge of their own "squads" of 80-100 men. They weren't their own squads. Also, the abilities are not thematic for Centurions. It isn't that Centurions were elite, they were the leaders of the common soldier, inspiring them in battle by being in the thick of battle. This squad, for me doesn't capture the essence of what centurions were. It also would give us a HS historical unit whose name is a historically inaccurate portrayal of the unit. A common hero called Roman centurion would be better.
I also see Elite Shield Wall combined with Einar's Finest as too much, not to mention that they bond as well.
I vote NO to review

Gordyyr
Reflective Scales is a fitting ability, however, having it benefit adjacent figures is a little much. It renders common range units ineffective. Who wants to risk firing on multiple figures with ranged counterstrike with a 1 life ranged unit? This wouldn't be as bad if it weren't for Scintillating Fires. While an opponent's common melee are advancing, since his common range are pratically rendered useless, Scintillating Fires will wreak havoc on them.
ordyyr has too much going for him, especially for 145 points.
I vote NO to review

Swarm Gruts
I am not as sure about this unit. I am a little confused with Swarm Tactics. It seems like an almost needless ability. I would rather have 10 figures from which to choose with each OM I reveal than have 5 waiting on the sidelines. However (there is that word again), that is just a personal preference. So, I am going to think over the Swarm Gruts some more before giving my vote.

You have some neat ideas, krysto. The above units show creativity and a nice ability to give thematic flavor to units. Keep pluggin' along.

EDIT:
Arghhh... ninja'd in the worst way! All of that typing for nothing.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I'd say the constructive criticism is still appreciated lama, I know some of the cartographers in the BoV thread would like to hear from all the judges even if the map has been denied review (though sometimes time is a commodity and it doesn't happen).

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I was skeptic that y'all wouldn't be as rigorous as the BoV and wouldn't give detailed critiques because I didn't know of you guys experience. I am very pleased with what I am seeing so far. Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

(This is just more incentive to finish the unit that I am currently testing.)

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

In response to a couple of criticisms of Krysto's units, even though I voted :down: on all of them, I thought it would be fair to him to clear up a couple misunderstandings.

1. The Blood Raptors do not, as I read the card, give 3 attacks per OM. They give one attack and movement of two additional Raptors, which must be adjacent to the targeted attackee. The wording is not horrible but it was, apparently, enough to confuse a couple of my fellow judges which is not a great recommendation for the card either. Also even with only one attack per OM I still think there's way too much going on for a 30 point hero.

2. Swarm Gruts
At 50 points and 5/squad, start zone space becomes a real issue for these guys. The "swarm" mechanic appears to be Krysto's clever mechanism for squeezing them into the army. That's why I observed you'd want at least 6, unfortunately, to make 6 of them you'd need to sacrifice 12 squads of Blade Gruts, which is why I voted no. Also, if that's the effect he wanted - to mess with start zone restrictions - that probably should have been on the card.

I do not think it's a coincidence at all that, of the eight units we have now considered reviewing, it's the one with the *fewest words* that appears to be the first that may get to the review process.

Thank you for the kind words. It is my personal goal that units we approve are worthy to be on the tabletop of anyone who plays this game, and that's a high standard.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

ALERT - random KC theoryscape ramblings about proposed figures coming!

Asmodeus - I actually like the look, feel and power level of this guy. When compared to Me-Burq-Sa, I don't think he's much stronger, if at all. He doesn't have range (which greatly weakens his 2 special powers compared to MBS) and has pretty low survivability, but would be a fun and balanced figure, I think. I don't know that Arrow Gruts need all these new bonding heroes, though.

Blood Raptor - Again, not sure that the Arrow Gruts need any more, but I really like this guy, too. The wording on Pack Hunting needs work though ("the same figure" bugs me - maybe "the attacked figure?" I'd have to go look at the Grok Riders card as they have a similar mechanic). I don't think it's too powerful for the points, and I like that you can move 2 you didn't activate, since that gives me incentive to play more than one.

Gordyrr - This guy is broken at 145 Points. Straight up broken. He has a super Queglix Gun and Evil Eye Protection that works against any attack, plus he flies. No way.

Swarm Gruts - 10 figures for 50 Points, and they dodge start zone restrictions? Super broken. Even worse than Gordyrr.

Centaurions - These guys probably aren't too strong for their points, but I don't really see a practical use for them alongside Romans - there's just too many figures. I don't think they're broken, but I just don't really like them I guess...

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Yeah, if the intent was that the figures could only move and not attack than the wording is confusing since it states that the moved figures must end their move engaged to the same figure as the original attacking figure. When speaking of moving to engage a figure that usually means attacking it.
So, I concede my misunderstanding. Of course an ability that easily misunderstood (I say that only because I wasn't the only one to misunderstand it) shows a need for some wordsmithing.

Thanks for chiming in, KC!
His low survivability and non-range are what, I think, keeps him from being broken; I agree with you on those points. Where I think he doesn't pass muster is that his Adder's Venom is too good, IMHO. If it was simply rolling an attack die for each venom marker, or reducing M,R,A, and D for each venom marker I think I could have gone for that. But having both of those plus rolling an attack die for each wound marker just seemed to be too much.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Thanks for checking in, KC.

This is a very interesting observation because, looking at the card, I can see how you would read it that way. I don't *think* it's what Krysto intended, I think for every squad in your start zone you *may* purchase another squad & keep it out of the start zone, but it's yet another way to misunderstand one of Krysto's cards.

I really like many of his ideas, but it's telling that, of the 5 cards, there have been drastically different readings of the operation of powers on 3 of them.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

That is why I held off my vote on them. I wanted to know exactly what was meant. If it was 10 figs for 50 points- no way. If it was purchasing 50 points of figs to sit on the sidelines, I didn't understand the need for it. The AE and Rechets of Bogdan are different since you must place them on the sidelines at the beginning, it is not an option. However, since that is a personal play preference I would have been open to them. However, since my fellow judges voted no, it was a moot point to seek an answer to my question.

As I stated in my original post on krysto's figs, I am in agreement with DS, I really like krysto's ideas. He needs to keep creating for sure.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1263342) Quote: Originally Posted by DaddyScaper (Post 1263277) In response to a couple of criticisms of Krysto's units, even though I voted on all of them, I thought it would be fair to him to clear up a couple misunderstandings.

That was my concern as well, I like the idea, but the power is confusing and the way I read it was too powerful. Thanks DS, for straightening me out, and I like how it works…but it needs a point increase and some wordsmithing before the review process.

That’s what I had problem with as well LC. It’s venom was too powerful in my opinion for only 50 points.

Also thanks KC for your input…please feel free to stop by at anytime ;)

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I agree Krysto has some cool ideas, but the execution needs to be polished.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I forgot...
I like the simplicity and up-frontness (is that a word :confused:) of Gor'vath.
YES to review.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

All of krysto2002's nominations except for the Swarm Gruts have received at least 3 NOs and are therefore removed from the process.

robbdaman's Gor'Vath has received more than the required 4 YES votes needed to move on to being reviewed. Congrats! :thumbsup:

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

In regards to the Addver Venom hate:

Remember that Venom ONLY works against multi-life heroes, though, and he still has to push a wound through with his attack of 3, and he has to actually make it into engagement without Disengage. Against squads, it's completely useless and, on top of that, his paralyzing stare isn't very effective against squad figures either. Plus, if he poisons a hero with a Special Attack, the range and attack nerfs don't even work.

With just 3 life and 3 defense, squads are going to rip this guy to shreds long before he can engage a big hero to use his powers. Raelin will help, his it's tough since he's melee to keep her around, plus I think she has better things to do than boost a 50 Point hero.

I still don't think the Arrow Gruts need the bonding, though. Swogs, Krug, Mimring and the Ice Troll are more than enough IMO.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Don't forget Gor'vath's Character Bio: Reveling in destruction and driven to ensue chaos Gor'Vath was a double edged sword discovery for Utgar. Gor'Vath's mere presense to his enemies and allies make them sick to their stomach. For this reason alone few in Utgar's army wish to battle along side of him though they understand his purpose and usefulness. Gor'Vath wades into battle his only pleasure is in crushing all who he opposes.

I think the Arrow Gruts could use him well, in my own playtesting he made them more effective with his Fetid ability. Their one dice of attack more often allowed them to kill off other squad units. Squads like Krav Maga, Stingers, 4th and 10th still tear them up and jack up Gor'vath too.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I would like to nominate my own Priscus, Gladiator Hero.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...422_549996.jpg
Soldiers of Valhalla Induction Reports for Priscus


Criteria

Additional information in regards to Priscus (including a painting guide, suggested armies, and other playtesting feedback) can be found at my customs thread.

NOTE: I originally playtested Priscus by painting a red crest on the helmet of one of my Capuans. For those wanting to only slightly alter their chosen Capuan sculpt, this could be an easy way to 'create' Priscus, while still using the sculpt as a Capuan squad member (you can always swap out the sculpt for your first casualty of the game).

Thanks in advance for the consideration!

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

:thumbsup: I think all nominations should be like this, explaining the costing and how he is usable and not just a copy of another hero.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Check out FtC's thread. He goes even further there. He does a very good job of thinking through his creations.

NOTE:
This is not a Yes to review vote, yet. Just lauding FtC's attention to detail.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Priscus by Filthy

Simple = better. Yes to review.

My only reservation is that I would have to 'destroy' one of my Capuan squads to use him. Would love to see some alternative sculpts if they're out there.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

NYYS, I was wondering if a little paint might be enough to satisfy the needs of both cards. Skip the scissors, paint with a light touch, and you have a sculpt that maybe could go both ways.

Anyway, a big :up: to review from me for Priscus.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

This is what happens when I turn my back for a few seconds...
Sorry about Gordyrr, he is actually supposed to be around 185-195, that's a typo I'm glad someone caught.

As for the argument to Asmodeus' name... people, go out and read more! Asmodeus Poisonteeth is the giant adder (by comparison) from Redwall, so take that up with Brian Jaques, not me. The cards do all need rewording, but since I only get 1-2 comments on my actual cards that's pretty tough to do. He's also very fragile, considering he's smaller, slower and weaker all around the MBS, so if he even get close enough to a hero to poison it, then it's probably the fault of the player for allowing themselves to fall in such a position... that's just me.

Next, as for the AG bonding, that is something I pointed out, but it is not the intent of the units (even though someone just pointed out that another nominated unit would do well with AGs...). I was not looking to fill a niche, it is the class I best thought fit the unit, in fact I have another squad coming (eventually).
Not to mention the majority of the NO's came from the exact same people, multiple times, who were well mistaken on quite a few points. I'm willing to reword, the core function is what I'm proposing to you guys. You're walls of text simplified down to the no just seem a bit off to me.

The Einar's Centurions I decided to rename Einar's Finest and change the ability name, as well as reduce the effect of some abilities.

The blood raptors are meant to be a cheap easy to collect unit that would be fun to play. Their only function aside from the normal ability of moving and attacking is their ability to call other raptors to their side, which doesn't HAVE to be the attacked unit, just one the attacker is engaged with.

I don't see why some of you still seem to hate some of these units, if yu want me to touch them up, that is my purpose for showing them to you, since with no feedback I have no way of doing so. Now I know, so if any of you like the general unit, just say so and I'll fix it as need be.

Sorry for the rant, this is, yet again, another terrible day for me.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I took a closer look at Priscus...
:thumbsup: to review.

If an alternate fig is out there it would be nice as I am gladiatorally challenged (I only have one squad). If not, DS' solution works fine. However, great job on giving instructions for the repaint!

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Krysto, please don't worry too much about criticism your units have received here.

My sense is there is something else going on outside your 'Scape customs right now, and that something is bothering you a fair bit. I hope whatever it is resolves in the right way and in a good way for you.

I think your customs were good and each one had some very interesting mechanics.

It's good to see you are aware that the language needs to be tightened on some of them. I wonder whether you weren't also in places putting too many good ideas on one card.

Anyway, you mustn't, mustn't, mustn't feel bad. As I wrote earlier in the thread, the board is loaded with quality, fun customs that might just not make the cut here because we are looking for something else. You *had* interesting mechanics and good sculpts. What I think you hadn't done sufficiently, in broad terms, is edit.

Peel away the extra stuff to make a card that is more sleek and easier to understand. Or, in the alternative, keep doing what you're doing and have fun with it, because your customs are fun and should not be a chore. Don't let us get in the way of doing what brings you satisfaction.

Don't feel bad, for heaven's sake.

Cheers!

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

YES to review Priscus.

Filthy the Clown's Priscus has received 4 YES votes, so it moves on to being reviewed. Congrats. :thumbsup:


I'm sorry if you misunderstood the purpose of the SoV, krysto, but it is not to help refine works-in-progress. We are here to identify custom units that are ready to play.

As far as judges voting no multiple times, you nominated multiple units, and each judge has to vote on each one.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

They don't hate them, they just aren't perfect. This group is like the BoV, they just take tested units that have been well worded and test them to make sure they are fair. If you want your units worked on and corrected, thats what the CHCG24 is for.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I would, but not only was the last attempt close to a disaster and took far longer then needed due to the recent "news", but since I cannot nominate on my own units, I must rely on another member to pick mine, not to mention it has to be one of these. No, at the moment I do not think there is a group that can efficiently provide more than plain, old feedback.

I would love to perfect these units, do not get me wrong, I just need people to give me feedback, of which I just got plenty, though most of it was the (as my psych teacher calls it) "bad" feedback, lacking possible suggestions or advice. However, I did receive plenty of "good" feedback, of which I am currently working off of.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Nomination from my own set of customs...

:: ZOMBIKAZES v.2::
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgaller...es_revised.jpg
Click image for larger version
Figures used: Mage Knight's Detonating Zombie (3)

I think all the information required for nomination is there. Let me know if there is something I overlooked and forgot to include.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

After some discussion we've decided to implement a limit of one nomination per post, so choose wisely. ;)

Edit: You put you're H3X symbol where we are planning on putting our SoV symbol, so I vote NO to review. :p Not really. Awesome minis. Let me ponder a little, and I'll get back with a real vote.

Edit edit: As I was pondering I became worried about how an all-melee army would handle facing these guys, and started to think that 60 points was way too cheap, until I realized that it wouldn't be too difficult to start off a chain reaction where a Zombikaze army obliterates itself. I don't think I can fairly judge them without playing them, so I vote YES to review (plus they look cool, and have a d20 power-two of my HS weaknesses :kryptonite:).

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Hi Krysto...tcg is right this is the BoV of customs. We are not going to polish before proceeding, but what I'm going to try to di is make further comments and suggestions in the author's thread. I did that for Therian and was planning to that tonight for you as well...but you submitted 5 entries at one time and I have a lot of notes to go through, before I post in your thread.

I made this commitment with every intention to be more involved in the Custom community and I hope I will be able to help you and others in the future.


---------------------------------------------------------

Now on to business:

H3X, I've always have liked your Zomikazes and would be honored to test them for the SoV. - My vote is Yes

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Zombikazes by hextr1p

These guys are way too cool to not give a try. Yes to review.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Oh my god that is awesome. How could I not vote :up: to reviewing Zombikazes?

On a serious note, readers of this thread may wish to take a moment and look at how well hextr1p described two complex abilities.

There are a couple of things that make these powers easy to understand. The language is clear and simple. You may also note there is relatively little punctuation, and frequent use of terms and phrases we know from other cards. This is an excellent example of a card with complex but *well written* abilities.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

You guys are 100% correct. I'm pulling all of my customs back and starting a freelance feedback thread for that exact purpose.
So to anyone who wants to polish up their units, check it out, the 3FG is ready to go!

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

You'd think Hex had some experience working on cards or something. ;)

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

hextr1p's Zombikazes have received more than the required 4 YES votes needed to move on to being reviewed. Congrats! :thumbsup:

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Good for you, Krysto, I think a quality workshopping thread would work very well with this project and I look forward to seeing what you guys do.

Good luck, godspeed, don't be a stranger, etc. :)

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Well, I missed getting to accept hextr1p's Zombikazes for review but I will definitely not miss out on getting to playtest them!
They look fun!

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Excellent! I feel privileged to have this squad playtested by you all, and I thank you for the compliments thus far. I look forward to your critiques, and welcome any and all comments, as I know they'll be constructive.

Killometer, I can understand your concern about possible low point cost. But movement and positioning of this slow and volatile squad can be tough at times. Using 'Exhume' is often key to getting the squad closer to enemy units. But then there is limited possibility for 'Exhume' to go off. There is also the tactic of positioning your own ranged units properly to then destroy a 'Zombikaze' to initiate 'Ka-Boom' if the enemy is smart enough not to engage the zeds with melee units. Really, these zeds can work against you just as much as for you if you're not careful with them. But in my experience, that only adds to the fun of this squad! :D

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

The only issue I have at the moment with the Zombikazes is that the sculpt appears to be difficult to find. Any chance there are some alternative sculpts?

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I just got some last night but it seems those were the last ones anywhere. Alternative sculpts would be great.

EDIT:
After doing some searching I have found other sites with detonating zombies for sale. You have to be diligent but they are out there.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

It does seem to be really hard to find, although that's only a problem if you want SoV customs to be widely played (or if you find that the zombikazies are very powerful, because you really don't want something at the top of the power rankings to be extremely hard to find). There's also the question of whether it's an issue for SoV for a squad to have all identical sculpts. Just something you have to decide.

The phrasing of "Kaboom!" is also breaking new ground - currently, the only time you roll defense dice is when you are attacked, and "Kaboom!" is not an attack. I don't really think it's confusing, although it produces some unusual corner cases (Stealth Dodge and Adjacent Tough work; cell divide and warforged resolve don't). Again, just something you have to consider.

When it comes to actual gameplay, though, they look like a blast (ha). My only concern is that they seem much harder on melee armies than range, for obvious reasons. In particular, a couple squads of these guys are basically an autowin in endgame against any melee hero.

hextr1p, I hope you don't mind the commentary; please realize that when I think a custom is bad I try to keep my mouth shut. It's a very cool concept for a squad.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

I definitely prefer HS' norm of having different sculpts for each squad member; it just looks so much better on the battlefield.

Unfortunately, it seems most of the affordable miniatures games didn't go this route.

In this Fanscape era we are entering we may have to settle for many squads having the same sculpt for each figure. :(

If they make it to endgame you might be right.
I think that is a fair trade off, however, for the chance you take on having these guys in your army. Your opponent could easily use these guys to wreak havoc on your own army.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Wow, work picks up for a bit and I come back to find a lot has occurred. I missed some fun discussions and now have some units to test.

I didn't go back and count, but is the OP is correct and the Swarm Gruts are still up for review, I vote No to review them.

They do look like a lot of fun, but I agree that the wording is not clear enough, especially about the start zone issue. Normally units off the battlefield count toward the total, so the only thing gained (I believe) is that they are not initially available to be bombed and they may appear at the front (or other advantageous part) of the start zones.

That may be enough to make them interesting, but I don't feel they add enough to the game to be considered for the SoV.

krysto2002, you have creative units. I encourage you to thing through costs and clarity of powers. Two things that will help with this is running some playtests (you may want to look at how the C3G runs theirs) and sharing your work with others, asking them to repeat back to you what they think your powers do--and see how well they do. Also, look at current units and carefully read and follow them as models.

I think with a bit more practice, you can create some very innovative and fun units.

Glad to see the SoV starting off with a Bang! :)

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

krysto2002's Swarm Gruts have received a third NO vote and are removed from the process.

Availability is actually one of our judging criteria specifically so that the units we induct can be widely played.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Just a little bit on the Zombiekazes....

I really like the unit thematically. There's no doubt that it's just cool.

I think Kaboom! needs revisited, though. As dok pointed out, we've never had a power that used combat dice to deal damage that wasn't a Special Attack. It isn't that it's not possible, but it just isn't consistent with how the other units have been modeled.

I don't know how competitive I think they'd be. They're really slow, and while they do get a lot of attacks against a melee army, they're still relatively weak attacks. Against melee, it almost seems like the squad should focus almost entirely on Exhume while letting Kaboom! do the attacking. Definitely interesting, though.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

The last line of Kaboom! is "All affected figures roll defense seperately", so I'm assuming that all affected figures get to attempt a defense roll. ;)

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Priscus - My vote is Yes to review.


I'm going to use one of my modified Spartacus figures:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...051_edited.jpg

Its an easy Mod and Spartacus can still be found in singles.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

Yeah I missed that on the first read and went back and edited. I think I'd still like it to be some sort of auto-wound though to keep it in line with figs like 7K and the Frost Giant.

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion
 

My apologies for throwing a wrench in the works, but I have changed the wording on Priscus's card.

The CHCG24 recently nominated Priscus and subsequently offered some changes to the verbiage to the card. The changes are cosmetic in nature, but potentially offer a bit more clarity and consistency to the wording of Priscus' abilities.

Specifically, here are the changes:


While I don't feel that the proposed changes are a necessity for the card, I also respect the CHCG24's suggestions for clarity and consistency. Consequently, I have updated Priscus' card with their suggestions ( all existing images of the card have been updated). I understand if this means that I must resubmit Priscus for approval.