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-   -   The Book of Death Mask (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=59400)

Ronin July 20th, 2021 09:04 PM

The Book of Death Mask
 
The Book of Death Mask

C3G MARVEL CON EXCLUSIVE 2021
RELEASE NAME


http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...Mask_comic.png
Comic PDF

http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...hMask_mini.png
Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the WizKids Promos: 2013 Convention Exclusive set.
Its model number and name are #M-007 / Death Mask.

_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - In a world where Wade Wilson has the powers and ambition of Doctor Doom, he rules a vast criminal empire.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:
  • N/A
Outgoing Synergy:
  • N/A
Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Ronin July 20th, 2021 09:05 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
NAME = DEATH MASK
SECRET IDENTITY = WADE WILSON (CO)

SPECIES = MUTATE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = MASTERMIND
PERSONALITY = AMBITIOUS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 500


TAKE DOWN THE BIG BOYS
At the start of each round, if Death Mask does not have a Target on the battlefield, you must choose an enemy figure on the battlefield with the highest Life number listed on its card to be his Target. When Death Mask's Target is destroyed, place it on this card. Add 1 to Death Mask's Life number for each Target on this card.

CRIMINAL MASTERMIND GUY
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Death Mask, you may take a turn with a Unique Hero you control that is an Assassin or Criminal. You may not take additional turns with figures other than Death Mask. After each figure's turn, if Death Mask's Target received at least one wound during that turn, roll an unblockable attack die against the Target.

BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY
Instead of moving and attacking with Death Mask, roll one combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. For each skull rolled, remove a Wound Marker from this card. For each shield rolled, you must choose Death Mask or a figure adjacent to Death Mask to receive a wound.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING

Ronin July 20th, 2021 09:05 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Mini:


Comic:

Ronin July 20th, 2021 09:08 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
We left off at the con still talking through some ideas on how to marry Regeneration and the last power - I know Jekyll had something people liked, but I was far too sleepy at the time to properly digest it or remember it now.

I know there was also some pushback on the Regeneration mechanics here since Deadpool is a passive healer - personally I don't mind that on Wade (or weird riffs on Wade) because his healing tends to work however is funniest, and you get prolonged scenes of him sticking bodyparts back together and suchlike. :2cents:

I also worry a bit that moving away from the Regeneration mechanic might take some of the dynamism away from boosting Life, but that'd probably depend on what we moved to. Something to keep in mind though.

Arkham July 20th, 2021 09:48 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
While flying, I had an idea. What about something like this to sell both of those themes:
Quote:

RUTHLESS REGENERATION
Instead of attacking with Death Mask, roll one combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. For each:
ē skull rolled, you may remove a Wound Marker from this card.
ē blank rolled, you may move a Wound Marker from this card to the card of an adjacent figure.

Ronin July 20th, 2021 09:50 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
I could get behind that.

Arkham July 20th, 2021 09:54 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY or another title could also work. Regenerating, hurting the enemy to heal himself, or if necessary, using his allies to do it.

Soundwarp SG-1 July 20th, 2021 10:01 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
I think you need something to clarify the size of the window the Target needs to receive wounds in for the unblockables.

"At the end of that Hero's turn and at the end of Death Mask's turn, if Death Mask's Target received at least one wound during that turn, roll an unblockable attack die against the Target."

something like that.

--

Yeah I think the best idea here is just to do "Regeneration that can eat people" in some way since right now the two 'healing' powers feel a bit odd and redundant.

I was thinking of a sorta similar idea, but one where you could nom on your own dudes to salvage a botched Regen roll if you're looking for other options:

BETTER REGENERATION THROUGH EATTING PEOPLE
Instead of attacking with Death Mask, roll one combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. Then, you may choose any number of figures you control adjacent to Deathmask and inflict one wound on each of those figures. For each skull rolled and each wound inflicted, you may remove a Wound Marker from this card.

Dr. Jekyll July 20th, 2021 10:14 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkham (Post 2473880)
While flying, I had an idea. What about something like this to sell both of those themes:
Quote:

RUTHLESS REGENERATION
Instead of attacking with Death Mask, roll one combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. For each:
ē skull rolled, you may remove a Wound Marker from this card.
ē blank rolled, you may move a Wound Marker from this card to the card of an adjacent figure.

Really dig this :up:. I was thinking up some names for the powers here.
POWER HUNGRY for the first and maybe DARK DEALINGS for the second?

Dr. Jekyll July 20th, 2021 10:20 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 (Post 2473884)
"At the end of that Hero's turn and at the end of Death Mask's turn, if Death Mask's Target received at least one wound during that turn, roll an unblockable attack die against the Target."

something like that.

Yeah, this is a good idea.

Ronin July 20th, 2021 10:28 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Yeah, worthwhile clarification. :up:

Also digging the SW spin on sacrificing people for Regeneration.

Spidey'tilIDie July 21st, 2021 03:28 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Wow, shocker. Getting sleep created some great ideas, lol. Really love this design, btw!

MrNobody July 21st, 2021 03:47 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Cool design!

Ronin July 21st, 2021 01:28 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Preferences between the SW idea/Ark idea?

Dr. Jekyll July 21st, 2021 02:07 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2473977)
Preferences between the SW idea/Ark idea?

I think you would get more bang for your buck out of SW's. I dig the mechanic of not just relying on the skulls, but also adjacent figures. Being able to place them on an enemy's adjacent figures would be cool (I know that's not how it works, but just a thought for later.)

I think going with Ark's power name and SW's power would work great.

IAmBatman July 21st, 2021 06:19 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Y'all are working to address the major thing that stuck out to me. :up: I like both Ark's and SW's takes.

Lord Pyre July 21st, 2021 06:23 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
I like the fixes! I think I have a very slight preference to SW's, but both are solid.

Arkham July 21st, 2021 06:29 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Cool with SW’s as well.

Ronin July 21st, 2021 11:46 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Initial)
 
Alright, sounds like we've got a very slight lean toward the SW spin, so let's go to initial with that.

IAmBatman July 21st, 2021 11:51 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Initial)
 
yea

Arkham July 21st, 2021 11:59 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Initial)
 
yea

Tornado July 22nd, 2021 07:49 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Initial)
 
Yea

tcglkn July 22nd, 2021 09:32 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (VOTE for Initial)
 
Yea

Ronin July 22nd, 2021 10:41 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
This passes

I can hit him Friday evening/Saturday morning. Up for grabs if someone else wants to keep him moving faster than that!

tcglkn July 22nd, 2021 02:05 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Should list your group who brainstormed this in the OP like I did in the threads I started for history sake. :)

Ronin July 22nd, 2021 02:10 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Sure, what the hey!

japes July 22nd, 2021 04:23 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Didnít know these were posted. Iíll catch up but I wanted to say that Iím not completely happy with the last power. It makes it feel more like a life drain thing since itís based on wounds given.

Perhaps something like each skull rolled may be used to heal or inflict a wound?

Ronin July 23rd, 2021 12:03 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
It's only partially based on wounds given - there is a life drain aspect to it, but that's mainly just to supplement when normal healing isn't getting the job done. I like that because it feels like doing a Doom thing when you're not Deadpooling well enough.

Sounds like you're more liking the kind of thing Ark suggested though?

japes July 24th, 2021 12:40 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2474294)
It's only partially based on wounds given - there is a life drain aspect to it, but that's mainly just to supplement when normal healing isn't getting the job done. I like that because it feels like doing a Doom thing when you're not Deadpooling well enough.

Sounds like you're more liking the kind of thing Ark suggested though?

pretty much, yeah.

Ronin July 25th, 2021 11:00 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by japes (Post 2474393)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2474294)
It's only partially based on wounds given - there is a life drain aspect to it, but that's mainly just to supplement when normal healing isn't getting the job done. I like that because it feels like doing a Doom thing when you're not Deadpooling well enough.

Sounds like you're more liking the kind of thing Ark suggested though?

pretty much, yeah.

I think I'm leery of that because it feels like such a big pivot mechanically. Like it goes from a "keep this guy back and in position and safe" thing to a "get this guy up in the opponent's face" thing.

japes July 25th, 2021 07:34 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
The "throw your teammates under the bus" portion of the mechanic is one I'm most fine with losing honestly. The other two powers are the meat.

ACTIVE HEALING (or something to keep him out of HFX and other Hub teams)
After revealing an OM on this card you may remove a Wound Marker from this card.

and reusing this...

CRIMINAL DECEPTION
If a Criminal figure you control is within clear line of sight of Lex Luthor, Lex Luthor cannot be attacked and he will not take any leaving engagement attacks

Both way shorter than what's in the OP and gets the same idea across?

Or new idea...make it a gamble

ACTIVE HEALING
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may reveal the X Order Marker to heal X wounds. X is the number of revealed OM on this card.

So it could be 4 per round like HFX figures but if you get hit hard earlier you can burn it to heal a few wounds earlier.

Ronin July 25th, 2021 07:45 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Thematically I don't really get Criminal Deception here. Like, that's a power that says to me that Lex is going "I'm totally legit, that guy over there is the real threat!" and that's not really something Death Mask does.

I think mechanically that's moving us back toward what people originally took issue with, having multiple tools that do the same job.

I really like throwing teammates under the bus because it checks out as both a Deadpool thing and a Doom thing.

I'm also a little confused about the suggested changes to the healing mechanic - I thought your complaint was about being able to do the 'life drain' thing in addition to the healing, so I'm not sure why we're also changing the healing?

(Hope you don't feel like you're getting shut down here - just trying to articulate what I like about the current direction. Holding off on the initial while we talk this through, not looking to blow past your issues with it)

japes July 27th, 2021 07:42 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
I think for me since the wounding comes, not when defending an attack, but on his own attack phase it feels too much like a life drain power and not a throw a teammate in the line of fire, in which case you lose the one power that felt Deadpool-y...the healing.

That's my thoughts in a nut shell.

Ronin July 27th, 2021 08:09 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
How would you feel if the power otherwise had the same mechanics as the SP, but it triggered once a round for free (maybe on an X reveal) instead of being an 'instead of attacking' thing?

Ronin August 18th, 2021 11:36 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
@japes ^ Bump on the above question.

Sorry, completely lost track of this one between one thing and another! Would like to get this moving again though.

japes August 19th, 2021 02:31 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
So you mean something like this?

BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY
At the end of the round you may reveal the XOM on this card. If you do, roll one combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. Then, you may choose any number of figures you control adjacent to Death Mask and inflict one wound on each of those figures. For each skull rolled and each wound inflicted, you may remove a Wound Marker from this card.

Honestly, not really. I'm having trouble seeing it as a throw his minions in front of the bullet so to speak and more lets take life away there to heal it here.

I'm kind of at a loss. Like if we try to represent the healing with just high life then we step all over the keynote first power so that's a no go. We want to avoid HFX for obvious reasons.

We can try something similar to Arkham's Wolverine to represent the healing in a different way and just lose the throw someone in the way part since we aren't really hitting that narratively here anyway.

Ronin August 19th, 2021 03:25 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Personally I think the Regeneration-style healing is a big part of the hook here and I'd be reluctant to move away from it. The healing power as it stands is definitely doing a side of life-drain stuff. Not the main feature, but the life drain theme is in there. It's a different spin on sacrificing people than what we originally had, but it still tracks thematically for me.

Spitballing, here's a third take riffing on Soundwarp's and Ark's:

Quote:

Instead of attacking with Death Mask, roll one combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. For each skull or blank rolled, remove a Wound Marker from this card. For each shield rolled, you must choose Death Mask or a (friendly?) figure adjacent to Death Mask to receive a wound.
Slightly amped-up spin (healing on blanks now), but with some potential blowback on Death Mask that you can have someone else absorb. Or you can just risk it. There's still that Doom-y "playing with fire" layer on top (amping the power level but with a possible downside if you're not careful), but it's solidly a healing power vs any kind of life drain thing.

IAmBatman August 19th, 2021 08:13 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
I can dig it. :up:

Arkham August 19th, 2021 08:14 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Looks fun to me.

Ronin August 20th, 2021 12:20 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Promising initial feedback! Any thoughts from @japes ? Also any takes on the friendly restriction I wasn't sure about in there?

japes August 20th, 2021 02:17 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
I like that actually.

I’m ok either way on the friendly.

Arkham August 20th, 2021 03:12 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Good with either. I’d imagine it’s just a matter of points really more than balance. May lean towards leaving it open as it creates more strategic placement opportunities.

Ronin August 20th, 2021 06:40 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Awesome! Any other thoughts/feelings/concerns? (From anyone, but particularly calling out @Dr. Jekyll as the last member of the initial brainstorm group)

Dr. Jekyll August 20th, 2021 07:22 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Sorry I haven't commented here in a while. I really dig that power, I think it would be cool to leave out the friendly part. Having him put wounds on anyone while attempting to heal would be fun and make some opponents think twice about engaging him. Either way, it sounds pretty cool and is going in a good direction.

Ronin August 20th, 2021 09:39 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
Right on! Updated the SP. Will plan on knocking an initial out this weekend.

japes August 21st, 2021 01:12 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Wait for Initial)
 
woo hoo.

SirGalahad August 22nd, 2021 08:51 AM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2473867)
CRIMINAL MASTERMIND GUY
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Death Mask, you may take a turn with a Unique Hero you control that is an Assassin or Criminal. You may not take additional turns with figures other than Death Mask. At the end of that Hero's turn and at the end of Death Mask's turn, if Death Mask's Target received at least one wound during that turn, roll an unblockable attack die against the Target.

BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY
Instead of attacking with Death Mask, roll one combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. For each skull or blank rolled, remove a Wound Marker from this card. For each shield rolled, you must choose Death Mask or a figure adjacent to Death Mask to receive a wound.

Sorry, late to the party.

Clarifying questions:

The "during that turn" seems like it could cause confusion. Is it referring to the Criminal/Assassin's turn, Death Mask's turn, or the player's turn?

Potential questions (with my understanding of the answers). If these aren't what everyone else is thinking, please advise.

The unblockable against the Target only gets rolled if you take the additional turn with the Assassin/Criminal and the Target received a wound during either the Assassin/Criminal's turn or Death Mask's turn?
(YES)

Target = Superman

OM1 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who wounds Target. Death Mask attacks but does not wound Target. Roll the unblockable?
(YES)

OM2 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who does not wound Target. Death Mask attacks and wounds Target. Roll the unblockable?
(YES)

OM3 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who does not wound Target. Death Mask engages Target and uses BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, wounding Target. Roll the unblockable?
(YES)

Thank you for aiding with an old man's feeble-mindedness. :grandfather:

Ronin August 22nd, 2021 08:09 PM

Re: The Book of Death Mask (Design)
 
(Allowing that this isn't really a Ronin LD, my understanding of our intent here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirGalahad (Post 2477645)
The "during that turn" seems like it could cause confusion. Is it referring to the Criminal/Assassin's turn,

Yes

Quote:

Death Mask's turn,
Yes.

Quote:

or the player's turn?
No.

Quote:

Potential questions (with my understanding of the answers). If these aren't what everyone else is thinking, please advise.

The unblockable against the Target only gets rolled if you take the additional turn with the Assassin/Criminal and the Target received a wound during either the Assassin/Criminal's turn or Death Mask's turn?
No. No activation required, happens at the end of each figure's (Death Mask and anyone activated with CMG's) turn.

Quote:

Target = Superman

OM1 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who wounds Target. Death Mask attacks but does not wound Target. Roll the unblockable?
Roll at the end of Lex's turn. Do not roll at the end of Death Mask's turn.

Quote:

OM2 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who does not wound Target. Death Mask attacks and wounds Target. Roll the unblockable?
Do not roll at the end of Lex's turn. Roll at the end of Death Mask's turn.

Quote:

OM3 on Death Mask, takes turn with Battlesuit Lex who does not wound Target. Death Mask engages Target and uses BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, wounding Target. Roll the unblockable?
Same as previous.

It seems like you're interpreting what's in the SP:

Quote:

At the end of that Hero's turn and at the end of Death Mask's turn, if Death Mask's Target received at least one wound during that turn, if yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah
As something more like:

Quote:

At the end of your player turn, if Death Mask's Target received at least one wound during that turn, if yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah.
Open to suggestions if that's a common reading of the power. Could easily phrase it more like:

Quote:

After taking a turn with Death Mask or any Hero activated by this special power, if yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah.


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