Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@TREX *Bonks head* duh! phew can tell it's late here.

God and Demigod (no space) edited in original post

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok guys first of all I would like to apologize. I definatley was not thinking when I put my variants in the display thread and have since removed them. Also I would like to apologize for the whole glyph thing. I do not personally own any official treasure glyphs and I could not seem to find images of them here so the only reference I had when making the glyph cards were the treasure glyphs we have done thus far for the HoF. My apologies again.

A thought on the Boots of Hermes would this be more official bold part is my edit

PERMANENT GLYPH
Before moving, you may choose to have this figure use Boots Of Hermes to add 3 to its Move and for the duration of the turn never be attacked for leaving an engagement.

GODLY ARTIFACT
After using any special power on this Glyph, if this figure is not a God or Demigod, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, inflict 1 wound to this figure. Only one copy of Boots Of Hermes may ever be on any Army Card you control.

Update It
 

Looks solid. Updated with the most official wording I could find based on research from last night. Look up about three posts for other options we could use but these make the most sense to me.

~Dysole, updatingly

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Dysole , the format looks good to me. If everyone is ok with it, I don't see why we can't continue onward with the other glyphs.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Next week I'm going to be playing in a four player game where each player has to choose at least two units from HoF. It'll be nice to see these designs hit the table.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Taeblewalker , I have been a huge fan of Ezio, and Katniss. I just got a ton of the other figures in to make mods for the other figures.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Dysole
I think disengage wording is "never be attacked..."
Warforged Soldiers use it and so do Goblin Cutters

And I think "this figure may use" is better than "you may choose to have this figure use"

And I'm fine with "this figure receives 1 wound" but I think I prefer "inflict 1 wound to this figure" ala Pelloth. The latter feels more like a zap from above to me

Sounds Good
 

Good to know. I couldn't find one but I appreciate the double check. Inflict the wound is only used for an attack. Is there an official wording for traps? That might be the language we want to use.

~Dysole, wordsmithing

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Dysole
After looking through the rulebook, scenario 2 lists it as "this figure receives 1 wound"

I've been thinking about dropping Godly Artifacts and wondering if the clause should be a power on the Artifact's card or on Kratos' Army Card...

BY THE GODS
...If Kratos is destroyed by a Unique Hero, place all Godly Artifacts on this card on the Army Card of the figure that destroyed Kratos.
...If Kratos is destroyed, one at a time, for all Godly Artifacts on this card, choose an opponent's Unique Hero and place a Godly Artifact from this card on the Army Card of the chosen figure.

Just some variants for extra opportunities to add spice. I like the idea of others acquiring the treasure just as Kratos had. And something niggles me about the placing on the same or adjacent spaces thing.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

What happens to the glyphs if Kratos is destroyed by a common hero or a squad figure? Or by lava or falling damage?

This is an interesting idea, but I'm not quite sold on it.

Did we need the Godly treasure glyphs to act differently than normal treasure glyphs? If any of the glyphs Kratos is carrying are destroyed then couldn't we make it so Kratos can just bring them back with his By The Gods special power? :shrug:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Godly Artifacts can act just like normal treasure glyphs when the carrier or Kratos is destroyed. When the figure is destroyed the glyphs go face up on the space or spaces the fallen figure occupied. Therefore the next figure can pick them up. I've never played a game where the figure that destroyed the other figure automatically inherited their glyphs. Personally I like the glyphs just being placed on, or adjacent to the space Kratos was on.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok here is the Boots of Hermes with the most recent text.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...pskmj7mklw.jpg

Edit: Also I updated the Bow of Apollo as well with the new Godly Artifact text (I still prefer Olympian Artifact myself but however the group wants it) and was wondering if we were good with the Bow as it stands.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psx3rcctil.jpg

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The boots wording seems awkward to me. The bow wording seems fine. I think it would be fine for the boots to say "This figure adds three to its Move and is never attacked when leaving an engagement." I know it's been through several incarnations already, but that's what seems to work for me.

Word Wise
 

Boots:

"the" in front of first Boots of Hermes.

Change to "For the duration of the turn never takes leaving engagement attacks."

Godly artifact still has inflict meshed next to another word.

Bow:

Says "destoyed" instead of "destroyed"

If we're modeling it after Sujoah no need for "you may" in front of "roll again".

Last sentence of Special Attack should say "Bow of Apollo Special Attack"

~Dysole, briefly

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

For Godly Artifacts drawback to work, the item must be used. If the bonus were static, it would either happen continuously or once ever or some other murky and unclear way. Thus all these Glyphs must be clearly turned on.

Now then, we could still decide to nix the Godly Artifacts vs Ancient Artifacts altogether. The Godly drawback is not even a feature in the God Of War franchise nor anywhere else really. I can still dig it; just reminding the audience a spades a spade.

@TREX I was wondering if the placing the Godly Artifacts on adjacent spaces was purely a Kratos thing. In your post there you imply you want them to be dropped that way by everybody. Which is fine, perhaps preferable, but it'll need to be worded in the Glyph's card and skipped on Kratos's Army Card.

GODLY ARTIFACT
After using any special power on this card, if this figure is not a God or Demigod, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, this figure receives 1 wound. If ever this figure is destroyed, place one at a time all Godly Artifacts on this figure's Army Card power-side up on spaces this figure previously occupied or on empty spaces adjacent to spaces this figure previously occupied. Godly Artifacts are considered to be Ancient Artifacts in every other way.
(The above is italicized on the card because it is reminder text and not a special power per say)

AMPHIBIOUS (Recent official wording)
If a Sahuagin Raider starts its turn on a water space, add 1 to its movement for that turn.
Translated: Boots Of Hermes: PERMANENT GLYPH
Before moving, this figure may use Boots Of Hermes to add 3 to its movement and to never be attacked for leaving an engagement this turn.

Bow Of Apollo
I don't like its base attack at 4 because that would make it strictly better than Kratos' normal attack/Blades Of Exile. And overall I think it would better if instead of automatic wounds, the fire damage was represented in additional skulls.
Structurally, I don't think that the special attack needs to be named, just that it needs to be stated that it's a special attack.
PERMANENT GLYPH
Special Attack. Range 9. Attack 2 Special.
If the defending figure doesn't have the Lava Resistant special power and you rolled at least 1 skull, roll the 20-sided die for fire damage. If you roll a 16 or higher, add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled and continue rolling the 20-sided die to add skulls until you don't roll a 16 or higher.

Base Attack of 2 to balance out the increased Range of 9, but Attack 3 may also work.

The Bow in the source material has two forms basically, it can fire rapid lower than Blades damage or it can aim and charge up its damage to be greater than Blades. The current version would be closer to the latter. My version is closer to the former. Currently Syvarris uses the best bow in the game at 3/9 this one would be 2/9 with chance of being greater. The lower starting number would reduce the chance of it being "OP" and thus be used as a final shot into the distance as all the nearby figures are dispatched by more consistent weaponry that must be used not at extreme ranges, but also give the excitement of getting multiple skulls to combo into a free go at an additional normal or special attack.
Range 9 with Kratos is a major threat. It's cool because it forces against turtling.

Precedence
 

@Confred name me a special attack that doesn't have a name and I'll relent.

~Dysole, who will have more later

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Dysole currently every special power is named
Except when on any Glyph.
All we get is PERMANENT GLYPH or TEMPORARY GLYPH
I interpret special attacks as special powers
All we get is PERMANENT GLYPH or TEMPORARY GLYPH

Such are my thoughts

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Writing out a special attack without giving it a name is a bit awkward; I would suggest naming the special attack. Gem of Lava Resistance provides a useful precedent here. I would suggest something like:

This figure gains the Searing Arrow Special Attack. Range 9. Attack 2+Special. If the defending figure doesn't have the Lava Resistant...

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Confred , generally we have the glyphs dropped on the space that the figure was destroyed on. On or on an empty adjacent space are both fine with me. The only plus to put them on multiple spaces is when he has a handful on his card, but like I said either works for me. As far as wording goes on the glyphs, I am good with whatever legitimate wording you guys come up with as that is not my cup of tea. As long as it gets the point across on what we want the card to do is all I'm after. It looks like you guys are doing a great job of it. I'm now going to get off of here before I get lynched by my wife.:)(I'm on scapers, and its my wedding anniversary.)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Happy anniversary!

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Having just TEMPORARY or PERMANENT GLYPH is also awkward, but I digress.
It's interesting that gem gives a named power when the disengage one from D&D doesn't. I assume it's because other powers reference Lava Resistance?
I'm good either way, since others want it named, I won't argue. I will argue to keep it in the same format as the gem, with the special power granted be in the same block of text and not bolded.

Opinions on die roll adding skulls vs wounds?
Attack 4? 3? 2?

Another Option
 

We could also do something like the Heat Breath Special Attack on Bizarro's C3G card.

http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...arro_comic.jpg

~Dysole, fine with using the Gem as a template (although it is a bit odd that it doesn't follow the Brooch template)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Progress Report:
Using a suggested alternative to represent fire damage

Edit: I would like to add, Godly Artifacts and their prejudice have grown on me. Without that drawback, Kratos could give his extra treasures to others and keep generating more as long as he personally doesn't have 5.
Probably means more limits are needed in By The Gods.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Confred , I like how you incorporated the Bow of Apollo, I like that version better. It still gives a chance to roll enough skulls to attack again without being too many initial dice at first, So cool. @Taeblewalker , thanks, It will be 11 years for me and my old lady.:)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@TREX I agree, the bow took a fun turn. I like the idea of rolling all those attack dice, fitting for a Good Of War button masher.

BY THE GODS (v1.2)
Start the game with 5 different Godly Artifact Treasure Glyphs. Every time Kratos destroys an opponent’s Unique Hero, place a chosen Glyph on this card.
I don't like the idea of Kratos being a Godly Treasure factory, handing off his goods. This version limits the number to 5 but let's him carry more if somehow more where in the game. He can still hand them out in this version, because Kratos doesn't care about possessions. Limiting to 5 ever should be good enough. Making them different also discourages Kratos handing them out (One for me, one for teammate).
>Phrasing needs review

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

We could just add: Kratos may never drop his Godly Artifacts until he is destroyed. In the game, he never lends out his toys. Button Mashing Combo.:)Now I like it even more.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Current Edition of Kratos

Quote:

KRATOS Demi God Unique Hero Warrior Ruthless Medium 5 Move 6 Range 1 Attack 4 Defense 4 Life 6 BY THE GODS For every Unique Hero Kratos destroys, place a Godly Artifact on this card that has not been previously placed. A maximum of 5 Godly Artifacts may be placed on this card. Godly Artifacts may never be removed from this card until Kratos is destroyed. VENGEANCE OF KRATOS After making a normal or special attack, if Kratos rolled at least 2 skulls, he may attack again with a normal or special attack. Kratos cannot attack more than 4 times per turn. BLADES OF EXILE If an opponent's figure is within 3 spaces of Kratos, and its base is no more than 4 levels above Kratos's height or 4 levels below Kratos's base, Kratos may add 3 to his Range when attacking that figure with a normal attack. CLIMB FROM TARTARUS At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 18 or higher, immediately place Kratos on an empty space on the battlefield that is not higher than the base of any other figure on the battlefield. If Kratos is destroyed and there are no other figures you control left on the Battlefield you may immediately roll for Climb From Tartarus.

CURRENT GODLY ARTIFACTS

Quote:

BOOTS OF HERMES (+3 MOVE, DISENGAGE) GODLY ARTIFACT PERMANENT TREASURE GLYPH Before moving, this figure may use Boots Of Hermes to add 3 to its Move value and to never be attacked for leaving an engagement this turn. GODLY ARTIFACT After using any special power on this card, if this figure is not a God or Demigod, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, this figure receives 1 wound. If ever this figure is destroyed, place one at a time all Godly Artifacts on this figure's Army Card power-side up on spaces this figure previously occupied or on empty spaces adjacent to spaces this figure previously occupied. Godly Artifacts are considered to be Ancient Artifacts in every other way.

Quick Note
 

Treasure glyphs can not be placed on top of other treasure glyphs. That's why you have to choose what to destroy if you're a single hex figure with multiple treasure glyphs.

~Dysole, informationally

Re: Quick Note
 

I didn't know that, Thanks Dysole. So it would work ok to place them on the adjacent spaces then. I'll reword it back to what it was.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sorry have not been here that much, been really busy here but will have time later today and will post updated cards for the Kratos and the 2 Glyphs above.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

More Godly Artifacts
Proposed:
An unintended but interesting note is the use of 3. Boots add 3 to Move, Cestus adds 3 to Attack, Claws add 3 to roll. Not sure how I can keep the theme going, but 3 is a mythic number. The 3 Fates for example.
Proposed:
IF we decide to limit the number of attacks to 4, maybe we'll want an option for that final attack if we feel we cannot close the deal.
BY THE GODS (v3)
Every time Kratos destroys an opponent’s Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact Glyph on this card. Kratos cannot drop Godly Artifacts during movement. By The Gods never places a Glyph that has already been placed this game.
BY THE GODS (v4)
Every time Kratos destroys an opponent’s Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact Glyph on this card. By The Gods can place a maximum of 5 Glyphs on this card.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Nemean Cestus- I like the feel of this card. I would almost rather have him roll 4 attack dice, and get one auto skull. That way he still has a chance to not get to attack again. Also, it might be more fun to just add one additional auto skull to the 7 defense figures and destructible objects. Rolling 3 additional dice almost ensures you get to attack again. The auto skulls are not rolled, so they are not counted for the minimum 2 skulls rolled to attack again. But I agree he should have additional damage against heavy armor and DO objects.
Claws of Hades- I like both ideas. Adding to the Tartarus climb, or summoning a dead hero back. Either of those should be a one time thing. Adding +3 to his Tartarus climb is pretty significant. Also, say you are playing with jotun. Reviving Jotun is also a huge deal. no pun intended. I like the idea, but feel we need to tweak it a little bit so its not too OP.
Head of Helios- Dund 2.0 Its not too bad of an idea, I'm not completely sold on it. In the game he blinds his enemies and then whacks them with something.
By the Gods- Changed the part: By the Gods never places a glyph that has previously been placed this game. I prefer to keep kratos not dropping glyphs until he is destroyed to Kratos connot drop artifacts during movement. Overall, great job on these @Confred .

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Could we make it more like Paralyzing Stare instead?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@McHotcakes , Paralyzing Stare surely makes for a more thematic approach for it. I like that route better. Maybe just for one attack. The first attack perhaps.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Had to look up Paralyzing Stare. I had thought of a version like that and such a function would better fit the source material. I didn't care for the Dund version anyway. With all those attacks, did we want reduced defense? Is that over kill? Overpowered?

@TREX I'm pretty sure automatic skulls added to rolls still count towards the count, kind of like added numbers to a twenty roll count
Attack 5; +auto vs special is OK to me
Attack 3; count skulls twice vs special...
Dunno I like the idea of Cestus being the bread and butter range 1 weapon so = to Exile seems bunk
...Attack 2 auto skull, auto 2 if vs special

Should we separate the revive from the Tartarus roll? So a non-Kratos may use?
PERMANENT TREASURE GLYPH
This figure may use Claws Of Hades to add 3 to its Climb From Tartarus roll. If this figure is destroyed, Claws Of Hades stays on this figure's Army Card.
TEMPORARY TREASURE GLYPH
This figure may use Claws Of Hades to revive a figure. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 16 or higher, gain permanent control of any previously destroyed Unique Hero and its Army Card. Place the chosen figure on any empty space adjacent to this figure and remove all markers from its Army Card. Destroy this Glyph.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Confred , I like the cestus being more powerful than the blades a range 1. I think maybe a attack 5 +an auto skull for the 7 defense and DO objects like you say up there, because he does have to be right up in there. In the game the claws of hades pretty much summon creatures from hades to help him fight. I don't believe they do anything for coming back from the underworld. I think thematically we should take the Tartarus part away. He loses his glyphs when he dies anyways. The second part looks a little more thematic and interesting. Should it be a one time use like say Atlaga's bolt of witherwood. Or get chances to use it until you get to summon a previously slain unit. I would say a unique army card. That way you would get to bring back a hero or a unique squad.
On the Head of Helios we could use it to take away defense on the first attack. I'm not sure if its too much though. Of course it would take the place of another godly artifact. Figure up a way to word the cestus with the auto skull bit to see how it looks. I like the idea of him smashing through doors and armored heroes with them.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok guys here are updated cards for Kratos and the Boots & Bow also was curious are we still doing Icarus' wings in addition to the Claws of Hades, Helios' head and Nemean Cestus?

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...pspqu7owl3.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psmxkyybcs.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psfjtz2ude.jpg

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

For the Bow of Apollo, I think we need to specify that the additional skulls rolled count as unblockable hits.
On the By the Gods power, We can probably do away with the last sentence. I think we cover that angle already in that power in the first line. Other than that the cards look good. Great job @JC McMinis . I updated the card HERE.
We can do the icarus wings, I'm not opposed to them.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I've been sitting on this one and I think that departing from a straight up 5 attack dice may be the way to go. At Range 1, it's still an upgrade and hits from it will still hurt. The Cestus is supposed to smash and crunch, not one-shot. Think of them as boxing gloves, one-two punch.

@JC McMinis Thanks for the card updates. For the items, could you 'shop in " GODLY ARTIFACT " underneath the (item description)?
And "GODLY ARTIFACT" at the bottom isn't a special power. Instead of emboldening the title, would you italicize the whole description, title included?
We'll probably still do the 'Wings, but we tangented to these Glyphs to knock out some easy stuff and the Wings were problematic at the time.

@TREX I know Claws don't give you extra lives in the source. I was thinking if it could revive others, wouldn't it be cool to revive yourself? Start out with a relatively high Climb roll requirement and have option to upgrade every aspect of Kratos, including that roll requirement. Doesn't have to be 3.

Claws Of Hades (v3): Before taking a turn with this figure, this figure may use Claws Of Hades to revive figures. Roll the 20-sided die.
* If you roll 13 or higher, choose a previously destroyed squad figure.
* If you roll 18 or higher, choose a previously destroyed hero figure.
Gain temporary control of the chosen figure and its Army Card, remove all markers from its card, place the figure on any empty space adjacent to this figure and take a turn with the chosen figure and its Army Card.
~

Edit: @TREX the additional skulls are not automatic wounds, they can still be blocked.

Added desired line: "Kratos cannot drop Godly Artifacts during his movement"
Comment: I don't think the line is necessary as long as the power is capped at the amounts of Glyphs it can generate, which this version does - vs old version that only capped how many Kratos could personally carry. Cutting the line will save text squish and card complexity. Having the godly prejudice inflict 1 damage should be deterrent enough for sharing.

Ahead of The Curve
 

Here's my input.

Nemean Cestus should have an "a" before Defense Value and Attack. 3+Special. (See Jorhdawn). As for power level, an auto skull is awfully close to being equivalent to 2 additional dice.

Version 3 of Claws looks fine.

For the Head of Helios how's this?

I'm not quite happy with the wording but it's a good draft to go off of.

~Dysole, updatingly

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

What if for Head: Count defender's blanks as skulls for you...

... Simpler decisions:
Vs Vs Vs Vs vs (F) ... Something else or combinations from several above choices

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Confred , is this more what we are looking for on the Glyph cards?


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psdbnjduqw.jpg

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Exactly what we were looking for. Thanks JC McMinis. If you wanted, you could put a dash in "engagement" to break up the space gap.

Shooting Blanks
 

No Heroscape power makes mention of blanks so as to remain compatible with the first edition dice. C3G crossed that bridge a while back but I don't know if we want to deviate from Scape here. An interesting effect could be this.

As a note, auto skulls are not rolled and so would not be counted here. For Golden Fleece to match Gurei-Oni we'd need "When rolling defense dice"

~Dysole, all for now

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Dysole , do we want Fleece to be usable after seeing what is rolled? The tactical advantage is small enough that I'm fine with sticking to Gurei-Oni's wording

Head: Before attacking, choose 3 spaces in a straight line. All figures on those spaces (and adjacent to those spaces) subtract 1 from their defense rolls this turn.

Overall, the Head is uninteresting to me. It doesn't play a clear role as do the other Glyphs in my mind. The others feel like puzzle pieces.
I kind of like the idea of it:
Permanent: Mental Shield special power
Temporary: Defender rolls no defense this attack
The permanent power lights the way (abstract imagination required) and keeps Kratos on task while the throw away is a finisher.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ok here is the Bow and Boots in what I think are their final form? What do you guys think.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf3dakuqu.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...psijskfhkx.jpg

Hot to the Touch
 

Did we want lava resistant figures to be immune to the bow? As is, they can be attacked by it.

~Dysole, who didn't see any other issues on a quick skim

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Dysole Lava Resistant aren't completely immune, only immune to the additional skulls added to the roll.

As written, is it clear to everybody what the power does? The power has a base Attack of 2 and ramps up against figure without resistance.
If unclear, at the end we may need a line that reads something like: "Figures roll defense dice after all attack dice are rolled."
If clear, no words are necessary and the Glyphs look perfect. A+