Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

My turn? exciting.
My three top picks are
Sterling Archer
Jack Bauer
Dexter Morgan
I've already done Sterling and he's near where I want him.
Jack Bauer I've also worked on before but I could never pin it perfectly, so he's a good choice.
Dexter Morgan I haven't worked on at all, so that would be the purest workshop choice.

I choose Dexter Morgan!
[Now off to work] I'll update later

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Dexter Morgan
Phase 1: Designer Chooses Character
Character's name: Dexter Morgan
Television: Showtime: Dexter
What miniature you will be using: Haven't found one yet: Surgeon with scalpel (blood spatter ok), or Brown haired guy in black/earth-tone body suit that doesn't cover his head and holding a knife/strangling rope/needle
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...9u1da6a16d.jpg
Character Bio: Dexter Morgan is a forensic blood spatter analyst working for the Miami-Metro Police Department and secret serial killer turned anti-hero by his adopted father, who's a policeman that taught him to target only criminals that deserve more than what the law can give them while following the number 1 rule of "Never Get Caught".
Figure Design Direction:
I see two main routes Dexter can go with his design, so allow me to brainstorm if you will:
A big portion of the show is dedicated to Dexter proving himself "normal" to hide his alter ego. Thus his Army Card could primarily take on a scientist role, but when certain conditions are met like being adjacent to only one figure that's also only adjacent to Dexter, he turns serial killer.
In the show, he takes on a detective roll to fully prove those that he kills is worthy of his attention. Perhaps he attacks only Utgar figures and has the power to make figures become Utgar.
! Perhaps he is a flip card where one side he is a Vydar detective and the other side he is a Valkril serial killer -- craziness I know. But that's what brainstorming is for
Dexter attacks alone
Dexter stalks his target
Dexter isolates his target
Dexter typically focuses on only one target at a time, but he probably wouldn't use a 'target marker' mechanic
Dexter utilizes preset 'kill rooms' where he brings his targets
Dexter uses a powerful tranquilizer
Dexter uses a choking wire and a knife, set of knives.
"Code of Harry"
"Just a laminate"
1st route: Secret identity, dual roles, one as detective, other as assassin
2nd route: Serial killer with specific conditions

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

This one should be very cool. :) :popcorn:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Interesting choice Confred. I've only seen the first season of Dexter so I'm no expert, but I'll go ahead and throw out some ideas.

For the General I would actually say Einar. Dexter is by no means a good guy so that rules out Jandar and Ullar. However he does have a code and only kills those who deserve it so I think that eliminates Utgar and Valkrill.

Which leaves Aquilla, Vydar, and Einar. And well Dexter is too reserved for Aquilla, doesn't fit the mercenary theme of Vydar. So that leaves Einar, and not to mention Dexter does have a code of honor, there is a line he won't cross, which fits well with Einar imo.

For a flip card, I'd have to see what the others think, but I'd probably say no. I think a mechanic like that would be a little too far from original scape.

Here are a few ideas of powers
Dexter's Target
At the start of the game choose a Unique Hero an opponent controls to be Dexter's Target. Place the Dexter's Target token on their army card. As long as Dexter's Target token is on an opponent's hero's army card Dexter cannot be targeted by an opponent for an attack or special ability. If Dexter attacks a figure remove the Dexter's Target token from the target hero's army card.

Ambush Killer
If Dexter attacks his target he rolls 3 additional attack dice. Dexter's Target cannot roll defense dice or use any special ability if attacked by Dexter.

Code of Harry
A hero that follows Jandar or Ullar can never be Dexter's Target.

These powers are meant to convey Dexter's appearance as a normal person, and thus is ignored by others. It also focuses on making Dexter an assassin and not a warrior.

For a figure I'd say Peter Parker with a little paint and modding could easily pass as Dexter.
http://940ee6dce6677fa01d25-0f55c912...res/299234.jpg

You could also use the Star Trek figures from the Fast Forces pack. Their outfits are a little closer to Dexter, but they could be a little hard to get a hold of.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

That figure is perfect. I don't know how you did it. I literally spent hours looking.

I mocked up a flip card and I agree, it didn't feel right. It worked, but it didn't feel right. It also felt unnecessary. It was cool having one side be a "good" general and the other side being Valkril.

I do like the idea of at least a power named "CODE OF HARRY". I think he could easily kill Ullar figures, because he's an animal killer.

I like the idea of him being an Utgar assassin

Vydar. I think he is Vydar. I think the Miami-Metro Police are the Einar and he's the outsider that's allied with them. Einar wants an empire, while Vydar just wants it to work. (But I appreciate your thoughts.)

[All I can do for today. Time for work]

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Dexter Morgan
Phase 2: Brainstorming Stage
BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST
If a figure destroys another figure, you may place the destroyed figure on that figure's Army Card. Lawmen and Dexter Morgan roll 1 additional attack die when attacking figures with figures on their Army Cards.
I like the idea of Dexter also being a support unit, specifically for Lawmen or an even more creative way I haven't thought of is a plus.
While this power's idea is in the correct direction and name perhaps spot on, the mechanics may break theme. How? well Jandar Vikings.
* I Do like how this power assists the current second bullet to Code Of Harry with memory mechanics
BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST (v2)
If any figures were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with a Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control, or with Dexter Morgan. For the duration of this turn, if a figure was destroyed last turn, your figures roll 1 additional attack die.
BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST (v2.5)
If any figures were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with a Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control, or with Dexter Morgan. For the duration of this turn, if a figure was destroyed last turn, your figures can't be attacked for leaving an engagement.

CODE OF HARRY
* Dexter Morgan can't attack if he is adjacent to a friendly figure.
* Dexter Morgan can attack only figures that have destroyed other figures this game. If the figure is a squad figure and any member of that squad has destroyed a figure, then Dexter may also choose that figure to attack.
I like the idea of Code Of Harry being a straight up bulleted list. The untranslated to game text code is: Don't get caught, and never kill an innocent - I'm pretty sure Dexter only kills murderers with few exceptions. Dexter investigates each of his targets and sometimes finds them 'not bad enough', leaving them for others to take out
CODE OF HARRY (v2)
* Dexter Morgan can't attack if he is adjacent to more than one figure.
* Dexter Morgan adds 3 to his Attack when attacking Utgar figures.
CODE OF HARRY (v2.5)
* Dexter Morgan can move through all figures.
* Dexter Morgan can add 3 to his Attack when attacking Utgar figures.
* Dexter Morgan can't attack if he is adjacent to more than one figure.
CODE OF HARRY (v2.5.2)
* Dexter Morgan may move through all figures.
* Dexter Morgan may not attack if he is adjacent to more than one figure.
* Dexter Morgan may add 3 to his Attack when attacking Utgar figures.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Fun fluff while waiting for others to put in their ideas: "So this is Valhalla. Ironic that I find myself where am I allowed to kill, encouraged to even, and yet still don't belong. Harry, what should I do? It's all so messy, killing for sport. I like to think what you've taught me still applies, even here."
"Survive; it doesn't matter here I can just drink it off and have a new tomorrow. That's not the point. Don't get caught. Never kill an innocent; though none here are that, there still seems to be factions between them good and evil. I am Death walking, choosing the worst of the worst to remove from this world."

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I don't know anything about the character so it's hard for me to judge what you have so far. For Blood Spatter Analyst, I think it's confusing whose card the figure goes on - the destroyed figure or the one who killed it. I understand you mean the figure that did the destroying, but the wording is ambiguous.

You might try something like: "When a figure destroys another figure, you may place the destroyed figure on the Army Card of the figure that destroyed it."

That said, I see your point about the Vikings. What if the player who controls Finn wants him on a different card? How do you decide which power takes precedence? Roll it off?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The original mechanic is too wonky to be necessary. I think this current version is a smoother, more playable variation.

Phase 3: Draft Stage
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...f_original.jpg
(Please pardon the General's icon)
Character Name: Dexter Morgan
Name of TV Show: Dexter
Genre: Crime Drama
Faction: Valkril

Race: Human
Type: Unique Hero
Class: Serial Killer
Personality: Precise
Size: 5

Life: 4
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 3

BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST
If any figures were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with a Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control, or with Dexter Morgan. For the duration of this turn, if a figure was destroyed last turn, your figures can't be attacked for leaving an engagement.

CODE OF HARRY
* Dexter Morgan can move through all figures.
* Dexter Morgan can add 3 to his Attack when attacking Utgar figures.
* Dexter Morgan can't attack if he is adjacent to more than one figure.

Points: 40
-----
Commentary:
Dexter works for the police force to help solve crimes. Blood Splatter Analyst studies blood wounds to give Lawmen the heads up, or Dexter if he wants to take the law into his own hands. If the figure is destroyed, then the Lawmen have a warrant on their hands, allowing them to avoid interference from opposing line in the form of avoiding leaving engagement attacks and countering Dexter's weakness of Harry's Code not offering full Phantom Walk.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

That's some good color work on that figure Confred.

BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST
If any figures that you control were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with any Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control. If a figure you control was destroyed last turn, then Dexter and all Lawman figures you control will not take leaving engagement attacks this turn.

Just some thoughts.

Also I don't know if Dexter fits in with Valkrill. Yes he has a bloodlust, but his code of honor prevents from killing just anybody, which is more Valkrill's style. Keep in mind he only kills those who "deserve" it. I would say the other killers Dexter deals with would be Valkrill, and while there is temptation to just give in to his dark side, he always resists it.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sorry to but in but I have to agree. I think Einar is perfect for him and add Valkril to Code of Harry.
I like your version of Blood Splatter Analysis. That one is really difficult to translate to Heroscape.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Death Knights are in Valkril and all knights have some code. I like Dexter teaming up with Death. I would argue that the other killers were Utgar. It kind of tickles me thinking of a Valkril hiding away in secret under the noses of police Einar. Evil vs Evil. Beast vs Devil.
And that color scheme!
I would argue that the police are Einar, the other researchers are Vydar, his sister is Jandar, but he distinctly sticks out. Harry would even be Einar probably.

Blood Splatter functional changes I'll have to think on because in a three payer game is like to activate even when it's the other two duking it out, but I understand a four player team game taking advantage if it's your teammate that's the player before you. I tried to add stipulations like if an enemy figure destroys a figure but something happened: I realized I liked the idea of Dexter tampering with the evidence, having warrants written up even when it was perhaps he that did the kill
But I'll think about that change and play testing will also show some wants
I will change "a" to "any" - good catch.
Interesting on the end there. I'll probably stick with "duration" but my shortcut to save words might be inappropriate and I might would need to specify lawmen and Dexter as you out it instead of simply "figures"
And thanks for the compliment. It was my first coloration alteration using paint.net and I too like how it turned out. Thank you again for that figure suggestion. It looks perfect. You should tell me how you found him ;)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I disagree about the Death Knights, they are no longer Knights. Reviewing the D&D Wiki, I found no mention of any Code.

I do like the idea of him working from inside evil to destroy evil.

If he is Valkril, I would still add Valkril to Code of Harry. That is really working from the inside. :)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Still waiting patiently for Ookla and Ariel. Thundarr can't ride without 'em!

If no one wants to tackle them I may give them a go myself.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The real powerhouses are their horses. Thundarr whistles and the three can apparently jump from any height and land on their horses backs. :)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

And then the horses and riders can jump off of huge cliffs and survive!

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

When we designed Thundarr we used a figure who wasn't mounted. I guess for Ookla and Ariel we'll do the same thing. But my turn to design doesn't come around for a while.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I disagree about the Death Knights. Yes they are knights but they are not knights in the traditional sense. They are undead and hate all life. I highly doubt they are following the traditional codes of chivalry.

I just have a hard time seeing Dexter with Valkrill. Dexter's code tells him to never hurt the innocent. Does that sound like something Valkrill would say? I mean if Dexter ever gave in to his darkest urges and just killed everyone then I'd say yeah he's a perfect Valkrill, but the fact that he exercises restraint and actually thinks that what he's doing protects innocent people just doesn't fit well. That being said its your design and I won't dig my heels in. Consider this my last pitch for Einar.

I honestly just thought 'what comic character looks like Dexter? Peter Parker!' And so I googled Peter Parker heroclix and up it came.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Resolution list:
1) Blood Splatter Analysis
2) Faction
3) Code of Harry
4) Is it OK to exclude Dexter Morgan's use of Tranquilizers? I think it is, because it's not his main function. I think if I had to choose a condensed version of Dexter, it would be an Assassin vs a Disabler. You could say that part of the big +3 bonus includes the tranquilizer
5) Is it OK to exclude Dexter Morgan's use of Kill Rooms/Killing Rituals? Every version I thought of seemed wonky and distracting from the current streamlined design. You could say that forcing Dexter to attacked when not adjacent to anything else represents a specially chosen spot.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

OK the Faction/General debate is trending now so I'll first focus on that.
Harry Morgan is Einar. To hide from the world that his son is a monster, he has given his son a Code so that he can be more like Einar. If this were Magic: The Gathering, Dexter would have an off-color mechanic.
Following the code doesn't make you one with the code. While Dexter did follow it very well, lived by it even, it wasn't truly in his heart - an important factor Generals look at when summoning.
Dexter is a monster, perhaps even an evil one - yes evil doers have codes and ethics. Most RL serial killers and you-name-its in prison probably had 'rules' to live by.
There are two "evil monster factions":
Utgar and Valkril
In this land of Valhalla, it's all about Jandar vs Utgar. This is Jandar's realm, Viking Heaven, to fight endless battles and drink endless ale. Utgar's near sole purpose is to provide things for Jandar to slaughter, legit evil things to be worthy of battle. His purpose is to be antagonistic, to be evil
Utgar = Evil evildoer, antagonist
Valkril = Evil bystander, like an evil Aquilla
Dexter is the beast, is death, is Valkril (98% certain)
What he kills are the antagonists of whom he tries to follow the rules to fit in with Einar, to fit in with Jandar, to kill the truly "bad guys".
That's why he bonuses exclusively off them. [Code Of Harry]
In the show he tries to find others like him and even tries to share his code. He's willing to let other evil bystanders live. It's when they're 'bad' or 'wrong', antagonistic, does he make them their target. Obviously we the player know what generals each figure is affiliated with, but in Dexter's world, figures don't know. That's how Dexter can hide with Einar, because he's acting that way and they cannot see his card. That's why he vets his chosen targets, he confirms they are Utgar. If they are just something else, Valkril, he lets them go.

Besides, his color scheme rocks atop a Valkril Army Card and is down right ugly on an Einar card base ;)

Above what I wrote, I did so while thinking about this question, a thinking out loud if you will. My way of sharing to best work as a team. Through it I've found that Dexter Morgan being Valkril and against Utgar while assisting Lawmen(Einar) is critical to his character and this design.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

You've convinced me enough. I can buy Dexter as Valkrill, even if I don't completely agree with it. But I'll hold my tongue :p

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Changes:
BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST
If any figures were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with any Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control, or with Dexter Morgan. If a figure was destroyed last turn, for the duration of this turn, Dexter Morgan and Lawmen figures you control will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
Breakdown of Changes: Commentary:
1) ...with any Lawman hero..: "any" is an official standard for choosing targets. I had incorrectly used "a"
2) If a figure was destroyed last turn,: This was originally in the middle of the sentence; it has been moved to the front to mirror the first part of the power starting with "If".
3) for the duration of this turn,: "this turn" has been replaced with "for the duration of this turn" on all the newest official cards, so for the sake of continuity Dexter Morgan will also use such phrasing.

4) Lawmen figures...: Originally this power enhanced all your figures. If we're going the 'gained access due to enabling search warrant from blood evidence' route, it makes sense for only Lawmen that use warrants to be boosted.
5) figures you control: I originally had all figures receiving the bonus, even enemy figures
6) will not take any leaving engagement attacks: "can't be attacked for leaving an engagement" is not the phrasing official cards use; newest and most official cards use "will not take any leaving engagement attacks"
7) Note: I did not adopt the proposal of limited the wounded and dead to your figures. Dexter studies all blood, even when caused by him and his allies, or by two rivals not concerning his own army. I like the idea of having a figure with Counter Strike in Dexter's army to make wounds and then Dexter Analyze that blood for the boost. I've combed my mindspace for abuse of not limiting the victims to your figures and I couldn't find any. But always counter observations are welcomed.

Updated Image:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...9_original.jpg
Added "value" after "Attack" to be more consistent with official cards like Siege.
Edit: Above in the spoiler there is a version that doesn't use the "for the duration" phrasing that I think I like better; comments from ya'll are welcome.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

For Blood Splatter Analyst you don't need to list Dexter Morgan as figures you can take a turn with instead of Dexter Morgan. It doesn't make sense to say instead of, and then put the original option. It's also not necessary because the rest of Blood Splatter Analyst effects Dexter. I think you can just leave it as Instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with any Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control. and leave it at that.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

By Job, I think you're right!
Updated version:
BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST
If any figures were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with any Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control. If a figure was destroyed last turn, Dexter Morgan and Lawmen figures you control will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Originally the second part was tied to the first and that is why Dexter was included, but it's been tweaked enough that I think you're correct and we can same some wordspace.

Keep up the diligence!

I have some family events coming up and no days off until next week, but I plan to play test soon.

Testing at POINTS 40 - 60

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Unable to run proper play tests, I've been pouring over all figures points 40 to 60 and this Dexter is weaker than most 60s but stronger than most 40s and comparable to many 50s. I think his Points value is 50

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sorry havent commented on this one much been busy...is the last posted cardcurrent version? Also thought he was going to be Vydar?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Updated version displays a more streamlined Blood Splatter Analyst and increases his Points value to 50:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...5_original.jpg

Dexter Morgan is a beast of the death lord Valkril; to fit better in society his adopted father, a lawman of Einar, gave him a Code to live by. Being in the evil faction is what causes the drama in his story and he justifies it by killing the other evil faction, Utgar, while leaving the others like himself alone.

I'm fine for a vote for this one.
:up:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Well done,:popcorn:I've been lurking in your thread enjoying all your work, I love all these figures cards. Dexter is spot on.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I appreciate your kind words. Put a lot of work into this Dexter.

And to all, should his Personality be Precise or Tormented?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Is there synergy either way?
Great design. That looks really fun.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

@Mac - Precise... :rolleyes:


EDIT: HoSS inside joke.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I believe tormented is a better fit, but I really don't have a great sense of the character, not being familiar with the source material.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I would say precise. Dexter has a very strict ritual when it comes to killing and he doesn't like to deviate from it.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The Facebook message boards suggested Disciplined!
:shrug:

To me, the synergy would be with theme, or flavor as a Vorthos may say.
The right Personality value could better ease the hearts and minds for him being in Valkril for example.

Precise: He's methodical and does things in certain ways and he is unsurpassed in his field of work due to his acute attention to detail.
Tormented: He lives a double life with each side conflicting with the other, receiving uncomfortable flashbacks from each in turn.
Disciplined: Like Precise, Dexter sticks to his code and special rules he sets for everything.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I guess it comes down to, do you want him to have synergy with the Sacred Band?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sacred Band are kind of like Lawmen and they are in Einar's faction, the faction I want Dexter to have subtle synergy with.

I'm leaning towards Disciplined
Disciplined: 88%
Precise: 83%
Tormented: 77%

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...6_original.jpg
:up:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Will you be making a Dexter Morgan Card with a TV picture style background on it as well.(Just got done downloading pretty much all you guys card designs to geek out on.)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Probably, mac is our usual card maker, probably real life is getting in the way, as mac has yet to post the card for Jack Sparrow yet. I am sure it will come though.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

mac's been busy as The Art Department for HoSS...pretty much he has saved us, enabling us to release on May 4th. :cheer:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Ahhh good to know. Well l, as always, looking forwars.to what you at HoSS have to offer which means he will be back go us soon

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Did we ever talk about Dexter's class? Serial killer fits the character but I don't know how well it fits as a class in heroscape. He's technically a criminal. Maybe vigilante?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I've been floundering with his Personality. I'm back to thinking it's Precise. He gives into impulse, to which a Disinclined figure wouldn't but a Precise figure might overthink and justify

I could go with Assassin as Class, but really I prefer Serial Killer or Killer.
Definitely not Criminal or Vigilante.
I prefer not Hunter and doubtful to Predator
I'm open for proposals.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

He is in a sense an assassin. It might flow with some of Valkrills others such as C3V's SIIV, assassin is an already known class of heroscape. Serial Killer is exactly what he is though. I would stick with Assassin or Serial Killer. It really depends what your going for. If he were an assassin, would he have any synergy with anyone. Maybe C3G's Kingpin. my 2 cents.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Are you guys excepting new members of your design thread on here, I love this idea and would love to be part of it if you have me. If not, I'll still drool over you guys stuff you create.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

If you want in TREX it is fine with me and I am sure the others would be fine with it as well. We can put you in the rotation. Taeblewalker, I believe, is the one who was keeping track of the rotation.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

+1 here.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Thanks, after all you guys do a vote or something that will be awesome. What you guys are doing in this thread is what it is all about. Having a good time.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think we could always use new members. +1