Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Hmmm... that slipped my mind.
With that in mind, Balantai's suggestion definitely makes the most sense. Are all of the Amberite heroes going to have a regal status?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

It's my understanding that all Amberites are princes and princesses, so, to elaborate that point a bit, my suggestion is to make the bonding work with all Amberite Princes and Princesses to avoid possible future confusion on bonding with figs he should not bond with.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

They are all princes and princesses, and I was going to reflect that like I did with Corwin, but I thought that would make him more of a niche character than what I want him to be. But, that's how we got the elf pod, and they kinda rock.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Then it probably should be worded 'After revealing an Order Marker on this card, but before taking a turn with Corwin, you may first take a turn with any Amberite Prince or any Amberite Princess you control within 5 clear sight spaces of Corwin.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

To make it so he doesn't affect dragons say it can only effect medium/small.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Can we get an updated version, when you have time, Hrockle?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Sure, why not?

I'm still not quite happy with Royalty, but that's up for you guys to decide.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Couldn't this be abused to take a turn with himself?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Fixed. No bonding with himself.
(Having flashbacks of American Pie 2... I glued myself to... myself. hehehehe :twisted:)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

[quote=wulfhunter667;1185385] Unless there are going to be large or huge Amberite Princes and Princesses the "small or medium" designation wouldn't be necessary.

Lookin' good

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

[quote=Lamaclown;1185977] If you make him affect others than just amberites it may be more affective because as of now he is the only amberite.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The problem with that is that, if my understanding is correct, Trump cards can only be used to summon other Amberite and to shift worlds. To keep the figure true to the character, you would have to designate Amberites only.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The Amberites-only mechanic will be a problem for now, but I imagine, Hrockle will want to continue this series with his next character. For now, when Corwin is playtested, we may just have to pick one or two other heroes in the army to temporarily be Amberites to see how well that mechanic works.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think mac is right. The problem it brings up however is how do we cost him accurately without knowing how powerful the other Amberites will be? If they are going to be mainly 80 point figs than Corwins cost can be lower; if they are going to be mainly 150 point type figs, Corwins cost will need to be higher.

We could solve this by going through the playest process twice with Corwin. Once with high point Amberites and once with low cost Amberites. However, I think so far only mac and I have done any playtesting, so going through the process twice for one fig when there are still three other figs that have seen no playtesting at all yet- not real practical.

So, how should we playtest him since his power works with figs that are as of yet non-existent? Do we do 2 separate tests or do we choose a high and low point fig to test him with all in one game (which could lead to inconclusive results)?

Or I could totally be seeing a problem that isn't there... :oops:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think you have a point. I think whoever playtests Corwin will have to proxy a couple other heroes of different values and just make the best assessment they can. Later, when another Amberite figure comes up, we'll have Corwin to test with. If we see a problem then, we can either redesign the new figure or go back for a tweak on Corwin.

As Corwin stands right now, I would peg his points at around 160-180(while fully admitting points are the hardest part for me). He's got good base stats and a situational attack bonus. His field-general abilities without LOS or clear sight requirements - Royalty and Trump Card - are where his main strengths lie. Use Royalty to have another figure strike at an opponent then use Trump Card to pull them out of the engagement. Or Corwin says, "Hey, bring that Treasure Glyph you're carrying over here." I still would have liked to seen a regeneration ability for Corwin, but the trade-off is fair for the battlefield control elements.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

You bring up a good point but in regular scape there are a few combonations like Warden and the Nagrubs. they are from different planets and I believe wardens affect was for the Zettains but it also affects all other guards so I still think it should work for all kinds of figures.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

In the ROTV set, Grimnak gives a bonus to orcs that had not yet existed. The Amberite designation is to keep him from affecting Dragons, which could provide an enormous power boost to him and drive up his point cost. Now, as far as playtesting goes:

My next few creations will vary in point cost, but the best area to go through would be from 80 (ROTV Raelin) and 220 (Tor-Kul-Na). I will also be able to provide a few political subtleties inside the figs (hence the wording of medium and small, Lamaclown. I will help playtest Corwin, but I cannot guarantee a fair test as A)I do not have a large collection of figures to provide squad tests and B) I do not know of any players near me.

mac, I do agree with 180 points.

I'll post an updated card before I go to sleep tonight.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Soloscape, baby. It's a wonderful thing. ;)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Can I see the updated card?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Corwin
Literature: The Amber Chronicles
Vydar

Amberite
Unique Hero
Prince
Tricky
Size: TBD (no current fig representation)

Life: 6
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

ROYALTY
Before taking a turn with Corwin, you may first take a turn with any small or medium Amberite Prince or Amberite Princess you control.

TRUMP CARD 15
After moving, if Corwin is not engaged, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, you may place one Amberite you control adjacent to Corwin. If the Amberite is engaged, they will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

GRAYSWANDIR
When attacking an adjacent figure that has a Tricky, Wild, or Tormented personality, you may roll 2 additional dice.

Points: 180

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

In Royalty, why "small or medium"?

Otherwise, he looks great. He needs a mini, though. We can't get him on a card without a mini pic.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

D'oh, thought I had posted that in one of the posts higher up.

the small and medium was to bring in a little bit of a political counter play inside the game. If I could find proper minis, then a couple of them would be large, to show the general distrust that was shown to Corwin by a couple of the others.

I've been doing minihunting, and unfortunately I'm not having any luck.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

The mini doesn't have to be perfect. Something similar would be fine.

Instead of the "small or medium" limitation on the power. It would probably be easier to have a power on the other cards like:

Distrust
John Doe may not be affected by the Trump Card Special Power.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

You couldn't really do that because all Amberites should have that ability and giving them blanket unaffected would not be thematic.
I have to be honest here, whether or not you fine a large fig or not, for logistics sake, just make the Amberites medium. Just because the books say they are large, doesn't mean you have to follow that line of thought to the letter. Plus, it would solve the lack of figure problem. Just my :2cents:.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Mmkay, knocking out the large and the size requirements. That makes sense to me.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Anything else fellas?

(If my turn happens to come up in the next couple of days since I am next on the list, I will be out of town until Mon and may not have internet access)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Minor language clean-up

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

:thumbsup: Looks good.

Hrockle, have you looked at Mage Knight figures for Corwin? I was window shopping Troll & Toad last knight and saw a few human figures with big swords.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I agree. Looks good. :thumbsup:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

We just need a miniature picture. :thumbsup:

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Food for thought:
Mage Knight figures of swordsmen. I don't know what Corwin would look like, but assuming human-like, here are some Mage Knight figures I found that are in stock at Troll and Toad and are pretty cheap.
Crystal Bladesman Mage Knight Unlimited #021 $0.49
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...man021-MKU.jpg

General Russo Mage Knight Nexus #005 $0.99
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...o005-nexus.jpg

Crystal Bladesman MK Rebellion #020 $0.49
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...-rebellion.jpg

Magestone Lord MK Sinister #034 $0.99
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...-sinsister.jpg

Here's some from WoW. I believe WoW are the proper scale.

Dralor WoW Core set $0.99
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...WoWcoreset.jpg

Graccus WoW Core set #$0.99
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...WoWcoreset.jpg

These are all currently in stock at Troll and Toad. I've put the prices on each - hopefully I didn't mix any up. None of these were over $1.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

That looks pretty good.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

:tumble:
I was able to get back into Troll and Toad and have posted the Corwin possibilities I found. Most are Mage Knight which are very much the same scale as Scape. 2 of them are World of Warcraft minis. I believe are also in scale, but I've not seen any WoW minis. Anyone know for sure?
Hrockle, are any of these on the right track?

There were several other sword-wielding figs, but I purposely did not select any that were more than $1 or were not in stock.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Just got home, and wow, mac, those are great. the closest, in my opinion, are the Crystal Bladesman MK Unlimited #021 and Crystal Bladesman MK Rebellion #020. They would only need a minor paint job, and possibly some detail work. However, those are definitely on the right track. I think figures with chain mail are the way to go, as Corwin is to have a sort of slippery, general feel. I'll take another look as soon as I get settled.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Are we ready for a vote on Corwin?

BTW - finally able to start the Dr. Who playtests. The Doctor vs. Heroes tests are posted in the playtesting thread.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think we're safe to move on.

Lamaclown,

Please post your choice.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Woo hoo!

Drawing inspiration from one of my favorite customs creators- Atmospro- and his Dark Carnival series of figs, and wanting something with outside the box game mechanics possibilities, I have decided on Samuel Sullivan of Sullivan Brothers Carnival from Heroes. So...

Name: Samuel Sullivan
Genre: Television Heroes
Figure: For now The Question from the Arkham Series of Heroclix
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...heQuestion.jpg
Info on Character: Samuel Sullivan

Direction: I see three main components I would like to see portrayed.
1) Samuel was a master at manipulating people.
2) The more "specials" (mutants) that were around him the more powerful he became.
3) He had the ability of terrakinesis- the power to move earth. I am really looking forward to seeing what interesting mechanics we can come up with for this ability.

Have at it everybody :)

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Tough, because as cool as his power could be, it seems that he would have a glass jaw against against all attacks. Hard to justify a Defense higher than 1 and probably not big on life points either.

I'd probably give him a Special Power at range (5?) that does dice of damage dependent on number of 'heroes' within 5 hexes with special powers. Cap @ 6 ATT?

I'm not all that familiar with the range of his abilities since I tuned out on that show when he showed up, so I'll probably sit out the rest of the discussion.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Interesting choice, LC.

Terrakinesis - I'd love to somehow create a power that would let you move or remove terrain pieces, but I think it would be way too powerful within the game mechanics. Here's a thought, Mika Connour can place shadow tiles. What if Sullivan had sinkhole tiles? Choose a figure within X spaces and roll a d20. On Y or above place a sinkhole tile beneath the chosen figure. Non-flying figures must roll for major falling damage. Figures moving off sinkhole spaces must count that movement as 3 spaces.

"Specials" boost - this would seem to depend on how you define "specials". If you are planning to create more Heroes characters, then it could be their species (ala Amberites with Corwin). Short of that, it could be other unique heroes you control or select one or two heroes you control for Samuel to bond with. For each "special" within X spaces, Samuel rolls 1 additional attack and defense die and adds Y to his 20-sided die rolls.

Manipulation - sounds like a d20 "take a turn with" power - a one shot deal each time the power is used, not permanent like Mind Shackle.

I agree with Delph that his base stats should be low.

Edit: Another idea for Terrakinesis could be based on Fire Line. All figures occupying X number of spaces in a straight line from Sullivan are affected. It would be like he's opening a rift in the ground or a shockwave similar to Machinekng's suggestion.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think you guys are on the right track with low base stats.

I am bursting with ideas but I will wait until we get some more brainstorming going before posting mine. I really like the thoughts so far.

I will say that I want Samuel to work with existing HS figs and not just heroes from Heroes. ;)

Looking forward to more input on this!

EDIT: I also wanted to encourage others involved with this project to read an article in HS Codex 6. The article is called Measuring and Importing Power. It is about importing already existing characters into HS. It is a good read for just such a project as this.

EDIT: OK, not much input so I guess i will post my thoughts...

I think a combination of mac's "fireline" version and machinekng's first version for Terrakinesis sounds good.
My initial thought, inspired by this custom by Grungebob...
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgaller...enadilcopy.jpg
...was to have single spaced rock outcroppings to be placed and moved by Terrakinesis. As mac said, however, it would be a balancing act with game mechanics. Here is how I went throught the thought process for it...

Terrakinesis Special Ability
Instead of moving or attacking with Samuel you may choose an opponent's figure with X spaces of Samuel. Roll the d20. If you roll X or higher you may place a single space rock outcropping on the space the figure occupied. Move the chosen figure as many spaces as it was from Samuel. For every three spaces moved the figure receives one wound. Add 1 to the range of Terrakinesis and 1 to the result of the d20 roll for every unique hero you control adjacent to Samuel.

I also thought of just simply copying the Tree bonding and storm of thorns abilities since they were very thematic for Samuel (using rock of course)

For manipulation I thought first of Red Skull's very simple Master Manipulator ability- instead of taking a turn with Samuel you could take a turn with any unique hero you control within clear sight of Samuel. This would give him a very reliable and very useful ability worth drafting his glass jaw for.

His boost ability would of course come into play when using whatever terrakinesis ability is decided upon.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Finally, a figure I have ideas on.


Samuel Sullivan
Utgar

Human
Unique Hero
?
?

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 1
Defense 3

Manipulator
After taking a turn with Samuel Sullivan, you may select one unique hero within five clear sight spaces of Samuel Sullivan and roll the 20-sided dice.
If you roll a 17 or higher, you may immediatley take a turn with that hero.

Terrakinesis Special Attack
Range 5 Attack 1+Special
For every friendly unique hero you control within five clear sight spaces of Samuel Sullivan, you may roll one additional attack dice for Terrakinesis Special Attack up to a maxium of 6 attack dice. If you inflict a wound with Terrakinesis Special Attack, you may immediatley move the targteted figure 2 spaces.

-This version of Terrakinesis would represent Samuel sending a shockwave throught the ground.

Another Version:

Terrakinesis
Instead of attacking with Samuel Sullivan, you may select one figure within five clear sight spaces of Samuel Sullivan and roll the 20-sided die.
-If you roll a 1-13, nothing happens
-If you roll a 14-16, inflict one wound on the selected figure and move it up to one space
-If you roll a 17-19, inflict two wounds on the selected figure and move it up to 3 spaces
-If you roll a 20, inflict four wounds on the selected figure and move it up to 5 spaces.
For every unique hero within five spaces of Samuel Sullivan, you may add one to the result of the 20-sided die roll for Terrakinesis for a maximum of +5.

roling a twenty would be an automatic Q10 kill.

I believe Samuel would be best rolled as a ranged hero killer, who works well with other heroes.

EDIT: I like Lamaclown's Master Manipulator Idea. Also drawing inspiration from Red Skull, maybe he could use the power to either take a turn with a hero, or move Y heroes X spaces.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Just wanted to draw attention to the edit in my post. I posted some of my brainstorming ideas.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I think Terrakinesis should either be dropped, or turned into a special attack.

Keeping it thematic is the key here, and if we can't move a bit of terrain around, then what's the point in having the ability that seems we can? If it's a special attack, than at least we can have it double on certain tiles, like rock.

If we drop Terrakinesis though, we'll need to make his other abilities stronger, or else he's useless and won't be drafted. It seems that he needs to be one of the ultimate strategy unit, or a hidden threat, like Dund. He can be the rock against a contrasting unit's hard place.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Terrakinesis special attack range 5 attack 3+

If Samuel Sullivan is on a rock space or adjacent to at least 1 outcropping OR
the target is on rock or adjacent to an outcropping add 2 to Terrakinesis special attack.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Okay Lamaclown. Let's see that first draft when you have a moment.

*I didn't add anything to the conversation because I stopped watching Heroes early in Season 3 and never got to know this character. I really like the idea of manipulating sink holes and outcroppings, though.

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

OK, here is what I have.
I presented two versions of each ability just because I couldn't decide...

Samuel Sullivan
HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
LEADER
EGOMANIAC
(I am open to suggestionss. This describes him but if their is an official personality that would work I would rather go with that)
VYDAR
(I went back and forth between Vydar and Utgar. I decided on Vydar since the others of the carnival aren't all that evil and I felt they all needed to be under the same general.)

LIFE 5
MOVE 5
RANGE 1
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 3

MASTER MANIPULATOR
Instead of taking a turn with Samuel Sullivan you may take a turn with any unique hero you control within sight of Samuel.

OR

MANIPULATION
Instead of taking a turn with Samuel Sullivan you may either take a turn with any unique hero you control within sight of Samuel or move any 1 figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Samuel up to 3 spaces. A figure moved with manipulation cannot be moved onto a lava space.

AND

TERRAKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3 or special. Attack 2 or special.
Choose an opponent’s figure within range of Samuel Sullivan. Place 1 single space rock outcropping on any empty space adjacent to the chosen figure. All figures adjacent to the rock outcropping are affected by Terrakinesis. After attack dice have been rolled and wound markers have been placed on affected figure’s cards, move each figure for as many spaces as wounds it received. Add 1 to the range and 1 die to the attack roll for Terrakinesis for each unique hero you control that is adjacent to Samuel to a maximum of 5 range and 4 attack dice for Terrakinesis. Rock outcroppings cannot be placed within 3 spaces of the castle door.

OR

TERRAKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 2 or special.
Choose 4 spaces in a straight line from Samuel Sullivan. All figures on those spaces who are in line of sight are affected by Terrakinesis Special Attack. Place a brown Sinkhole Tile under the base of each affected figure. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Affected figures roll defense dice separately. If a figure is not destroyed it must roll for falling damage. If a figure moves on or over a Sinkhole Tile, it must count the tile as 3 spaces for movement purposes. Add 1 to the range of and 1 die to the attack roll of Terrakinesis Special Attack for each unique hero you control adjacent to Samuel for a maximum of 7 range and 4 attack dice.


What are everyone's thoughts on abilities and points?

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

Personality - Egomaniacal or Ruthless
I agree with you on Vydar
I still think the Defense should be lower, say 2.

I prefer MASTER MANIPULATOR over MANIPULATION

I actually don't care for either Terrakinesis power as is.
I could see the second one as a one-shot power and add an additional Terrakinesis Ranged attack 5, attack variable by # of Unique Heroes within 5 hexes. I'd change "Sinkhole" nomenclature to "Chasm" or "Rift."

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 

I like either ability, but I think the base should be 1 attack die. The wiki said he was pretty much powerless unless near another Hero