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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

mac122 August 26th, 2010 11:45 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667 (Post 1186610)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dfonse (Post 1186557)
If you make him affect others than just amberites it may be more affective because as of now he is the only amberite.

The problem with that is that, if my understanding is correct, Trump cards can only be used to summon other Amberite and to shift worlds. To keep the figure true to the character, you would have to designate Amberites only.

The Amberites-only mechanic will be a problem for now, but I imagine, Hrockle will want to continue this series with his next character. For now, when Corwin is playtested, we may just have to pick one or two other heroes in the army to temporarily be Amberites to see how well that mechanic works.

Lamaclown August 26th, 2010 01:03 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1186619)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667 (Post 1186610)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dfonse (Post 1186557)
If you make him affect others than just amberites it may be more affective because as of now he is the only amberite.

The problem with that is that, if my understanding is correct, Trump cards can only be used to summon other Amberite and to shift worlds. To keep the figure true to the character, you would have to designate Amberites only.

The Amberites-only mechanic will be a problem for now, but I imagine, Hrockle will want to continue this series with his next character. For now, when Corwin is playtested, we may just have to pick one or two other heroes in the army to temporarily be Amberites to see how well that mechanic works.

I think mac is right. The problem it brings up however is how do we cost him accurately without knowing how powerful the other Amberites will be? If they are going to be mainly 80 point figs than Corwins cost can be lower; if they are going to be mainly 150 point type figs, Corwins cost will need to be higher.

We could solve this by going through the playest process twice with Corwin. Once with high point Amberites and once with low cost Amberites. However, I think so far only mac and I have done any playtesting, so going through the process twice for one fig when there are still three other figs that have seen no playtesting at all yet- not real practical.

So, how should we playtest him since his power works with figs that are as of yet non-existent? Do we do 2 separate tests or do we choose a high and low point fig to test him with all in one game (which could lead to inconclusive results)?

Or I could totally be seeing a problem that isn't there... :oops:

mac122 August 26th, 2010 02:17 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1186669)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1186619)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667 (Post 1186610)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dfonse (Post 1186557)
If you make him affect others than just amberites it may be more affective because as of now he is the only amberite.

The problem with that is that, if my understanding is correct, Trump cards can only be used to summon other Amberite and to shift worlds. To keep the figure true to the character, you would have to designate Amberites only.

The Amberites-only mechanic will be a problem for now, but I imagine, Hrockle will want to continue this series with his next character. For now, when Corwin is playtested, we may just have to pick one or two other heroes in the army to temporarily be Amberites to see how well that mechanic works.

I think mac is right. The problem it brings up however is how do we cost him accurately without knowing how powerful the other Amberites will be? If they are going to be mainly 80 point figs than Corwins cost can be lower; if they are going to be mainly 150 point type figs, Corwins cost will need to be higher.

We could solve this by going through the playest process twice with Corwin. Once with high point Amberites and once with low cost Amberites. However, I think so far only mac and I have done any playtesting, so going through the process twice for one fig when there are still three other figs that have seen no playtesting at all yet- not real practical.

So, how should we playtest him since his power works with figs that are as of yet non-existent? Do we do 2 separate tests or do we choose a high and low point fig to test him with all in one game (which could lead to inconclusive results)?

Or I could totally be seeing a problem that isn't there... :oops:

I think you have a point. I think whoever playtests Corwin will have to proxy a couple other heroes of different values and just make the best assessment they can. Later, when another Amberite figure comes up, we'll have Corwin to test with. If we see a problem then, we can either redesign the new figure or go back for a tweak on Corwin.

As Corwin stands right now, I would peg his points at around 160-180(while fully admitting points are the hardest part for me). He's got good base stats and a situational attack bonus. His field-general abilities without LOS or clear sight requirements - Royalty and Trump Card - are where his main strengths lie. Use Royalty to have another figure strike at an opponent then use Trump Card to pull them out of the engagement. Or Corwin says, "Hey, bring that Treasure Glyph you're carrying over here." I still would have liked to seen a regeneration ability for Corwin, but the trade-off is fair for the battlefield control elements.

dfonse August 28th, 2010 12:29 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667 (Post 1186610)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dfonse (Post 1186557)
If you make him affect others than just amberites it may be more affective because as of now he is the only amberite.

The problem with that is that, if my understanding is correct, Trump cards can only be used to summon other Amberite and to shift worlds. To keep the figure true to the character, you would have to designate Amberites only.

You bring up a good point but in regular scape there are a few combonations like Warden and the Nagrubs. they are from different planets and I believe wardens affect was for the Zettains but it also affects all other guards so I still think it should work for all kinds of figures.

Hrockle August 29th, 2010 03:42 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dfonse (Post 1188742)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667 (Post 1186610)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dfonse (Post 1186557)
If you make him affect others than just amberites it may be more affective because as of now he is the only amberite.

The problem with that is that, if my understanding is correct, Trump cards can only be used to summon other Amberite and to shift worlds. To keep the figure true to the character, you would have to designate Amberites only.

You bring up a good point but in regular scape there are a few combonations like Warden and the Nagrubs. they are from different planets and I believe wardens affect was for the Zettains but it also affects all other guards so I still think it should work for all kinds of figures.

In the ROTV set, Grimnak gives a bonus to orcs that had not yet existed. The Amberite designation is to keep him from affecting Dragons, which could provide an enormous power boost to him and drive up his point cost. Now, as far as playtesting goes:

My next few creations will vary in point cost, but the best area to go through would be from 80 (ROTV Raelin) and 220 (Tor-Kul-Na). I will also be able to provide a few political subtleties inside the figs (hence the wording of medium and small, Lamaclown. I will help playtest Corwin, but I cannot guarantee a fair test as A)I do not have a large collection of figures to provide squad tests and B) I do not know of any players near me.

mac, I do agree with 180 points.

I'll post an updated card before I go to sleep tonight.

wulfhunter667 August 29th, 2010 04:37 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrockle (Post 1189868)
A)I do not have a large collection of figures to provide squad tests and B) I do not know of any players near me.

Soloscape, baby. It's a wonderful thing. ;)

Balantai August 31st, 2010 04:32 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrockle (Post 1189868)
I'll post an updated card before I go to sleep tonight.

Can I see the updated card?

Hrockle August 31st, 2010 05:23 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Corwin
Literature: The Amber Chronicles
Vydar

Amberite
Unique Hero
Prince
Tricky
Size: TBD (no current fig representation)

Life: 6
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 4

ROYALTY
Before taking a turn with Corwin, you may first take a turn with any small or medium Amberite Prince or Amberite Princess you control.

TRUMP CARD 15
After moving, if Corwin is not engaged, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, you may place one Amberite you control adjacent to Corwin. If the Amberite is engaged, they will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

GRAYSWANDIR
When attacking an adjacent figure that has a Tricky, Wild, or Tormented personality, you may roll 2 additional dice.

Points: 180

Balantai August 31st, 2010 05:36 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
In Royalty, why "small or medium"?

Otherwise, he looks great. He needs a mini, though. We can't get him on a card without a mini pic.

Hrockle August 31st, 2010 05:39 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
D'oh, thought I had posted that in one of the posts higher up.

the small and medium was to bring in a little bit of a political counter play inside the game. If I could find proper minis, then a couple of them would be large, to show the general distrust that was shown to Corwin by a couple of the others.

I've been doing minihunting, and unfortunately I'm not having any luck.

Balantai August 31st, 2010 06:06 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
The mini doesn't have to be perfect. Something similar would be fine.

Instead of the "small or medium" limitation on the power. It would probably be easier to have a power on the other cards like:

Distrust
John Doe may not be affected by the Trump Card Special Power.

wulfhunter667 August 31st, 2010 08:11 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1192106)
The mini doesn't have to be perfect. Something similar would be fine.

Instead of the "small or medium" limitation on the power. It would probably be easier to have a power on the other cards like:

Distrust
John Doe may not be affected by the Trump Card Special Power.

You couldn't really do that because all Amberites should have that ability and giving them blanket unaffected would not be thematic.
I have to be honest here, whether or not you fine a large fig or not, for logistics sake, just make the Amberites medium. Just because the books say they are large, doesn't mean you have to follow that line of thought to the letter. Plus, it would solve the lack of figure problem. Just my :2cents:.


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