Heroscapers - The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules

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The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules

The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules

C3G SUPER SECRET EXCLUSIVE 72
START YOUR ENGINES!

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PDF

This set of rules is necessary to fully enjoy C3G Destructible Objects. It is designed to enhance your superhero battles by allowing figures to ride designated Vehicle Destructible Objects around the battlefield, and allow you to draft them alongside your favorite heroes!

_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-

_________________________________________________________________
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Previous Vehicle Rules and their development
Playtest Reports (Previous Version):
Sports Car (Initial): Ronin
Public Test 1: IAmBatman
Public Test 2: LordVenoc
Public Test 3: MrNobody
Playtest Reports (Updated Version) (Sports Car at 4 Life, 3 Defense, 100 points):
Initial: (Tornado)
Public Test 1: (IAmBatman)
Public Test 2: (Arch-vile)
Rulebook layout by japes, remade by tcglkn for the update

Rules Updates:
2 April 2021 - Total overhaul to encompass all DO rules.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT RULES

Spoiler Alert!

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Original OP:

Spoiler Alert!

----------------------

Good thought!

The Book of Vehicle Optional Rules

Current Version Being Tested

Spoiler Alert!

Changes proposed for the Destructible Objects – Vehicles rules/Rules proposed for Enclosed Structures:

(Changes in bold)

Changes to Vehicle Destructible Objects Rules:

Page 2:

Quote:

These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas: •Drafting Vehicles

• Entering Vehicles

• Occupying Vehicles

•Partial and Full Cover

• Moving Vehicles

• Exiting Vehicles

• Destroying Vehicles

Quote:

EXAMPLE 1: Vehicle Card Like the Official Destructible Objects cards, the Vehicle Destructible Objects cards that are affected by this rule set have a similar appearance but with a few inclusions.

Uniqueness: Whether a Vehicle is Unique or Common.

Occupancy: The number value indicates the number of figures that can occupy the Vehicle.

Size/Height: The Size and Height indicate the Vehicle’s actual size and height as per the standard Heroscape game mechanics, but also by their inclusion symbolize that this Destructible Object is compatible with the throwing rules from the C3G Destructible Objects rule set.

Partial Cover/Full Cover: This indicates whether a Vehicle offers Partial Cover or Full Cover for occupying figures.

Move: Because these Destructible Objects are Vehicles, a Move value is included to allow their movement across the battlefield as described in the standard Heroscape rules.

Quote:

ENTERING VEHICLES

A figure may enter a Vehicle by ending its movement on a space adjacent to the Vehicle if it meets the following criteria:

• Your figure’s size must be smaller than that of the Vehicle. Refer to Example 1 to identify the Vehicle’s size on its Army Card. NOTE - The size of a figure is located on the left hand side of its Army Card next to its height. The different sizes are ordered from smallest to largest as follows: Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, and Huge.

• The current occupancy of the Vehicle must be less than the Occupancy number of the Vehicle. The occupancy designation on a Vehicle Army Card shows the number of figures that may occupy a Vehicle. A figure can only enter a Vehicle if that Vehicle has fewer figures on its Army Card than its Occupancy number (example: If a car has an Occupancy number of 2, but only has 1 figure placed on its Army Card, a 2nd figure can enter that car).

• There are enough empty spaces to legally place that figure in the Vehicle.

• Some Vehicles may have specific entrances/exits marked on the figure itself. In this case the Vehicle can only be entered or exited from empty spaces within one space in the direction that the entrance/exit is directly facing.

Figures entering Vehicles do not receive any passing swipes from enemy figures occupying that Vehicle. Once a figure Enters a Vehicle, it should be placed on any empty space or spaces on that Vehicle’s Army Card.

DRAFTING VEHICLES

Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs) act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Uncommon VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).
Like Army Cards, VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and are considered in that player's Army. However, a VDO is not considered under a player's control unless that player has one or more figures occupying that VDO (see more below).

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OCCUPYING VEHICLES

Figures occupying a Vehicle are still considered on the battlefield, controlled by the Player whose Army they are in, occupying the same space or spaces as that Vehicle for the purpose of counting spaces for range and power selection, but are not affected by any special terrain rules for that space.

Figures inside a Vehicle that is Large or smaller are considered adjacent to each other and the Vehicle itself, but are never considered adjacent to or engaged with figures outside of the Vehicle.

If enemy figures occupy the same Large or smaller Vehicle, they are considered engaged.

Any time a Player could move a figure that is occupying a Large or smaller Vehicle one space or more, they may choose to move that figure to any other empty space inside that Vehicle. Since all spaces inside a Vehicle of this size are considered to be within one space of each other, figures moved this way will not take leaving engagement attacks.

Each Vehicle has a designated space for the Driver. If a figure you control is the only figure occupying a Vehicle or if a figure you control is occupying the designated Driver space in a Vehicle, you now control that Vehicle.

A figure occupying a Vehicle may still have Order Markers placed and revealed on its Army Card. However, Order Markers cannot be placed on the Vehicle’s Army Card.

PARTIAL COVER AND FULL COVER

As denoted in the left box of each Vehicle, Vehicles can be Partial Cover or Full Cover.

Figures occupying Vehicles with Full Cover are never in clear sight of figures outside of that Vehicle and never have clear sight on figures outside of that Vehicle.

Vehicles with Partial Cover do allow for clear sight between figures occupying that Vehicle and figures on the outside. Partial Cover Vehicles are those with windows or other openings that allow for clear sight. These clear sight openings will be marked on Army Cards by the green target points on the Vehicle’s Hit Zone. Clear sight can only be traced through these target points.

When a figure occupying a Partial Cover Vehicle targets a figure outside of that Vehicle, they should use the target point for that Vehicle to trace line of sight and range. When a figure outside of a Partial Cover Vehicle targets a figure occupying that Vehicle, they should use the target points for that Vehicle as the hit zone for any occupying figure.

Unless a special power indicates otherwise, a figure can only target one figure occupying a Vehicle at a time. If, however, a special power targets or chooses a space and the space the Vehicle occupies is chosen, the Vehicle and all figures occupying the Vehicle are affected.¬

MOVING VEHICLES

In addition to the Size, Life, and Defense values contained on destructible object cards, Vehicles have a Movement value.

Instead of moving normally with an Army Card you control, if one of the figures from that card occupies the Driver space for a Vehicle, you may move that Vehicle. You may only move each Vehicle this way once during each player turn.

When moving the Vehicle, follow standard movement rules, with one exception: Vehicles and occupying figures do not make or receive leaving engagement attacks against figures outside of the Vehicle.

If a Vehicle would be moved, any figures occupying it stay in that Vehicle and are moved with it. If any of the occupants cannot be moved for any reason, that Vehicle cannot be moved.

EXITING VEHICLES

After moving a Vehicle you control, you may place a figure you control from the Vehicle’s Army Card on an empty space adjacent to the Vehicle. You may exit with any or all of your figures on the same turn. If that figure was engaged with any other figures occupying the Vehicle prior to moving, it will take any leaving engagement attacks. The figure that moved the Vehicle may now complete its turn. Remember, the figure that moved the Vehicle did so at the expense of its normal movement.

If you wish to have one of your figures exit a Vehicle you do not control, you may have that figure Exit instead of moving normally on its turn. If that figure does not have the Super Strength special power, before exiting with that figure, roll one unblockable attack die against it. When your figure exits a Vehicle, place that figure on any empty space adjacent to the Vehicle.

DESTROYING VEHICLES

If a Vehicle receives enough wounds to be destroyed, each figure on top of the Vehicle or occupying the Vehicle immediately receives X Wounds where X = any excess wounds the Vehicle received beyond what was needed to destroy it. After removing the destroyed Vehicle from the battlefield, players may, in initiative order, place all of their figures that remain on top of the Vehicle on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed Vehicle. Figures moved when the structure is destroyed never take any leaving engagement attacks but will receive any falling damage that may apply.

Then players may, in initiative order, place each remaining figure they control that was occupying the Vehicle on a space or spaces previously occupied by the destroyed Vehicle. If a figure that was occupying a destroyed structure cannot be placed on a legal space or spaces, that figure is immediately destroyed.

Past Version

Spoiler Alert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1441873)

Your figure's size must be smaller than that of the vehicle. Refer to Example 1 to identify the vehicle's size on its Army Card. NOTE - The size of a figure is located on the left hand side of its Army Card next to its height. The different sizes are ordered from smallest to largest as follows: Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, and Huge.
The current occupancy of the vehicle must be less than the occupancy number of the vehicle. The occupancy designation on a vehicle Army Card shows the number of figures that may occupy a vehicle. A figure can only enter a vehicle if that vehicle has fewer figures on its Army Card than its occupancy number (example: If a car has an occupancy number of 2, but only has 1 figure placed on its Army Card, a 2nd figure can enter that car).
There are no figures controlled by other players occupying the vehicle currently. Refer to Occupying Vehicles for further details.

Quote:

If a figure of the correct size ends its movement adjacent to a vehicle that has not reached its occupancy number, the figure can enter that vehicle.

When a figure enters a vehicle, normal leaving engagement rules apply. Place that figure on that vehicle's Army Card. The figure that entered the vehicle is now occupying that vehicle.

OCCUPYING VEHICLES
Figures occupying a vehicle are not on the battlefield.
A figure occupying a vehicle may still have Order Markers placed and revealed on its Army Card.
If one or more of your figures occupies a vehicle, you now control that vehicle. However, Order Markers cannot be placed on the vehicle's Army Card.
If a vehicle is ever suddenly occupied by figures of different players (e.g.: one of your figures is Mind Controlled by another player), the vehicle is destroyed (see: Destroying Vehicles).

MOVING VEHICLES
In addition to the Size, Life, and Defense values contained on destructible object cards, vehicles have a Movement value.
After revealing an Order Marker on one of your Army Cards, before taking a turn with a figure you control occupying a vehicle, you may move that vehicle. You may only move a vehicle once for each Order Marker you reveal.
When moving the vehicle, follow standard movement rules, with one exception: vehicles do not make or receive leaving engagement attacks.

EXITING VEHICLES
After moving a vehicle you control, you may place a figure from the vehicle's Army Card on an empty space and adjacent to the vehicle. You may exit with any or all of your figures on the same turn. Figures cannot move during a turn in which they exit a vehicle.

DESTROYING VEHICLES
If a vehicle receives enough damage to be destroyed, after removing it from the battlefield, place all figures that occupied the destroyed vehicle on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed vehicle. Roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure that previously occupied the destroyed vehicle receives one wound. If a figure that was occupying a destroyed vehicle cannot be placed on a legal space or spaces, that figure is immediately destroyed.

Spoiler Alert!

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Honestly, I don't think we'll have to add much in the way of rules. Check this FAQ question from the OP of the Rules thread:

Q: The Vehicle Rules state that figures that occupy vehicles are no longer on the battlefield. Does that mean that the last figure in an Army can't use vehicles? After all, a player loses if he doesn't have any figures remaining on the battlefield.
A: Under Occupying Vehicles section, the rules state that "you now control that vehicle". This is VERY important to remember as you play the game with special powers that reference opponent's figures (DOs are treated as figures in C3G) and also designing powers. This section also answers your question, because even though your last figure got into a car, the car is now your DO/figure. So the game is not over.

Not a huge change between being in your army once occupied and starting in your army. It's just the whole enemy occupation thing that could get messy.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Running questions as I read over the rulebook:

1. Leftbox: In current VDO cards we only have occupancy and size/height in the leftbox. If we make them draftable do we go full, typical leftbox including species, personality, etc.? And if so, where do we put the occupancy?

2. Stats: VDOs have Life, Move, and Defense values right now. If they become draftable, do we give them Attack and Range values? Or only ones that have actual weapons? Or do we just do those things as special attacks.

3. If a VDO is draftable, OMs can be placed and removed on them, right? Which means a VDO is now taking a turn. What does a VDO do on its turn? Can it move? Can it attack? Can it only do these things if occupied?

4. Entering the vehicle. Current VDO rules don't let you enter a vehicle with one or more figures controlled by another Player occupying that vehicle. Basically once that vehicle is occupied, it's under the control of the occupant. Would we continue with that and make it really easy, potentially, to lose control of a VDO you drafted, or would a VDO have to be mind controlled, etc., and actually change hands before a different player could occupy it?

I have some thoughts on all of these but want to hear from others first (spoiler: I favor as little change as possible, which means a bit of risk to drafting these, but I'm OK with that).

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

I don't think making them draftable means we need to give them attack numbers or let you put OMs on them or anything - Spells don't work that way, for instance.

My personal preference would be that drafting a VDO meant you got to place it in your SZ at the start of the game and from that point, it behaved as normal for a VDO that started on the battlefield.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Perfect. :up: You didn't fall for my trap. I agree completely. At most I'd argue that once your placed the VDO in your start zone, its card became a temporary part of that start zone and you could place other figures there as part of the initial placement (up to its occupancy of course).

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

So for 1-3 keep things just the same. For 4, keep them the same because it's really not that big of a deal. You're only opening yourself up to occupancy switches (especially if we go with my start zone idea) if you choose to exit the vehicle. Otherwise only mind control and vehicle destruction can get that figure out of the vehicle.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

I think draftable VDOs will need two additions to their cards:

1. Point value
2. An indication of uniqueness. A VDO should be "common" or "unique" to indicate how many of that exact model you can draft in one Army. Maybe this isn't necessary, but a distinction between a standard Squad Car and the Batmobile seems reasonable to me here.

As for writing up the rules, I'd crib as much as possible and relevant from the nicely written drafting section of the Spell rules, copied here for workshopping (shout out: Yodaking):

Spoiler Alert!

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

If you are going to go down this route I could see a Tank or something similar one day getting created where it featured mounted weapons the operator could use instead of their normal attack. I actually found a 3-D printer file for a Cobra Fang and printed it out. I figured I would make it a draftable card with pilot already included, but you could also just make it without a pilot and then Baroness or someone would jump in and fly it around until shot down.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

That's definitely something that needs to happen and could be spelled out in a special attack on that VDO's card, IMO.

The other thing we may need to tackle that's going to be a lot lot harder is greater than 2 hex figure/vehicle movement.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207207)

Spoiler Alert!

Good point! I think we'll definitely want a Common/Uniqueness distinction.

Letting people start off in vehicles might be okay, but it might make them a little too efficient as figure-deployers? That's a factor that would impact their cost, at least.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Taking a shot at some rules text:

Draftable Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs), unlike normal VDOs, act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. Draftable VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different Draftable VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Common VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique Draftable VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like normal VDOs and other Army Cards, Draftable VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and, unlike normal VDOs, are considered in that Player's Army. However, just like a normal VDO, a Draftable VDO is not considered under a Player's control unless that Player has one or more figures occupying that Draftable VDO (see Vehicle Destructible Object rules).

A Draftable VDO follows all other VDO rules.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2207218)

Letting people start off in vehicles might be okay, but it might make them a little too efficient as figure-deployers? That's a factor that would impact their cost, at least.

Sure, but other than being figure deployers, most of them won't have a terrible amount of use. I guess they might be protection for Order Marker hubs that don't require clear sight.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

The start in it power could be unit-specific, I guess. Makes the rules cleaner to put together without it anyhow. My only concern is the other player having start zone rushers on a small map and taking over your vehicle before you can get in it, but I guess if the map is too small vehicles are a waste anyway.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207215)

Mole Machine sidesteps that issue by pseudo-teleporting. If the Batmobile takes up more than a couple spaces, then yeah, we may need to work something out. Might be a good thing to do anyway, like we were talking about in the Bucket List thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207235)

Yeah, I think it would be easier to start the rules without that, and most units don't need it. We can save that for where it's most thematically needed.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Cool. Hopefully the draft I put up for the rules text will move us close to the finish line on the rules part of this. Once we wrap that, it's just a matter of creating a draftable VDO to test them with.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207220)

Does it make sense to have draftable and undraftable VDOs, or should we just make them all draftable?

Retesting and costing the Sports Car and Mole Machine (probably as a Common and a Unique, respectively) would give us a useful test bed for the new rules, and help us figure out how much Vehicles are worth, so I like the idea of making those draftable.

Do we think we'd ever need to design an undraftable one again in the future? They don't seem to have been very attractive to design previously.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

That's a solid point and not having to apply the "draftable" adjective before every other instance of VDO would clean up the rules text. :-)

At that point we'd be looking at a revision of the VDO rules instead of a new set of rules. Do @japes or @A3n still have access to a file they can edit for that?

Also, that's basically a reevaluation at that point (well, one for the rules and one for each vehicle) so it'd be something that would require a whole Hero vote, I'd think.

But, yeah, I'd be in favor. If we're going to make a draftable Batmobile, Mole Man should be able to draft his Mole Machine with him.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207294)

Yeah, we'll need a formal vote at some point, but I don't think anyone's ever weighed in against the idea when it's brought up.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Sure, it'd just be good to know we're all buttoned up so we can move forward in confidence. :-) Especially if we're all in agreement to revisit all VDOs as something draftable rather than just adding draftable VDOs to the overall VDO mix.

(I'm on board with you fully, though, for clarity :up: ).

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Okay, so here's a spin at the rule additions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1441873)

Legacy Text:

C3G VEHICLE RULES

DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS - VEHICLES
Destructible objects are an official inclusion in the game, as seen with the Fortress Door and the Destructible Wall. C3G rules for destructible objects were established in the C3G Destructible Objects Rules. Vehicles are a type of destructible object that follow all of the rules of other destructible objects, but include a few specific to vehicles.

These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas:

- Drafting Vehicles
- Entering Vehicles
- Occupying Vehicles
- Moving Vehicles
- Exiting Vehicles
- Destroying Vehicles

EXAMPLE 1: VEHICLE CARD
(Sample Card here)
A vehicle has three four designations in the left box of its Army Card: uniqueness, size, height, and occupancy. The size and height designations (such as Medium 5) are the same as those found on other figures' Army Cards.

DRAFTING VEHICLES
Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs) act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Uncommon VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like Army Cards, VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and are considered in that player's Army. However, a VDO is not considered under a player's control unless that player has one or more figures occupying that VDO (see more below).

(rest of vehicle rules as normal)

EDIT: Addendum for squad movement rules (pending official wording): moving a vehicle replaces the entire movement phase of a squad card, not the movement phase for the swuad figure or figures occupying that vehicle.

I branded them as Unique/Uncommon instead of Unique/Common, because the Sports Car has 4 Life, and I'm not sure we'll ever see a ton of 1-Life vehicles.

So what else are we gonna need to clarify here? I kinda want to have the new rules prototyped before calling for a vote.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

This is sounding pretty good. It's not difficult to add a uniqueness to our existing vehicles. Everything else is fairly straightforward.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

That looks solid. Good call on uncommons, though we'll have to be really careful to check for power stacking on them.

I think there may be a sentence in the current rules that says something about your not being able to draft VDOs or them not being in your Army (one or the other). We'll have to find that and make sure to edit it out if we make this change.

So far we just have the Mole Machine (unique) and Sports Car (uncommon) so we should be able to get both types figured out as part of this process, but not have too much we need to reevaluate.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

So what do we need to do to get this to a votable place?

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207536)

So what do we need to do to get this to a votable place?

I'll double check the rules (or someone else can do it) to make sure there's nothing else obvious that needs to change. Then come up with some initial cost guesses for the Sports Car and the Mole Machine, and call a vote to start testing the new rules.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Looking good. Have to keep an eye on Selene and her DO power.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

For the Sports Car, I'd start the projection around 100 points (based on a stats comparison in the index. Closest I could find is Ragdoll, who also has 4 Life and 6 defense, has a move of 6 compared to the Car's 8, and has only a range 1 attack 3, which compares to Hit and Run).

Ragdoll doesn't fly or have super strength either. Contortionist only has a bit extra utility beyond just not taking leaving engagement attacks (which the car does naturally). Clingy ties down shooters, but the Car protects riders. The car has the slight downside of being easy to take over if you exit it, but also has suped up Carry, basically. So I'd say 90-100 would be a good starting point for that.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

The Mole Machine compares really similarly, except with much better movement (since it's basically a place anywhere power) and better defense (8 compared to 6).

Best comparison I could get is Jay Garrick Flash, with his 10 move and Super Speed, Range 1, Attack 4, and 7 Defense. I'd say it's pretty close (Flash's aura is better, the Mole Machine's movement utility and defense are better). I'd say start with 200 (slightly under Flash's 220) and go from there.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

I'd err on the lower side for VDO costs, since they can't take turns by themselves, similar to Green Constructs.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2207622)

Looking good. Have to keep an eye on Selene and her DO power.

Any thoughts on how the Lawmaster might play in these rules?

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Still planning on making them Uncommon Heroes.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado (Post 2208413)

Still planning on making them Uncommon Heroes.

Are they basically A.I.?

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Yeah, remember when you said KITT would be the only Unique Hero vehicle and I said Lawmaster?

One Lawmaster even went rogue and started dispensing justice on its own.
https://i0.wp.com/www.starkafterdark...ster668739.jpg

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2207406)

Okay, so here's a spin at the rule additions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1441873)

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207626)

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207627)

@dok @Dysole @weebaer @Soundwarp SG-1

Do those sound like reasonable cost guesses for what we're trying to do here? Any concerns? Big rules gaps we need to close?

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

What about giving them a class which would also be a quick reference to occupancy? i.e. Compact - 2 people; Sedan - 4 people; SUV - 6 people; Truck - 2 people plus item or items; Public - up to 20 people (thinking bus or train here, possibly passenger jet, if ever needed.) These are just my initial thoughts.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

I would rather not have the class written on the card and just keep Occupancy there.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Yeah, keep these as DOs, just ones you can start with.

Honestly, I'm wondering if we should make draftable DOs their own category/rule, one that includes both regular and VDOs... but not all of them. I can theoretically see the point in a draftable static DO (shield generator to start with - not necessarily that, but there are possibilities), and that way we could do those as well if we wanted to but have no actual requirement to make any given DO or VDO draftable... so, if we wanted to make a non-draftable VDO, we could, or a draftable DO, we could. Just a more flexible, useful system.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

I'm with you, L_O, but that's a big project. Let's start with VDOs and see where it leads.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Yeah, I'd like to end up there eventually. Starting with Vehicles as a test case, though!

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2208616)

I'm with you, L_O, but that's a big project. Let's start with VDOs and see where it leads.

It's not, actually. I'm just talking about putting the rule in place, not making any present DOs draftable (in fact there aren't any static ones right now I'd want to be draftable). It's just the introduction of a set of 'drafting DO rules' that mean that any DO with a points cost, Vehicle or otherwise, can be drafted and placed in your start-zone, and if it doesn't, it can't (even if it's a VDO, so it gives us room for non-draftable VDOs if we wanted to make any). We'd only have to start with the two existing VDOs since they're the only existing DOs we'd want draftable, and it would mean that any future DOs we make, vehicle or not, could be made draftable or not as we see fit. It's literally no more work initially, it just gives us more room to manoeuver, on both sides.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Vehicles come with some additional challenges, so I'd like to make sure we work those out. Once we have the mechanics for Vehicles finalized, though, we could definitely write it up in the rules as a general draftable DOs rule and then have the Vehicle Rules just clarify the extra stuff relevant to Vehicles.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2208624)

That's basically what I was suggesting. :)

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2208497)

@dok @Dysole @weebaer @Soundwarp SG-1

Do those sound like reasonable cost guesses for what we're trying to do here? Any concerns? Big rules gaps we need to close?

Sorry I'm late replying here.

Anyway, I only barely understand the VDO rules (never looked at them before now, I couldn't be less interested in the whole thing personally), but I think the core rules here are sound. My issue is really more with how all the vehicles are going to have a variation of Carry and an auto-wound power, as those are two of the very best things a card can have. I don't think the Mole Machine is going to come in at 200 for example, it is more useful than that.

Personally, I'd shoot for these being... not overcosted but like on the high side of what feels right... anyway. Like they should be available to those that want to use them, but they shouldn't be so good that they're something people feel obligated to draft to get the best army they can. C3G already does a lot of complicated stuff just within the basic game, requiring people to learn VDO rules or spell rules or whatever just to be able to run a half decent army is something I'm very wary of as it feels like a great way to kill off any newcomers' interest in the game. Not saying we're at that point now, just that it is something to be mindful of.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

They are considered optional, like Knockback, so any tournament could just say they're not allowed.

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 (Post 2208860)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2208497)

@dok @Dysole @weebaer @Soundwarp SG-1

Do those sound like reasonable cost guesses for what we're trying to do here? Any concerns? Big rules gaps we need to close?

Yeah, definitely agree with that philosophy. A generic Sports Car or whatever especially doesn't need to be some kind of juiced competitive beast.