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-   -   The Book of Solomon Kane (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=49718)

Flame Gryphon December 30th, 2013 07:12 PM

The Book of Solomon Kane
 
The Book of Solomon Kane

C3G DARK HORSE WAVE 24
THEY CAME FROM BEYOND!


http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...Kane_comic.jpg
Comic PDF

http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...nKane_mini.jpg
Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a repainted Confrontation figure from the Griffins set. It is available in the Demon Hunters Unit Box (6 figures).
The name of the figure is Demon Hunter.

_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - Famous for his quest to rid the world of evil in all its forms, Solomon Kane vanquishes evil not only to protect the world but atone for his past misdeeds. He is often depicted as a stern pale man in his forties. Being an Elizabethan puritan he looks upon all magic as being of devious origin and a phenomenon he has to fight by all means. This fight also allows him to quench his inner rage and unleash his berzerker like temper onto beings he shall feel no regrets for exterminating. (ComicVine)
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • Q: Exactly how does Master Swordplay work with multiple adjacent opponent figures that are at standing on varying levels of height in relation to Solomon Kane?
  • A: The first attack "locks in" a number of attack dice to roll, and every subsequent attack after that is based on the initial roll. Lets do an example: If Solomon Kane (with 3 Attack) had height advantage on the first target, he would be able to use Master Swordplay for a maximum of 4 attacks (using 4,3,2,1 dice), regardless of who he attacked after the first attack. This is assuming that he rolled at least 1 skull on each previous attack.
_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:Outgoing Synergy:
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities:
  • N/A
Benefits:Weaknesses:
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Flame Gryphon December 30th, 2013 07:12 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
NAME = SOLOMON KANE


SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = VINDICATOR
PERSONALITY = FANATICAL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 160


RIGHTEOUS RETRIBUTION
Start the game with 1 black Retribution Marker on this card. If a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane receives one or more wounds from an opponent's attack, you may place your Retribution Marker on the attacking figure's card. Before Solomon Kane attacks a figure with your Retribution Marker on its card, you may return the marker to this card and add 2 to Solomon Kane's Attack number for the remainder of the turn. If a figure with your Retribution Marker on its card is destroyed, place the marker back on this card.

MASTER SWORDPLAY
If Solomon Kane attacks an adjacent figure with his normal attack and at least one skull is rolled, he may attack an adjacent figure again. He may continue attacking adjacent figures, rolling 1 fewer attack die for each subsequent attack, until you fail to roll a skull. Before any of these attacks, if you reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card, you may add one automatic skull to that attack.

KEEP THE FAITH
Any time an opponent would take temporary or permanent control of Solomon Kane, you may instead remove one unrevealed Order Marker from this card.

johnny139 December 30th, 2013 07:20 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Naturally the power order should change ("Start of Game" power first, then Swordplay, then Faith).

I'd prefer 5/4 for Move/Defense, but if we only want to drop one I'd rather move Move down to 5 and keep Defense as-is.

Re-reading it seems sort of odd to me that he's a "Fanatical Wanderer" with the power "Relentless Avenger" which uses "Retribution Markers." I think moving things around a bit there to make it more aesthetically consistent would help some.

Flame Gryphon December 30th, 2013 07:23 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
If anything I'd prefer to move down Defense and keep Move as it is. :lol: I'm not too strongly attached to either one, but I feel Move is slightly more thematic for him.

I can change the markers back to being Vengeance markers, which might help a bit. From there, I'm not really sure what to say. :shrug: Maybe change his personality to Relentless? Although then Relentless Wanderer sounds a little odd.

johnny139 December 30th, 2013 07:26 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Maybe change the name to "Unrelenting Avenger?" It's just that "Relentless" has such personality connotation in HeroScape.

Vengeance Markers would be preferable for me too I think.

Karat December 30th, 2013 07:31 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I'm wondering if his class shouldn't be Vindicator.

Flame Gryphon December 30th, 2013 07:33 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Not sure on that part. I was kind of trying to bring some of those connotations in. :shrug: This is a guy who will track someone down across several continents and oceans to get retribution for a crime committed over a year ago. That feels less "unrelenting" and more "relentless", imo. Especially since we're trying to bring across a trance-like berserk rage...

I'll make the change to Vengeance markers when the grace period is up.


Vindicator would work. I originally had three possibilities with Vindicator, Wanderer, and Avenger, so I'm fine with any of those. :up:

SirGalahad December 30th, 2013 07:40 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Need to specify that the markers are going on the opponent's cards.

4 might be a bit many--four auto-skulls plus his attack dice, which can be boosted by a number of friendly figures=yikes.

Yes, I know he'd have to stay alive long enough to get all four, but that's what Beat Cops are for. ;)

Flame Gryphon December 30th, 2013 07:51 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Yeah, that could be a problem... :? Maybe change it so there are more markers, but there's a cap on how many auto-skulls can be added using it? So if, for example, there's a figure that manages to get all four on his card, that just means Kane gets two turns where he gets a single attack with 2 auto-skulls? It could help balance it a bit... :shrug:

Karat December 30th, 2013 08:45 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
You could just limit it to where a figure can't have more than 2 Vengeance Markers on their card.

quozl December 30th, 2013 08:53 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Yep, like this (also added in "your" in case there is more than 1 Solomon Kane on the battlefield):

RELENTLESS AVENGER
Start the game with 4 black Retribution Markers on this card. Whenever a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane without your retribution marker on its card receives wounds from an opponent's figure's attack, you may place one of your Retribution Markers on that figure's card. When Solomon Kane attacks an opponent's figure, you may add 1 automatic skull for each of your Retribution Markers on that figure's card. If you do so, remove all your Retribution Markers on that figure's card from the game.

Karat December 30th, 2013 09:01 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 1898475)
Yep, like this (also added in "your" in case there is more than 1 Solomon Kane on the battlefield):

RELENTLESS AVENGER
Start the game with 4 black Retribution Markers on this card. Whenever a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane without your retribution marker on its card receives wounds from an opponent's figure's attack, you may place one of your Retribution Markers on that figure's card. When Solomon Kane attacks an opponent's figure, you may add 1 automatic skull for each of your Retribution Markers on that figure's card. If you do so, remove all your Retribution Markers on that figure's card from the game.

The wording here has you placing the markers on your figure's card. Something I just noticed happened in the original version too. I believe the original intention was for them to be placed on your opponent's figure's card. How about?

RELENTLESS AVENGER
Start the game with 4 black Retribution Markers on this card. Whenever a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane receives one or more wounds from an opponent's figure's attack, you may place 1 Retribution Marker on thate attacking figure's card. When Solomon Kane attacks an opponent's figure, you may add 1 automatic skull for each black Retribution Marker on that figure's card. If you do so, remove all black Retribution Markers on that figure's card from the game. A figure may never have more than 2 Retribution Markers on its card.

quozl December 30th, 2013 09:08 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Looks good except it needs "your" to differentiate your markers from another player's Solomon Kane's markers.

Karat December 30th, 2013 09:14 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Good catch. Fixed.

RELENTLESS AVENGER
Start the game with 4 black Retribution Markers. Whenever a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane receives one or more wounds from an opponent's figure's attack, you may place 1 of your Retribution Marker on the attacking figure's card. When Solomon Kane attacks an opponent's figure, you may add 1 automatic skull for each of your black Retribution Marker on that figure's card. If you do so, remove all of your black Retribution Markers on that figure's card from the game. A figure may never have more than 2 Retribution Markers on its card.

Zettian Juggernaut December 30th, 2013 09:45 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Things look good.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karat (Post 1898492)
Good catch. Fixed.

RELENTLESS AVENGER
Start the game with 4 black Retribution Markers on this card. Whenever a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane receives one or more wounds from an opponent's figure's attack, you may place 1 of your Retribution Marker on the attacking figure's card. When Solomon Kane attacks an opponent's figure, you may add 1 automatic skull for each of your black Retribution Marker on that figure's card. If you do so, remove all of your black Retribution Markers on that figure's card from the game. A figure may never have more than 2 Retribution Markers on its card.

Though I think "on this card" should be on there.

Karat December 30th, 2013 09:54 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I don't think it really matters, but if you add that you have to add the line "...other than Solomon Kane.." to that last line.

quozl December 30th, 2013 09:56 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I'd much rather limit the retribution markers to 1 per card instead of 2.

TrollBrute December 30th, 2013 10:05 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 1898513)
I'd much rather limit the retribution markers to 1 per card instead of 2.

Agreed. It just feels more thematically and mechanically cleaner.

I'm also with johnny on preferring 5 Move/4 Defense.

A3n December 30th, 2013 10:08 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I got nothing more that hasn't been said so far. Don't know the character well enough otherwise.

Viegon December 30th, 2013 10:11 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 1898442)
Re-reading it seems sort of odd to me that he's a "Fanatical Wanderer" with the power "Relentless Avenger" which uses "Retribution Markers." I think moving things around a bit there to make it more aesthetically consistent would help some.

What about keeping the "Retribution Markers" and calling the power "Righteous Retribution" or something like that?

Quote:

RELENTLESS AVENGER
Start the game with 4 black Retribution Markers. Whenever a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane receives one or more wounds from an opponent's figure's attack, you may place 1 of your Retribution Marker on the attacking figure's card. When Solomon Kane attacks an opponent's figure, you may add 1 automatic skull for each of your black Retribution Marker on that figure's card. If you do so, remove all of your black Retribution Markers on that figure's card from the game. A figure may never have more than 2 Retribution Markers on its card.
Is there a particular reason why the markers are removed from the game? It seems to oddly limit his uses throughout a game and adds more wording. And thematically, why would his vengeance be so limited? Personally, I think the power would be most thematic if done something like this:

Quote:

RIGHTEOUS RETRIBUTION
Start the game with 2 black Retribution Markers on this card. If a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane is attacked by an opponent's figure and receives one or more wounds, you may place 1 Retribution Marker from this card unto the attacking figure's card. When attacking with Solomon Kane, you may remove all of your Retribution Markers from the defending figure's card and place them back on this card. Add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled for each Retribution Marker removed for that attack.
Just my :2cents:.

quozl December 30th, 2013 10:19 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I think it'd even be more thematic if he only had 1 marker and reused it so he focuses on avenging one figure at a time.

Viegon December 30th, 2013 10:40 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 1898537)
I think it'd even be more thematic if he only had 1 marker and reused it so he focuses on avenging one figure at a time.

Oh, yeah, I like that more (nicely thematic and cleans up the wording).

Flame Gryphon December 30th, 2013 10:45 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
  1. Firstly, you'll need to paint pretty much all the clothes black. The harness, hat, and the various pouches along with it. His undershirt should be white, however.
  2. The various buttons were painted a dull silver, and the buckles a dull bronze.
  3. You can sandpaper the belt down if you want, but regardless paint it a nice green-blue color to represent his gypsy sash.
These are really all you need to get a pretty great Solomon Kane mini! If you want to add all the little touches I added... ;)
  1. Paint the hilt on the sword the same dull bronze, and the blade a little lighter silver then you used for the buttons.
  2. I darkened the pistol, changing it from silver and light wood to more of a bronze and dark wood.
  3. Although it can't be seen on the card, he has a few accessories on the back of his belt. Paint the trap a dull silver. For the bible, I painted the pages in, then painted the cross on the cover gold.
  4. You can also do what I tried to do and paint the face to have a little more life in it, as well as to actually have eyes. It's not needed, but if you do, I suggest going slow and using small amounts of paint and going back for more. I used a peach color, then put a light red wash over it before dotting in the eyes in black.


Spoiler Alert!

johnny139 December 30th, 2013 11:36 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
It currently does work on squads, I believe - doesn't specify type of unit.

I don't mind a the multiples, and probably prefer it, but I agree that having one marker he just reuses is definitely a lot cleaner.

Karat December 30th, 2013 11:54 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Agreed. One marker and works on Squads and heroes. which it does currently, and I like the name Righteous Retribution more than Relentless Avenger.

Zettian Juggernaut December 31st, 2013 09:40 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I like one marker, it's just more clean.

Hellfire December 31st, 2013 09:57 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Yeah, I like one marker for game play's sake and allowing the marker to be placed on squads so that he can hunt down groups of characters and still maintain some theme for the character.

Viegon December 31st, 2013 12:47 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I just had another idea: what if Relentless Avenger/Righteous Retribution boosted his attack number by 1 or 2 for that turn instead of an auto-skull? That power and Swordplay don't play together that much right now (an auto-skull doesn't count as a skull rolled, so it can't trigger another attack), and it seems to me an attack boost would be more thematic. You described him as going into a vengeful rage, so wouldn't it be more thematic if he just kept slicing away at his enemy with more attack? It seems to me the auto-skull for one attack comes off as more precise then rage-like. Something like:

Quote:

RIGHTEOUS RETRIBUTION
Start the game with 1 black Retribution Marker on this card. If a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane is attacked by an opponent's figure and receives one or more wounds, you may place your Retribution Marker on the attacking figure's card. Before attacking with Solomon Kane, you may remove your Retribution Marker from the defending figure's card and place it back on this card to add 2 to Solomon Kane's attack number for the remainder of the turn.

quozl December 31st, 2013 12:55 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I do like that better, V. Slight change though:

Quote:

RIGHTEOUS RETRIBUTION
Start the game with 1 black Retribution Marker on this card. If a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane is attacked by an opponent's figure and receives one or more wounds, you may place your Retribution Marker on the attacking figure's card. Before attacking a figure with your Retribution Marker on its card with Solomon Kane, you may remove your Retribution Marker from the defending figure's card and place it back on this card to add 2 to Solomon Kane's attack number for the remainder of the turn.

IAmBatman December 31st, 2013 01:21 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Put me down in favor of 5 Move, either way for the Defense, and Wanderer or Vindicator (prefer Wanderer if we have RELENTLESS AVENGER or UNRELENTING AVENGER for the power name. Prefer Vindicator otherwise).

For the previous version of the Retribution/Avenger power, you could have just had him cap at one auto skull regardless of how many markers he placed (which could have been done in quite a bit less text). This new direction works as well, though.

Flame Gryphon January 3rd, 2014 02:33 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
SP updated with 5 Defense, 5 Move, correct ordering of powers, and newest version of Righteous Retribution. :up:

Any comments before I send this out to ERB and start the initial? :)

johnny139 January 3rd, 2014 03:23 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Looks good to me! :up:

Hellfire January 3rd, 2014 08:09 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 1899792)
Looks good to me! :up:

:up:

IAmBatman January 3rd, 2014 09:13 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
:up:

Karat January 3rd, 2014 05:17 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I still like Vindicator better, but that's a minor thing.

On a side note, I watched a movie entitled Solomon Kane last night and really enjoyed it. Not sure how accurate it is, as I don't know the character, but it really got me hyped for him to get through the design process.

Flame Gryphon January 4th, 2014 12:16 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karat (Post 1899970)
I still like Vindicator better, but that's a minor thing.

On a side note, I watched a movie entitled Solomon Kane last night and really enjoyed it. Not sure how accurate it is, as I don't know the character, but it really got me hyped for him to get through the design process.

Oops, thought I updated that. :oops: Class changed to Vindicator, and thanks for the catch! :)

EDIT: I've heard the movie is pretty good, but I haven't watched it myself. :shrug: May have to load that up sometime this week to get fully in the mood. :)

Karat January 4th, 2014 12:25 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame Gryphon (Post 1900140)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karat (Post 1899970)
I still like Vindicator better, but that's a minor thing.

On a side note, I watched a movie entitled Solomon Kane last night and really enjoyed it. Not sure how accurate it is, as I don't know the character, but it really got me hyped for him to get through the design process.

Oops, thought I updated that. :oops: Class changed to Vindicator, and thanks for the catch! :)

EDIT: I've heard the movie is pretty good, but I haven't watched it myself. :shrug: May have to load that up sometime this week to get fully in the mood. :)

Cool. Glad it got caught then :up:

I watched it on Netflix.

Flame Gryphon January 4th, 2014 02:09 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I'll definitely have to look it up on there.

SP sent out to ERB. :up:

Flame Gryphon January 5th, 2014 12:29 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
We have two responses! I think we're about ready for an initial here. I was thinking 180-230 for rough range, but I'm pretty bad at costing, so... :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dok
No real concerns, although obviously the stacking of Righteous Retribution and Swordplay could get pretty powerful. Especially in an Enchantress build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlhsl
Solomon Kane

Was he born on a Monday? :razz:

Righteous Retribution
Nice attack bonus. They say revenge is a dish best served cold, but I actually think ice cream is a dish best served cold.

Swordplay
Vetted! It also pairs well with the Retribution bonus.

Keep the Faith
Nice counter ability. “Get out of my head!”

Final Thoughts
Really cool design with the Retribution.


johnny139 January 5th, 2014 12:30 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Enchantress is definitely one to watch out for - be sure to get a test in with her!

Flame Gryphon January 5th, 2014 12:34 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 1900485)
Enchantress is definitely one to watch out for - be sure to get a test in with her!

Yep! Her and Cap, for sure. :)

Karat January 5th, 2014 06:03 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Yeah, put him into an Avenger's Build with Cap, Helmut, and Wasp II, or Ms. Marvel for the activations. With Helmut you reveal your 1 on Cap and your X on Helmut and take the turn with whoever you want and they're being boosted by Cap turn 1.

Oh and I think 190 is a good place to start him.

Zettian Juggernaut January 5th, 2014 11:21 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Looks good, though I not sure 190 points is the best to start him at, 'cause if compare Kane to Swordsman (who is 160) you get:
Stats: Swordsman has 2 more attack for 4 less range.
Left Box: the same besides Swordsman has Fighter Synergy.
Powers: Both have Swordplay, but Swordsman has SA with range and Counter Strike.
So I would say more like 150-160 points actually.

IAmBatman January 5th, 2014 05:49 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Yeah, 150 sounds like a good starting place. Heavy hitters can really help establish that, though. :-)

Karat January 10th, 2014 09:14 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Where are we at here?

Flame Gryphon January 10th, 2014 09:21 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
I am currently working on the Initial Playtest.

Karat January 10th, 2014 10:08 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Cool. Can't wait to see the public response to him. I'm pretty excited about this one personally.

Viegon January 11th, 2014 11:05 AM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Design Phase
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karat (Post 1902579)
Cool. Can't wait to see the public response to him. I'm pretty excited about this one personally.

:word:


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