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-   -   The Book of Solomon Kane (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=49718)

IAmBatman February 22nd, 2014 09:06 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
Two decent wins, but both probably as much about how awesome Enchantress is as Solomon Kane's power level.

Flame Gryphon February 23rd, 2014 08:14 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
Next test is in, from Heroscaper Guy. Strange armies and results, with not a lot of information. :| So far though, nothing is making me think that 165 is too low/high.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy
I rather liked Solomon. Certainly got around his average in points. He was certainly interesting.

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Solomon Kane

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass
_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Pass
- What should be the unit's point value? Hard to tell, around the point value of half of Sinestro's battery markers. Not as easy to figure out Lanterns points in terms of batteries and health.
- Give a brief overview. Hulk smashed, then died to Sinestro. Solomon tried to wound him and helped remove the second and third markers (one was in death, but still.) Superman rushed at Sinestro and destroyed him.
Map: Alkali Lake
Units: Solomon, Hulk (C3G), Superman vs. 3x Sinestro Corps Soldier, Arkillo, Sinestro
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Pass
- What should be the unit's point value? 184 points
- Give a brief overview. Lex kills Non, Ursa is killed by Solomon. Solomon and Lex are killed by Zod. Zod is wounded by Panther, before he kills him.
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Solomon, Orange Lantern (Lex),3x Orange Construct (Stolen Identity), Black Panther vs. Non, Ursa, Zod
Spoiler Alert!



Flame Gryphon March 5th, 2014 04:43 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
Next test in from Tornado!

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (Solomon Kane)

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
?Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
?Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
?Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
?Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
?Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
?Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
?Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
?Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
?Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
?Pass
_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 150?.
- Give a brief overview. Solomon Kane fights the good fight but comes up short.
Map: Fulcrum.
Units: Solomon Kane, Tigra, Huntress, Radioactive Man
vs. Swordsman, Azrael, Black Widow, Purple Man{665 each}.

Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 150?.
- Give a brief overview. Solomon Kane fights well again but Yellowjacket lays waste.
Map: Fulcrum.
Units: Solomon Kane, Manchester Black, Raven, Elektra, Shocker & Firefly vs. Yellowjacket(190), Black Canary, Kirigi, Firestar & Kryptonian Infitrators(x2){995 each}.
Spoiler Alert!



Solomon Kane is a fun design. I really like the combination of Righteous Retribution and Master Swordplay, perfect. I am not as keen on Keep the Faith. Though it fits the theme it is one of those powers that will almost never get used but is a nice defense vs. Mind Control. I would have like to have seen a power against the supernatural but all in all a fine design. I am not sure he is worth 165 but I think he plays right, the way he is. Well done.



Flame Gryphon March 7th, 2014 03:38 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
My thoughts: We could easily add something to Righteous Retribution that allows him to add 1 attack die or something similar when he attacks figures with Magical Defense or Undead figures and then keep his points as-is at 165. I'd probably run a test or two with him with the changes, then we'd move on from there either way.

His prowess against the supernatural is thematic, and helps with his insane feats against the more supernatural creatures. Plus it would be a nice thematic touch that wouldn't make him overly powerful against most figures, and a force to be reckoned with by those it does affect.

What do you all think?

Viegon March 7th, 2014 05:11 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
Being able to boost his own attack up to 6 seems a little high, if we were to go this direction I think I'd prefer to see something along the lines of a defense subtract against undead, demons, and Magical Defense.

Flame Gryphon March 7th, 2014 05:15 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Viegon (Post 1918390)
Being able to boost his own attack up to 6 seems a little high, if we were to go this direction I think I'd prefer to see something along the lines of a defense subtract against undead, demons, and Magical Defense.

True enough. :up: I'd be fine with that.

IAmBatman March 7th, 2014 11:05 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
Could you write up what you have envisioned and post it here? I haven't been following this one as closely as I'd like to (something's gotta give) so I want to make sure I understand the proposed direction and reason for it. :-)

Flame Gryphon March 14th, 2014 12:40 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
Sure. In fact, let's make it a poll. :)

A. Go with what's in the SP, with a point cost of 150-160.



B. Go with what's in the SP, with the following change to Righteous Retribution:
Quote:

RIGHTEOUS RETRIBUTION
Start the game with 1 black Retribution Marker on this card. If a friendly figure within clear sight of Solomon Kane receives one or more wounds from an opponent's attack, you may place your Retribution Marker on the attacking figure's card. Before Solomon Kane attacks a figure with your Retribution Marker on its card, you may return the marker to this card and add 2 to Solomon Kane's Attack number for the remainder of the turn. If a figure with your Retribution Marker on its card is destroyed, place the marker back on this card. Undead figures and figures with Magical Defense roll 1 less defense die against Solomon Kane's normal attack.
I could go either way. I like how the addition makes him more viable against the type of enemies he fought often, but I worry about making the card too complicated. If I had to choose I'd probably go B.

As far as the reason for it, it's thematic and it makes him slightly more viable without breaking the card, imo. I wouldn't be heartbroken if we don't go for it, I feel it's themey enough without it. Tornado did mention the design felt odd without it, and I consider him to be a pretty great playtester/designer such that I'm more than willing to consider his opinion. At the very least, it would be good to discuss it so when it's eventually released there are reasons why we decided not to go with it. ;)

johnny139 March 14th, 2014 02:04 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
I'd rather go with A and just drop his price. The power is already pretty complex and wordy, I don't like mixing attack bonuses and defense detriments, and the last bit feels out of place.

I wouldn't mind spinning it off into a fourth power, but that seems like the sort of thing others would be opposed to.

Karat March 14th, 2014 02:43 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
B if Demons are included and made into another power like johnny suggested.

Flame Gryphon March 14th, 2014 03:55 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
We could replace Keep the Faith with a power like that. :shrug: Either would be thematic, it just depends on which we want to go with.

Demons could be added. :up:

IAmBatman March 14th, 2014 05:42 PM

Re: The Book of Solomon Kane - Public Playtesting
 
A He's looking good at 150 as is, right?


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