Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Yeah. It's definitely tough considering Ash doesn't play well in any group, let alone a Vahalla army. Yet, when all's said and done, he's a good guy.
Any other comments before we move on to the next figure? |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Okay...a day has passed.
If Mac's still interested, it's his turn to choose. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Okay, let's move on to Wulfhunter. If you're still interested in the project, please make your selection, Wulf.
EDIT: Mac has just resurfaced. Let's allow him to make his pick first since he's up in the rotation. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Thanks, Balantai.
Indiana Jones http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/a...iana_Jones.jpg Movies: Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom, Last Crusade... For the mini, James Murphy makes an excellent proxy. The hat, coat, and whip are all very Indy-like, though the gun is too big. I'm sure most, if not all, of you are familiar with Dr. Jones: adventurer, archeologist, Nazi-fighter. Indiana Jones Wikipedia article. I think Indy should be a relatively strong fighter with possibly a ranged normal attack representing his pistol and a special attack/ability for his whip. He should have either a toughness to prevent damage or a healing power representing his ability to absorb a lot of abuse and keep going. A d20 boost when rolling for traps seems appropriate, as well. A creative way to represent his fear of snakes would be fun as well, if it doesn't take too much space on the card. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Indiana Jones
Jandar Human Unique Hero Adventurer ???(Tricky, Valiant) Medium ? Life 5 Move 5 Range 6 Attack 3 Defense 5 Whip Swing 3 Instead of a normal move, Indiana Jones may use his Whip Swing. Whip Swing has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Indiana Jones's Whip Swing, ignore elevations. Indiana may swing over water without stopping, figures without becoming engaged, and swing over obstacles such as ruins. Indiana Jones may move or down more than 10(?) levels in a single Whip Swing. If Indiana Jones is engaged when he starts to Whip Swing, he does not take leaving engagement attacks. Whip Snap 9 Before moving an after attacking, Indiana Jones may target a single figure within 2 clear sight spaces. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 9 or higher, the targeted figure may roll a maxium of one defense against Indiana Jones's normal attack this turn. Treasure Hunter When you roll the 20-sided die for a Treasure Glyph trap with Indiana Jones, you may add 4 to your die roll. or... Treasure Hunter When Indiana Jones rolls defense dice against a trap, he may add (2/3)? to his defense. Why Does It Always Have To Be Snakes? Indiana Jones rolls three less defense dice against Vipers. Comments: @killercactus: I agree with your changes to why does it have to be snakes. However, if you're going to remove a power, I would remove treasure hunter (Indie often sets off traps, he's just very good at dodging the effects). Indie also needs at least 4 defense to both meet Mac122's requirments (durability) and be a viable figure. @NecroBlade: Hmmm... I like the idea. It is very thematic, and a tad bit more useful than the standard +4 to Trap rolls |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Great choice, mac! Indy is one of the only heroes I grew up with that is still one of my heroes today and is destined to be a hero for both of my sons.
I am sure it won't make the final cut of abilities, but one of the iconic scenes from the movies is the guy twirling the sword and Indy whips out his gun and shoots him... Quote:
I'll post more serious thoughts later. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I was going to write up my own card, but mk's seems very close to what I would do, so I'm just going to tweak his with my ideas, which are underlined in italics.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I'd be happy with using James Murphy's power. The rest looks great! As for the height differential on whip swing, I would suggest 6 levels.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
If I may suggest an alternate "Treasure Hunter" power from one of my own customs:
"Indiana Jones may add 2 to his Move number as long as he ends his movement on a Treasure Glyph. When you roll the 20-sided die for a Treasure Glyph trap with Indiana Jones, you may add 2 to your die roll." |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
How about this...
Aw! Just Shoot the Sucker 15 When an enemy figure with a Range of 1 ends its movement within 4 CLS of IJ, roll a 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher, IJ may immediately attack that figure with a normal attack. And a hat-tip to Harrison Ford for one of the best improv fight scenes in history. ;) |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
What about a terrain boost for dungeon / shadow?
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Indiana Jones
Movies Aquilla Human Unique Hero Adventurer? Valiant Medium 5 Life 4 Move 6 Range 5 Attack 3 Defense 4 Points ??? Treasure Hunter Indiana Jones may add 2 to his Move number as long as he ends his movement on a Treasure Glyph. When you roll the 20-sided die for a Treasure Glyph trap with Indiana Jones, you may add 2 to your die roll. Why Did It Have to Be Snakes Indiana Jones may not move adjacent to a Viper. If Indiana Jones begins his turn adjacent to a Viper, he must, if possible move at least one space away from that Viper. Indiana Jones rolls 2 less defense dice against Vipers. Whip Swing 3 Instead of a normal move, Indiana Jones may use his Whip Swing. Whip Swing has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Indiana Jones's Whip Swing, ignore elevations. Indiana Jones may swing over water without stopping, over figures without becoming engaged, and swing over obstacles such as ruins. Indiana Jones may move up to 6 levels up or down in a single Whip Swing. If Indiana Jones is engaged when he starts to Whip Swing, he does not take leaving engagement attacks. I tried to come up with an ability that covered movement and a boosted defense for Indy's whip, but they ended up too convoluted and wordy. Instead, I opted for the KC's adjustment of machinekng's Whip Swing and boosted Indy's base defense. Boosting his defense also helps keep him around, diminishing the need for a healing/toughness ability. Necro's Treasure Hunter fit wonderfully. http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2...e6bf03fcec.gif |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
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I love it every time I see it- the way he just turns around afterwards like, "OK, now back to what I was doing before I was so rudely interrupted." Quote:
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Not bad.
I question Indie's induction into Aquilla's Armies. I've always seen him more as a Jandar fellow. Stats look good. The wording for Why did it have to be snakes seems a bit clunky. I can't put my finger on what makes it so. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I think a lack of a comma after "if possible" is the major clunkiness for the wording of the Snakes ability.
That said, I think it's too limiting to say that he cannot move adjacent to one. Also, the 2 less defense dice make him way too easy to kill, but does nothing against the Hydra or Wo-Sa-Ga, which I really liked about the Slither wording. How about: Indiana Jones must end his movement if he moves into engagement with a figure with the Slither ability. He rolls one less attack die against any figure with the Slither ability. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
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IMO, it is more thematic for Indy to move away from, and avoid moving into engagement with a snake instead of stopping once he gets there. In Raiders, he had to clear a large area before he would lower himself into the room with the snakes. The lowered attack doesn't fit either, for me at least. He had no trouble killing snakes, but preferred to do it at range. I could see dropping the lowered defense, but Indy should be getting away from snakes or staying away from snakes. How about this. I have changed it from Vipers to cover all Scape snakes and I dropped the lowered defense. With only 2 parts to the ability instead of 3, it is a lot less clunky. Why Did It Have to Be Snakes Indiana Jones may not move adjacent to any figure with the Slither ability. If Indiana Jones begins his turn adjacent to a figure with the Slither ability, he must, if possible, move at least one space away from that figure. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Why Did It Have to be Snakes?
Indiana Jones may not end his turn adjacent to a figure with the Slither special power. Done. :D |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I like it, KC.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I think I'd be OK with Indy having 4 powers if two of them were that version of Snakes and a short Treasure Hunter power.
I'd also be in favor of, as part of the Treasure Hunter power, giving him a boost for dungeon/shadow. Maybe something like this...? Treasure Hunter Indiana Jones may roll 2 additional defense dice when he is on a dungeon or shadow space, and when he rolls to disarm a trap on a symbol-side up treasure glyph, he may add 3 to the roll. |
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I think it actually needs to say "end his movement..." instead of "end his turn", because I haven't defined what actually happens when he ends his turn next to a snake - just that he can't do it.
Why Did It Have To Be Snakes? Indiana Jones cannot end his movement adjacent to a figure with the Slither special power. He can move through a space adjacent to a snake, but can't end there. Which makes sense, because he runs past them all the time. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I worry that this version of Indy is missing a certain amount of cowbell. If you're playing a game without snakes or glyphs, he's not worth playing. That's too bad for one of my favorite characters of all time.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
May not be more "cow", but at least a jingle:
Treasure Hunter Indiana Jones may add 2 to his Move number as long as he ends his movement on a Treasure Glyph. When you roll the 20-sided die for a Treasure Glyph trap with Indiana Jones, you may add 2 to your die roll. Most glyphs are some sort of artifact, something that Indy would go after. This minor change would make Indy more useful as a glyph grabber in any game that uses them. Is a James Murphy Whip ability the "cowbell" you are looking for, Balantai? To get it on Indy's card, one of the other abilities would have to go - the print gets way too small with all 4. If that's the direction, Treasure Hunter and Whip Swing are the two I would keep. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I really like that glyph change, Mac.
A few options:
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I like the idea of allowing Indy to carry another figure with Whip Swing. Here's what I have so far.
Whip Swing 3 Instead of a normal move, Indiana Jones may use his Whip Swing. Whip Swing has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Indiana Jones's Whip Swing, ignore elevations. Indiana Jones may swing over water without stopping, over figures without becoming engaged, and swing over obstacles such as ruins. Indiana Jones may move up to 6 levels up or down in a single Whip Swing. Before using Whip Swing, you may choose a friendly, small or medium figure adjacent to Indiana Jones. After you move Indiana Jones, place the chosen figure adjacent to Indiana Jones. Any figure moved with Whip Swing does not take any leaving engagement attacks. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I like that alot, Mac. It'll make Indy much more useful.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
It takes up a lot of the card, but with the shortened snake power, it works really well.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
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Spoiler Alert!
I'd love to keep Snakes in there, but Treasure Hunter and the Whip abilities are much more important, IMO. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Question for you guys: would Whip Swing 3 as currently worded allow Indy to swing across a gap between 2 high points?
(Borrowed Lamaclowns example image from his Freerunning discussion.) http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...clown/CC1x.jpg I think it should, but not sure our wording covers that. |
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So, I think the wording covers it to allow Indy to travel as in the example pic. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I would say yes, since it's like the Shaolin Monks. As long as the final destination space is no more than 6 higher or lower, than yes. It's really a teleport power, in effect - at least in game mechanics.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Here's where Indy stands at the moment:
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
It looks fine. Theres is no real need to have the snakes ability, any more than than Spider-man needs spider tracers.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
It's too bad we can't have the Snakes ability on there, but I really like how he looks right now. As far as points go, I can see him at 120, maybe?
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I think he's less than 120. He's a single-attack hero with just 3 dice, and his abilities aren't all that game-breaking at all. I say 100 max.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Sorry i have not been on in a while. Been sick with the flu. I believe that 100 is reasonable for him because of his OK stats. Also, treasure hunter is not likely to occur often so it seems not very useful. Rope swing is probably his best ability. Also, for whip swing indie should not be able to swing over something of a certain height like 6 being the max.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Indiana Jones
Aquilla Human Unique Hero Adventurer Valiant Medium 5 Life 4 Move 6 Range 5 Attack 3 Defense 4 Points ??? TREASURE HUNTER Indiana Jones may add 2 to his Move number as long as he ends his movement on a Glyph. When you roll the 20-sided die for a Treasure Glyph trap with Indiana Jones, you may add 2 to your die roll. WHIP 12 After moving and before attacking, choose a small or medium figure adjacent to Indiana Jones. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the chosen figure cannot roll any defense dice if attacked by Indiana Jones this turn. WHIP SWING 3 Instead of a normal move, Indiana Jones may use his Whip Swing. Whip Swing has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Indiana Jones's Whip Swing, ignore elevations and obstacles that are no higher than 6 levels above Indiana Jones' base. Indiana Jones may swing over water without stopping, over figures without becoming engaged, and swing over obstacles such as ruins. Indiana Jones may move up to 6 levels up or down in a single Whip Swing. Before using Whip Swing, you may choose a friendly, small or medium figure adjacent to Indiana Jones. After you move Indiana Jones, place the chosen figure adjacent to Indiana Jones. Any figure moved with Whip Swing does not take any leaving engagement attacks. How about the sentence I put in about his base? |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
That should help clear up any questions about what Whip Swing can do.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
He is looking good. I would say between 90-110 points.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I think my only concern will be if it all fits on a card. Otherwise, I like him at 100 pts.
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
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EDIT: I tested it on both MSE and my own templates I use for my customs and it is extremely small text, possibly not legible when scaled to card size. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I have the previous version, without Taeblewalker's edit, in MSE and it is definitely a crowded card. Let me suggest this:
WHIP SWING 3 Instead of moving Indiana Jones normally, you may choose any empty space that is no more than 6 levels above or below Indiana Jones’ base and within 3 clear sight spaces of Indiana Jones. Place Indiana Jones on the chosen space. Before using Whip Swing, you may choose a friendly, small or medium figure adjacent to Indiana Jones. After you move Indiana Jones, place the chosen figure on any empty space adjacent to Indiana Jones. Any figure moved with Whip Swing does not take any leaving engagement attacks. It is based on Teleportation with a clear sight restriction instead of Swingline. IMO, it accomplishes the same thing and saves a couple lines on the card. If this is unacceptable, we may have to drop the part that allows Indy to take someone along for the ride. |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Can a space be within Line of Sight?
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Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
I don't think we can use that because now he can Whip Swing through a 999 level high wall as long as his landing point is within 6 of the starting point.
We could just nix Whip Swing altogether, bump his normal movement to 7 to compensate for it, and put the Snakes power back on.... |
Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
Yikes, KC I'd rather add the LOS wording, if possible.
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