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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Tornado April 19th, 2015 01:20 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I disagree about the Death Knights, they are no longer Knights. Reviewing the D&D Wiki, I found no mention of any Code.

I do like the idea of him working from inside evil to destroy evil.

If he is Valkril, I would still add Valkril to Code of Harry. That is really working from the inside. :)

Grishnakh April 19th, 2015 01:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Still waiting patiently for Ookla and Ariel. Thundarr can't ride without 'em!

If no one wants to tackle them I may give them a go myself.

Tornado April 19th, 2015 01:44 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
The real powerhouses are their horses. Thundarr whistles and the three can apparently jump from any height and land on their horses backs. :)

Grishnakh April 19th, 2015 02:05 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
And then the horses and riders can jump off of huge cliffs and survive!

Taeblewalker April 19th, 2015 02:22 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
When we designed Thundarr we used a figure who wasn't mounted. I guess for Ookla and Ariel we'll do the same thing. But my turn to design doesn't come around for a while.

McHotcakes April 20th, 2015 12:36 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2015816)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado
Einar is perfect

Death Knights are in Valkril and all knights have some code. I like Dexter teaming up with Death. I would argue that the other killers were Utgar. It kind of tickles me thinking of a Valkril hiding away in secret under the noses of police Einar. Evil vs Evil. Beast vs Devil.
And that color scheme!
I would argue that the police are Einar, the other researchers are Vydar, his sister is Jandar, but he distinctly sticks out. Harry would even be Einar probably.

I disagree about the Death Knights. Yes they are knights but they are not knights in the traditional sense. They are undead and hate all life. I highly doubt they are following the traditional codes of chivalry.

I just have a hard time seeing Dexter with Valkrill. Dexter's code tells him to never hurt the innocent. Does that sound like something Valkrill would say? I mean if Dexter ever gave in to his darkest urges and just killed everyone then I'd say yeah he's a perfect Valkrill, but the fact that he exercises restraint and actually thinks that what he's doing protects innocent people just doesn't fit well. That being said its your design and I won't dig my heels in. Consider this my last pitch for Einar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred
Thank you again for that figure suggestion. It looks perfect. You should tell me how you found him ;)

I honestly just thought 'what comic character looks like Dexter? Peter Parker!' And so I googled Peter Parker heroclix and up it came.

Confred April 20th, 2015 12:37 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Resolution list:
1) Blood Splatter Analysis
2) Faction
3) Code of Harry
4) Is it OK to exclude Dexter Morgan's use of Tranquilizers? I think it is, because it's not his main function. I think if I had to choose a condensed version of Dexter, it would be an Assassin vs a Disabler. You could say that part of the big +3 bonus includes the tranquilizer
5) Is it OK to exclude Dexter Morgan's use of Kill Rooms/Killing Rituals? Every version I thought of seemed wonky and distracting from the current streamlined design. You could say that forcing Dexter to attacked when not adjacent to anything else represents a specially chosen spot.

Confred April 20th, 2015 05:12 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2016003)
Resolution list:
2) Faction
3) Code of Harry

OK the Faction/General debate is trending now so I'll first focus on that.
Harry Morgan is Einar. To hide from the world that his son is a monster, he has given his son a Code so that he can be more like Einar. If this were Magic: The Gathering, Dexter would have an off-color mechanic.
Following the code doesn't make you one with the code. While Dexter did follow it very well, lived by it even, it wasn't truly in his heart - an important factor Generals look at when summoning.
Dexter is a monster, perhaps even an evil one - yes evil doers have codes and ethics. Most RL serial killers and you-name-its in prison probably had 'rules' to live by.
There are two "evil monster factions":
Utgar and Valkril
In this land of Valhalla, it's all about Jandar vs Utgar. This is Jandar's realm, Viking Heaven, to fight endless battles and drink endless ale. Utgar's near sole purpose is to provide things for Jandar to slaughter, legit evil things to be worthy of battle. His purpose is to be antagonistic, to be evil
Utgar = Evil evildoer, antagonist
Valkril = Evil bystander, like an evil Aquilla
Dexter is the beast, is death, is Valkril (98% certain)
What he kills are the antagonists of whom he tries to follow the rules to fit in with Einar, to fit in with Jandar, to kill the truly "bad guys".
That's why he bonuses exclusively off them. [Code Of Harry]
In the show he tries to find others like him and even tries to share his code. He's willing to let other evil bystanders live. It's when they're 'bad' or 'wrong', antagonistic, does he make them their target. Obviously we the player know what generals each figure is affiliated with, but in Dexter's world, figures don't know. That's how Dexter can hide with Einar, because he's acting that way and they cannot see his card. That's why he vets his chosen targets, he confirms they are Utgar. If they are just something else, Valkril, he lets them go.

Besides, his color scheme rocks atop a Valkril Army Card and is down right ugly on an Einar card base ;)

Above what I wrote, I did so while thinking about this question, a thinking out loud if you will. My way of sharing to best work as a team. Through it I've found that Dexter Morgan being Valkril and against Utgar while assisting Lawmen(Einar) is critical to his character and this design.

McHotcakes April 21st, 2015 12:21 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
You've convinced me enough. I can buy Dexter as Valkrill, even if I don't completely agree with it. But I'll hold my tongue :p

Confred April 21st, 2015 01:30 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes (Post 2015787)
BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST
If any figures that you control were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with any Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control. If a figure you control was destroyed last turn, then Dexter and all Lawman figures you control will not take leaving engagement attacks this turn.

Changes:
BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST
If any figures were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with any Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control, or with Dexter Morgan. If a figure was destroyed last turn, for the duration of this turn, Dexter Morgan and Lawmen figures you control will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
Breakdown of Changes: Commentary:
1) ...with any Lawman hero..: "any" is an official standard for choosing targets. I had incorrectly used "a"
2) If a figure was destroyed last turn,: This was originally in the middle of the sentence; it has been moved to the front to mirror the first part of the power starting with "If".
3) for the duration of this turn,: "this turn" has been replaced with "for the duration of this turn" on all the newest official cards, so for the sake of continuity Dexter Morgan will also use such phrasing.
Spoiler Alert!

4) Lawmen figures...: Originally this power enhanced all your figures. If we're going the 'gained access due to enabling search warrant from blood evidence' route, it makes sense for only Lawmen that use warrants to be boosted.
5) figures you control: I originally had all figures receiving the bonus, even enemy figures
6) will not take any leaving engagement attacks: "can't be attacked for leaving an engagement" is not the phrasing official cards use; newest and most official cards use "will not take any leaving engagement attacks"
7) Note: I did not adopt the proposal of limited the wounded and dead to your figures. Dexter studies all blood, even when caused by him and his allies, or by two rivals not concerning his own army. I like the idea of having a figure with Counter Strike in Dexter's army to make wounds and then Dexter Analyze that blood for the boost. I've combed my mindspace for abuse of not limiting the victims to your figures and I couldn't find any. But always counter observations are welcomed.

Updated Image:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...9_original.jpg
Added "value" after "Attack" to be more consistent with official cards like Siege.
Edit: Above in the spoiler there is a version that doesn't use the "for the duration" phrasing that I think I like better; comments from ya'll are welcome.
Spoiler Alert!

McHotcakes April 23rd, 2015 11:34 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
For Blood Splatter Analyst you don't need to list Dexter Morgan as figures you can take a turn with instead of Dexter Morgan. It doesn't make sense to say instead of, and then put the original option. It's also not necessary because the rest of Blood Splatter Analyst effects Dexter. I think you can just leave it as Instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with any Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control. and leave it at that.

Confred April 23rd, 2015 01:17 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes (Post 2016765)
For Blood Splatter Analyst you don't need to list Dexter Morgan...

By Job, I think you're right!
Updated version:
BLOOD SPLATTER ANALYST
If any figures were wounded last turn, instead of taking this turn normally with Dexter Morgan, you may take a turn with any Lawman hero or Lawmen squad you control. If a figure was destroyed last turn, Dexter Morgan and Lawmen figures you control will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Originally the second part was tied to the first and that is why Dexter was included, but it's been tweaked enough that I think you're correct and we can same some wordspace.

Keep up the diligence!

I have some family events coming up and no days off until next week, but I plan to play test soon.

Testing at POINTS 40 - 60


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