Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
I was on the other side of the debate from Japes on this one.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
Yeah, I think it was LO, not Yodaking. :2cents: Though I'm sympathetic to points being made there as well.
I'll make testing her next up after Atlantean Palace Guards. I would've prioritized it, but I thought things were still in flux. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
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I wouldn't jump to it mainly because it's not an immediately necessary balancing measure without special powers in vehicles, and it would be kind of a blow to Commons/Squads operating vehicles. (And I can foresee some really thematic possibilities in that arena, like a Blackhawks squad) So with the ruleset seeming mostly settled here... let's move the Sports Car to public testing. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (VOTE Public Testin
If you need a vote, I've been following along enough to give you a yea.
I was thinking the other day about a driving a bulldozer through the Warehouse Ruins breakable wall DO and knocking down other DO's like trees. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (VOTE Public Testin
Cool with this direction. :up: If/when it gets to public testing it is high on my priority list.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (VOTE Public Testin
Testing can't be a bad thing. yea
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (VOTE Public Testin
Yea, baby!
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (VOTE Public Testin
Make this an official yea from me, and this passes to public testing.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Awesome, I'll post it up in the testing thread.
Thanks for the bump, Bats. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
No worries. :up: I've been keeping this one on my radar to clear the streets for an eventual Batmobile LD.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Any recommendations on who to test the Sports Car with? Not OM hubs for sure. With the no special powers rule I guess it would be mostly not very mobile melee figures who want to get into the battle fast?
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Since using it as armor is a concern, I'd certainly draft it with low defense low life melee figures vs. ranged attackers. Drive up using the car as armor vs. the ranged attacks, then jump out and punch away.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Can we get the current rules being tested linked to the FP.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Good idea! Added.
Also threw in some bullet points on some of the tweaks that have been discussed. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Thanks!
Bats, (and any other heroes that were around back then) when the rules were first created was the idea of trying to run over people while driving a car ever discussed? |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
The Sports Car has that as a special power, rather than having that baked into the rules.
I think that makes sense - it's the big thing for a regular car, but the Mole Machine, for instance, can focus on something else without the overhead of trying to mow people down. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
That makes sense. I just really want to run some one over with a Zamboni machine being driven by Deadpool so I guess I'll have to get working on a card.
http://img.ifcdn.com/images/7553544a...946c5939_1.jpg Steamroller might make for a better DO though. http://i.imgur.com/HJDDKMN.jpg |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Yep we did it in the special rules, ultimately (there was some discussion but we didn’t want to go too complex).
I’m struggling to come up with good builds that make these worth 150 points when you have to be temporarily nullified to use them. I’d love some army build suggestions here as I’m drawing a blank. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
This is what I came up with when I was brainstorming builds for the initial:
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
I don't feel like you need anything too juiced to make the Sports Car a decent value, though. Just throw a ground-pounder or two that appreciates the mobility in there and it can do pretty decently for you, between the mobility and the auto-wounds.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
I wonder if it would be any good to run some sort of Civilian army where you have a bunch of low cost squaddies driving around beefy cars. There's enough Civilian support in game to at least play with the idea.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Hmm, I might try that. I'm thinking I'm going to try pretty low point tests for this.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Torq it up! :)
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
I'm going lazy/cheap on this. Not learning new figs or printing new cards. It'll be enough to keep the finer points of the VDO rules in mind.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Probably a good idea. :)
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
I'll be lucky if I mess up fewer than half a dozen things. :-P
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Got one quick test in tonight with another lined up for tomorrow, hopefully. The car is coming in strong so far, with the Civilians pairing up nicely.
I'm not 100% sure I played the test right as the car's special power nullification shouldn't affect a figure being activated through Crowd Movement, I don't think, but it's possible that I should've attacked once less an Order Marker with the Civilians as a result of the powers not working in the car thing (i.e. I moved the car with a Civvie and since I activated them with a move and since their Crowd Movement wouldn't work, I'd be committing to attacking with them instead of the Civvies outside?). I'm honestly not sure how that works and it might've made it slightly closer if I weren't attacking all four times while also driving around. I definitely didn't have any Civilians in the car contribute to Strength in Numbers or move with Panic, though. Those two are plenty clear. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
That is weird. To me, it looks like you could still move with 8 citizens you control and attack with any 4 citizens you control but since you don't control the civilians in the vehicle, they would not be among that number.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Hmm so if I reveal the Order Marker on the Civilians and move the car rather than moving a Civilian in the car, at that point did I cut off the rest of my turn? Or can I still activate seven other non-car Civilians since the power still affects them?
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
OK, I probably had a tad more of a margin of victory than I should have with the Civilians (probably not by much, though) due to being a bit unrestricted with Crowd Movement. Here's how I'm translating the way I should have played it, though:
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I'm hoping to get feedback on whether you all feel I'm translating things correctly here! :-) Weird interaction for sure. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Going to need a rules lawyer here. I think you are on the right track.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
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Here's the vehicle rule: Quote:
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Why would you not control your figures in the vehicle? Your' opponent doesn't control them and they are not dead or otherwise incapacitated.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
You only 'control' figures on the battlefield. If a figure's off the battlefield, no-one controls it, even if it isn't destroyed.
It's part of why we defined 'in play' to include undestroyed figures that aren't on the battlefield - it gives a good shorthand that includes those figures. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
So then the rules need to be amended to refer to those figures in cars as figure in play rather than figures you control right?
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
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OK that invalidates my first test (I will retest) and makes me think I would probably never draft the car and civilians together, due to the importance of crowd movement to them. So with the rules is it instead of moving normally with just that figure or instead of moving normally with the whole squad? |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
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Definitely worth clarifying either way, while we're tinkering around with the rules. |
Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
I think it is the former too and what’s happening here is that Crowd Movement is the latter. So you could drive the car with a Civvie and move three other figures, but couldn’t use Crowd Movement for the full 8.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Might be too late now, but I kind of feel only heroes should be jumping into the cars and driving around. It's not that a common street thug can't drive, it's more of a mechanical issue where I wouldn't want to see a 3-4 figure squad driving around in 3-4 different vehicles all on the same turn, so the theme would be that squad figures just don't take the individual initiative to jump into a vehicle while a hero does have individual initiative.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Well we could solve that by making it instead of moving normally with the whole card, I guess. I’ll need a decided upon direction for that before I can do any more squad testing.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Yep. And I think that would’ve made my test much closer. Do we want to forge ahead as is or nerf squads any by making it instead of moving normally for the whole card?
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
I don't see a reason to nerf squads yet.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
If we create tanks or helicopter gunships that provide a SA option in the future, then we should be sure to require at least 2 figures in the vehicle to use the SA then. One driver, one gunner. That will at least keep the 4 figure common or unique squad limited to only driving and shooting with 2 tanks or helicopters per OM instead of 4.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Sounds good. The special power nullification already cuts out abuses by turn bonding heroes.
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Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Public Testing)
Even with the change, the Civilians really like a Sports Car to drive around. I did, notably, go 6/7 on the 50/50 Hit and Run roll, so that affected these tests, but I also improved my win margin from the prior test did to the power of an unwounded, never activated Huntress.
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: SPORTS CAR Army Test Map: Custom Units: Civilians (x4), Huntress, Sports Car (150) (500) vs Batman (200), Robin (Dick Grayson) (100), Green Arrow (150) Atom (50) (500)
Spoiler Alert!
___________________________________________________________ Army TestMap: Custom Units: Human Torch (225), Sports Car (150), Thing (325) (700) vs Black Canary (190), Oracle (110), Green Arrow (150), Red Arrow (150), Robin (Dick Grayson) (100) (700)
Spoiler Alert!
___________________________________________________________ AFTER CHANGE TO SQUAD MOVEMENT Army Test Map: Custom Units: Civilians (x4), Huntress, Sports Car (150) (500) vs Batman (200), Robin (Dick Grayson) (100), Green Arrow (150) Atom (50) (500)
Spoiler Alert!
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