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-   -   The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55039)

japes December 10th, 2019 08:01 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
yea

johnny139 December 10th, 2019 08:42 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
My Yea stands from earlier.

quozl December 10th, 2019 10:45 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Small thing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207184)
A DO is not considered under a player's control, unless it is a VDO occupied by a figure in your army.

This is pretty restrictive. Are we sure we don't want to make any other types of DOs that might be under a player's control?

Yodaking December 11th, 2019 12:17 AM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2338006)
Small thing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2207184)
• A DO is not considered under a player's control, unless it is a VDO occupied by a figure in your army.

This is pretty restrictive. Are we sure we don't want to make any other types of DOs that might be under a player's control?


Good catch. I envision other kinds of draftable DO's. Even if that never happens, I imagine if you draft the Batmobile, it is still in your army even when it isn't occupied. That's why it has the remote, so you can keep driving it around while not occupied.

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 07:35 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
In your army =/= under your control. All that's saying is that the only way DOs are under your control is if they're a VDO one of your figures is occupying.

I believe the Batmobile Remote actually specifies control information as well. Part of the purpose of special powers is to break/modify the rules in rule books, which is how the Batmobile Remote approaches it.

If someone wants to create draftable DOs other than VDOs it would be on them to establish whether those DOs could be under your control and what it would take for them to be under your control. I imagine for most of them it'd be enough to simply have them in your army and be able to place them. I can't think of a lot of animated DOs that would need actual controlling and not just be VDOs. But, it's not my responsibility to imagine them, because that's not the purpose of this rule set.

Draftable DO rules can certainly be made that break or update rules here. I don't feel any responsibility for planning for hypothetical futures like that in this rule set, however.

Down to LP and Arkham or time. :-)

quozl December 11th, 2019 08:22 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
I was thinking of other draftable DOs that are not vehicles that can be occupied and controlled, like a gun turret.

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 08:25 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
I'm sure a more generic draftable DO rule set or the card of the gun turret itself could cover that. That sounds like terrain to me, though, so I'd be curious how drafting and placing it would work.

Again, though, I don't think it's the responsibility of this rule set to figure all that out.

quozl December 11th, 2019 11:03 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Right but it's also the responsibility of this ruleset not to restrict unnecessarily.

Is that line necessary?

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 11:23 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Yes, because the way draftable DOs have been tested thus far, they're only under a player's control if they're occupied VDOs. There has been no other way in which a DO in your army has been allowed to be under a player's control, so simply having the line "A DO included in a player's army is considered like any other figure in that player's army, with a few key exceptions:" and not establishing that not automatically being in control of a DO in your army is an exception would create a hole in the rules and a lack of clarity for how VDOs function.

MrNobody December 11th, 2019 11:29 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Hold up, I was told several times by multiple different people that this ruleset does cover other kinds of draftable DOs. Are you saying it doesn’t? Because that would invalidate the Green Battery design that’s already been started. These are the rules for all Draftable DOs as far as I know.

I personally like the line. A DO is a machine that doesn’t have sentience or make decisions, so anyone on any team can be “in control” of it. If you want a DO that deviates from that (say an AI turret or KITT from Knight Rider), that sounds like special power territory to me.

MrNobody December 11th, 2019 11:36 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Okay, rereading, I get what Quozl is saying better. Why not just change the line to this?
Quote:

• A DO is not considered under a player's control, unless it is a VDO occupied by a figure in your army.

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 11:38 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
I'm fine with that. Edited in to the SP.

quozl December 11th, 2019 11:50 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
I thought about that change at first but I don't think it works. A building is a DO and can be occupied but cannot be controlled.

A better fix would be:

A VDO is not considered under a player's control unless it is occupied by a figure in your army.

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 11:56 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2338065)
I thought about that change at first but I don't think it works. A building is a DO and can be occupied but cannot be controlled.

A better fix would be:

A VDO is not considered under a player's control unless it is occupied by a figure in your army.

A building isn't going to be in your army, so these rules aren't relevant to a building. The lead in phrase to the bullet point in question establishes this.

I'm also not 100% sure a building is going to be a DO, rather than select parts of a building, but that's a whole different rabbit hole. :-)

Your better fix is worse, IMO, as it leaves open an interpretation for any non VDO that's drafted in your army to be considered under your control as a default under these rules, which I do not believe is desirable.

quozl December 11th, 2019 12:05 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
So porta-potties won't be draftable?

I think the better fix is to say draftable DOs and not under your control unless specified by that DO's rules. Then in the VDO rules you say how VDOs are controlled.

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 12:15 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
I've seen no indication that the Portable Toilet was intended to be drafted. There's no point cost listed in its SP and it's not been discussed as a draftable DO.

Yodaking December 11th, 2019 01:27 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
I believe Nobody's fix, that Bats accepted, works for my concerns. :up:

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 02:27 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Glad to hear it. I struggle to think of a situation in which we'd want to allow a DO to be 1. In your army 2. Occupied by you and 3. This not mean it's in your control.

Even if we DID make the Portable Toilets draftable, I'm not sure what mechanical consequence there would be to controlling it or not. :shrug:

MrNobody December 11th, 2019 02:31 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
I am the Porta-Potty Controller, controller of the porta-potties!

BEWARE MY WRATH!

Yodaking December 11th, 2019 03:00 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Just trying to give you some insight into my thinking here, just in case you see some rules wording implication I don't see.

I was thinking about my Freeze Ray Gun DO for Dr. Horrible idea (also Quozl's gun turret comment made me think of HoSS's DO that is a weapon you have to enter). Not exactly sure how it will all work out in the end, it could be something that only works via a remote control feature, it could be something anyone runs up next to and can use, or maybe it's drafted into an army and can only be used you your adj. figures and not the opponents (like a code or fingerprint or something is required to turn it on). Just wanted to leave design space open concerning control of a draftable DO without actually occupying it.

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 03:06 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Sounds like something the special rules will specify in terms of control. Special rules on cards exist to give exceptions to rules in rule books, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Yodaking December 11th, 2019 03:06 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
:up:

IAmBatman December 11th, 2019 08:09 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
Need two votes or 19 hours here.

IAmBatman December 12th, 2019 03:01 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 
This passes to On Deck! @japes if you could make that small edit to that bullet point mentioned above when you get a chance, that'd be much appreciated. :-)

Lazy Orang January 7th, 2020 04:22 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Wait, just noticed something -
Why is the Sports Car Unique? Thematically it should be Uncommon.

IAmBatman January 7th, 2020 08:26 AM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang (Post 2341382)
Wait, just noticed something -
Why is the Sports Car Unique? Thematically it should be Uncommon.

Good point. Thematically, and it was also tested that way! We'll need an update on the card for it before release.

Tornado January 16th, 2020 03:51 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Did we ever discuss No Cover for VDOs like motorcycles?

IAmBatman January 16th, 2020 06:40 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Discuss, yes. Finalize rules for? No.

Tornado January 16th, 2020 10:16 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Is that something we want to do?
Mostly it would just be being able to attack the Driver adjacently correct?

IAmBatman January 16th, 2020 10:30 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
I have no plans to LD any open vehicles. I'm not against others doing so if that's what they want.

MrNobody January 16th, 2020 10:33 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
I honestly think it makes sense for them to be partial cover anyways - they are technically providing some cover. It just seems like making most of the motorcycle green is a lot easier than making up a whole new ruleset for people to remember.

IAmBatman January 16th, 2020 10:38 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
I agree with the concept of partial cover for them. Figuring out their hitzones will be tricky. Honestly, though, having vehicles that expose their driver seat but don't have an actual figure there will always look odd to me anyway.

Yodaking January 17th, 2020 01:03 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
I did print off a Cobra Fang single person helicopter and the pilot is fully exposed above the waist. I don't know if I'll ever get around to doing it or not as a VDO, but it would make sense to me to allow for some vehicles within our rules that allow for the driver/pilot to be shot directly at.

IAmBatman January 17th, 2020 01:04 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yodaking (Post 2342625)
I did print off a Cobra Fang single person helicopter and the pilot is fully exposed above the waist. I don't know if I'll ever get around to doing it or not as a VDO, but it would make sense to me to allow for some vehicles within our rules that allow for the driver/pilot to be shot directly at.

Glad to hear it! :-) I encourage you to read the Partial Cover section of the completed rule book.

Yodaking January 17th, 2020 01:44 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Will do. I've lost track of where the rules are currently at. Sorry, just trying to be more engaged and helpful now I've returned to full hero status. Is the question then just no cover at all for motorcycle riders, while someone sitting in a convertible is already addressed as partial cover? Ghost Rider already has a motorcycle, plus we have Hawkeye II and Two Gun Kid on skycylces. I would think someone riding a motorcycle VDO would be treated the same way as they are.

IAmBatman January 17th, 2020 03:38 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Ghost Rider and Hawkeye II are treated as figures, not VDOs. So there's that.

We currently have Full Cover and Partial Cover VDOs. Partial Cover let you shoot in and out with the hit zones established by the "target points" (which are much larger than normal ones) on the vehicle. I imagine a convertible would have a pretty significant targeting area.

Tornado January 17th, 2020 08:24 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Ah, I think I remember now. I believe we decided that you would be zooming around on a motorcycle and that would create enough difficulty to prevent hand to hand attacks.
I was looking at a possible custom for a flying disc style VDO and was considering full exposure. I guess a negative power could always be used to reinforce any vulnerability.
Thanks.

Ronin January 20th, 2020 07:27 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Spider-Mobile has an open top, so we'll have to figure it out before too long... planning on hitting the initial soon.

Tornado February 8th, 2020 12:21 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
If Shadowcat I is driving a VDO by herself, is that VDO affected by Phase Touch?
Invisible Car?

IAmBatman February 8th, 2020 12:25 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
According to the rules a VDO is considered a figure and if it's in your army or she's in the driver's seat it would be friendly, so I'd say yes, invisible car.

Tornado February 8th, 2020 12:52 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Pretty cool. I was considering using her as a passenger and thought about her just affecting the car.
She would not be able to affect a Driver if she is a passenger correct?
Because she is adjacent to the Driver and the VDO.

IAmBatman February 8th, 2020 12:55 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Correct. And if the Driver is friendly, the car is friendly.

Tornado February 8th, 2020 01:05 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Ok, thanks. That changes Kitty's role a bit. She needs a single occupancy VDO. :)

Yodaking February 8th, 2020 02:07 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Finally I have a way to make that Invisible Jet!

IAmBatman February 8th, 2020 05:27 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
I have the Invisible Jet clix figure, lol.

Spidey'tilIDie February 10th, 2020 02:22 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Yeah, I was looking for that War wheel and got two Invisible Jets! (Stupid blind purchases. :grumble: )

quozl February 10th, 2020 02:56 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
I looked for an Invisible Jet but I couldn't see any.

Tornado February 20th, 2020 03:27 PM

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules
 
Going over the rules it says a figure inside may never attack a figure outside, so that rules out someone like Anderson or Prof X?
You could only use special powers that do not require clear sight?
What are some good powers.like that?


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