Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Color me not too worried about Quentin, at least less than Anderson. He’s okay, but the fact that he disrupts most Mutant synergy has always held him back from being super viable imo. Being able to hide in a car is an advantage for him, seeing as he’s kind of fragile, but he’s still just a 130 point figure.

My main goal is just to not have full cover vehicles all have to be designed around one cheap tactic from a single figure. I think there’s always going to be a tactic that’s cheap, but as long as it isn’t majorly influencing design decisions the way Anderson seemed to be doing I’m happy.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Yeah, I think a big thing with Quentin is that he can't move while using his auto wounding, so the kiting potential is much less. Anderson really wasn't that tough with the Batmobile, but she was clearly good, so I'm OK with making this change. I'm hoping @Ronin @johnny139 or @Karat can take a look at Yodaking's suggested wording, though. And I'd also like to hear from the Heroes at large on this before making the change since this is technically in Final Editing. :-)

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

I don't like the phrase "No special power on an Army Card may circumvent this rule." because then we sort of reach the point where, like, what rules are the final authority? Card powers in general are "higher rank" than the rulebook - the rules say you can only attack once per turn, Double Attack says you can, Double Attack wins.

I'd instead go with something like, "even if a special power or special attack specifies does not require line of sight." Something more specific, so that powers would trump rules if done so directly.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

I tried basing it on Blob's "I overrule all other powers in the game concerning movement powers" language. Wordsmiths can change it however they feel.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Not sure we even need clarification like that if we don’t mention clear sight and just say they can’t attack figures outside the vehicle.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Whatever people feel is or isn't needed is fine with me, as long as we all agree on the intent.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Does just this wording look good to folks, then, and are the Heroes down with this change?

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Pretty sure that works. :up:

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

OK. I'll give folks overnight to chime in if they have concerns and then, if they don't, I'll update the SP.

Good idea here, Yodaking. Thanks!

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Looks good to me.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

SP updated! The fifteen month saga continues ....

Speaking of, @japes where is this at in terms of Art? :-D

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

I'm with johnny - I've never liked that language on Cyberclaw powers. It makes things like Juggernaut - a power designed specifically to circumnavigate such powers - trickier than they should be. I'd like to leave room for a card that we want to say can shoot out of a vehicle - doesn't say we have to do it, but it leaves design space open, and it's not like it'll necessarily be broken if it's baked into the unit from its own design.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

We've already moved past that wording, so no worries. :-)

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Every time I start back you guys are discussing something new so I slow play it.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

I think/hope/believe we are done. :-)

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

The week before thanksgiving I’ll have a lot of home alone time so at worst I’ll get caught up then.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Thanks! I'm rooting for it! :-D :nether:

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Updated the cover shot in the FP as well as uploaded the newly revised and updated PDF. I picked up the edits in the SP as well as MrNobody and A3n comments

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

The PDF’s bullet listing for what the rules cover has a typo. It says Existing Vehicles instead of Exiting.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

impossible. Someone would have caught that earlier. I think someone needs glasses.

J/K

Fixed and updated. Thanks.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 

Sweet! +rep coming your way, sir! :-)

Let's get this one in the garage! I propose we move to On Deck.
@japes -
@Arkham -
@Karat -
@johnny139 -
@Soundwarp SG-1 -
@Lord Pyre -

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Looks great. Glad we were able to easily tweak these to allow all DOs to be draftable if we want.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

For sure! I'm hoping you'll run an update for the Mole Machine eventually. :-)

Speaking of, once we get this wrapped, I will start a thread for the draftable version of the Sports Car - unless folks think we should just update the current thread when we release these rules?

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

No reason to start a new thread, just update the old one in my opinion. You can still use the same card for the VDO in scenarios, so I see no reason to have 2 versions of the card.

Not really motivated to make the Mole Machine draftable right now. Several things I would want to do before that and my pace will probably slow down a bit around here.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Book looks great! I'll give it a final readthrough soon and vote her through. :up:

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Seems fine to me, but I'm not a proofreader so I'm not your huckleberry for catching typos and such.

yea

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Quick-and-dirty notes (low laptop battery, so not double-checking myself on anything or doing a lot of formatting):

-Drafting
--Start Zone? (should be caps, I think)
--Extraneous period in third bullet point (Army. Card.)

-Entering
--Army Card (card should be capitalized) right at the start of the section
--Probably shouldn't capitalize the list of sizes
--I'd spell out the numbers in "but only has 1 figure occupying it, a 2nd figure can enter that car"
--As far as "specific entrances/exits marked on the figure itself", just to be super duper clear... does having a door on the sculpt count? Picture suggests no. So what would that look like?

-Occupying
--Allowing to move to the driver's space at the cost of one space of movement.... this is the vehicle's movement, presumably? I'd rewrite this sentence either way, because switching the driver with another figure isn't quite normal movement.

-P&FC
--Hmm, how will we mark clear sight openings for a car with an open top? Not really a problem for this rulebook, just something I've been thinking about.

-Moving
--We mention that VDOs never take LEAs here, but it might be worth rewording that to mention that the reason they don't is because they're never considered engaged? I think that'd be worth emphasizing, and it provides more context if someone quickly looks the movement rules up.

-Exiting
--Engagement within VDOs is mentioned for the first time here... I think it's a logical extrapolation of what's mentioned in Occupying, but it should be specifically mentioned in Occupying for clarity. (Especially because getting enemy figures into the same vehicle will be a departure for anyone who played the old version of the VDO rules)

-Destroying
--I think "no LEAs" should be spelled out for the figures that were inside the car, as well as the ones droping off the top. (Given that they can be engaged inside the car)

Looking real sharp here, guys!

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Fixed the ones I could in the SP. The ones I put in red were already fine in the SP, so must be in the booklet specifically.

For the portions in blue:

1. I changed the text to indicate that it was marked both on the figure and on the Army Card. We'll have to figure out how exactly we want to do that when we get to VDOs that do that (The TARDIS may be the first) but that should at least give us the opening we need to do so without making the specifics a "today problem."

2. I imagine we'd have to add a third, overhead hitzone for ones that are open air. I find those mostly annoying due to the fact that, thematically, you should be able to see a figure that's in an open air vehicle, so probably not something I'll be doing much myself. But I understand that things like motorcycles and convertible sports cars are likely to happen.

3. I understand where you're coming from, but ... Occupying has this line currently: "Figures occupying a VDO are considered adjacent to all other figures occupying that VDO and to the VDO itself, but are never considered adjacent to or engaged with figures outside of the VDO."

I don't think it's unreasonable for us to ask users to know that two enemy figures adjacent to each other are considered engaged. I feel it'd be awkward to add essentially a definition of engagement to that clause.

Great notes overall! Thanks, Ronin. :-)

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Should be up to date now.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Sweet! You rock.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

DRAFTING DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS
...
{missing "in"}
A DO included in a player's army is considered like any other figure in that player's army, with a few key exceptions:

{This confuses me...}
• A DO is not considered under a player's control, unless it is a VDO occupied by a figure in your army.
{I thought that was the idea of draftable DOs. You having control of them? Why else are we making them draftable?}


EXAMPLE 1: Vehicle Card
{missing fullstop}
Like the Official Destructible Object cards, Vehicle Destructible Object (VDO) cards have a similar appearance but with a few additions.

{I don't think this is succinct enough}
Driver Space: The circle space is where the figure is placed and designates who the driver of the vehicle is.
{Maybe something like...?}

OCCUPYING VEHICLES
...
{I think this needs an addition to say they have to move the figure to driver space}
If a figure you control is the only figure occupying a VDO or if a figure you control is occupying the designated Driver space in a VDO, you now control that VDO. If your figure is the only figure occupying the VDO, that figure must be placed on the Driver Space of the card.

{Not sure of the intent here so I think it needs a little more clarity of who can be targeted.}
Unless a special power indicates otherwise, a figure can only target one figure occupying a VDO at a time.
{If there are multiple figures occupying the vehicle how &/or who chooses which is being targeted? Is it always the driver first? Or driver last?}


MOVING VEHICLES
{You don't move Army Cards}
Instead of moving normally with an Army Card you control, if one of the figures from that card occupies the Driver space for a VDO, you may move that VDO any number of spaces up to its Move number. You may only move each VDO this way once during each player turn.
{What about...?}
{Do we need to mention if VDOs are subject to all terrain rules? Like water, snow, heavy snow or road? But especially water?}
When moving the VDO, follow standard movement rules. VDOs are never considered engaged and never make or receive leaving engagement attacks.


EXITING VEHICLES
...
{I feel like this is an important paragraph & should be highlighted by either being in a coloured box or at the least all bold.}
If your figure exits a VDO that you do not control and your figure does not have the Super Strength special power, before placing your figure, roll one unblockable attack die against it.


DESTROYING VEHICLES
...
After removing the destroyed VDO from the battlefield, players may, in initiative order, place all of their figures that remain on top of the VDO's sculpt on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed VDO.
{Duplicated sentence.}
Then players may, in initiative order, place each remaining figure they control that was occupying the VDO's Army Card on a space or spaces previously occupied by the destroyed VDO. If a figure that was occupying a destroyed VDO cannot be placed on a legal space or spaces, that figure is immediately destroyed.

{I think we need an example of how this all works included in the book.}

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Answers in red.

"how all this works" is a bit vague, but I'm open to someone ambitious and with a good camera putting one together. I'm not sure where I'd start, though, or what exactly you're looking for.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

A few things I noticed:

- Example 1 box has "Uniquenes" instead of "Uniqueness"
- We introduce DO and VDO without defining them. Pretty easy to figure out what means what, but I'd like the first instance of each to include a parenthetical clarifying to make sure.

Otherwise it looks good - these booklets are always top notch.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Already had the red under Example 1 and added the blue just now:

Edit: And Uniqueness was right in the SP, but apparently japes missed an "s" when copying over. :-P

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Ah, I see, they're in the Example box - didn't think to check there. Works for me. :up:

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

OK. I'm calling a moratorium on wording edits. We've had our best and brightest all take at least one pass at it and things have been updated. In the interest of not letting perfect be the enemy of good, I'm going to let @japes do the final edits here based on the comments and the SP updates, then I'm going to call for the On Deck vote again and let that vote go through one way or the other. :-)

I think it's time for this to wrap and for energies spent on it to be repurposed elsewhere!

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Cool. I should be able to get this tomorrow.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Thanks. :up: Just let me know. Down to six voters here, so hopefully when I call the vote again it'll go pretty smoothly.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Yea once it's updated. The public are the best proofreaders anyways, I'm sure they'll point out anything we miss. :p

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

I just hope after this collective effort that they DO read and find enjoyment out of the rules!

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Well said. Really excited for this one. A major stepping stone to CityScape.
Thanks for all time spent on this one japes!

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Sorry I'm late to the party, but I just finally read through them in their entirety. Edits/questions below.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

OK, made what is hopefully the last edits for that first paragraph and the typo. Thanks, Karat.

I'm going to keep those two paragraphs you mentioned last, as they cover different things (figures on top of a VDO and figures occupying a VDO).

Should be good to go now. :-)

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Oh and Yea after we get updated.

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

Updated!!!!!!!!!

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

:woot:

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck
 

OK. Got Karat's yea already, so with this last proposal for On Deck I just need:

@japes - yea
@Arkham -
@johnny139 - yea
@Soundwarp SG-1 - yea
@Lord Pyre -

Re: The Book of Vehicle Rules - VOTE for On Deck