Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

True, but the H&R is really nice and with Sue in the passenger seat you do not need the Rubber Wrap as much. I may try one Car next time with Lady B at the Wheel and Sue as a passenger. Hmm, maybe not though as Lady B has fairly low Defense, even at +4.
Blob maybe?
Iron Man is solid with a high defense and double attack, maybe Iceman.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Good question. From a theme stand point, I agree that sitting down in a car seat and punching out the window at someone outside feels wrong. But then standing up outside of the car and punching into a window at someone sitting in a seat feels right, unless of course they are sitting at a window on the opposite side from where you are.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

From a game standpoint, it seems unfair for one figure to be able to attack the other but not vice versa.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Great question, because I played it that those outside could attack those inside, hand to hand.
That would change things a bit. The Sports Cars would have been both destroyed for sure and the F4 may have lasted a bit longer, depends on the damage spill over.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

That lack of engagement is meant to be read both ways. Figures inside the car are never engaged with figures outside the car, so they cannot attack with melee attacks in either direction.

Given that the car is abstracted as being "in motion" for the most part, I think that's a perfectly thematic way to do it.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

:up:

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Well fiddle sticks. I will re-test that soon. Hopefully I will play it right for the first time. :)

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

:lol: It's OK. As often as we've altered the rules, just getting them all straight is a challenge.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

So I can get them all straight, here's what I believe the vehicle rules are:

entering a vehicle - you only take LEAs from anyone outside the vehicle and you can freely enter a vehicle occupied by the enemy

control - you only control the vehicle if you have the only figure in the vehicle or your figure is in the driver space

attacking - figures inside the vehicle are engaged to each other, figures inside a vehicle with partial cover can make ranged attacks (and special powers) on figures outside and vice versa but they are never engaged

moving - vehicles do not make or take LEA's

exiting a vehicle - if figures inside are engaged, they do take LEAs and if you do not control the vehicle and the figure does not have Superstrength, it also takes an unblockable attack die against it.

destroyed - when the vehicle is destroyed, any excess wounds are applied to all figures on top of and occupying the vehicle, then those on top of the vehicle are placed where the vehicle was and then figures occupying are placed. If they can't be placed they are destroyed. (We should probably say more specifically how this is done. Like if the vehicle takes up 2 spaces and 3 figures are inside owned by 3 different players, who decides who is placed and who is destroyed?)

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

That all seems right, but I'll try to pull up the linked rules in a few bits here just to double check each aspect.

For the part you want to spell out more, I'd suggest players deciding in initiative order.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

I think the first part is not right. No LEAs when entering a VDO correct?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Nope. I see that is not right. You got it quozl.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Finally thoroughly checked this. quozl's analysis is all correct. I made some tweaks in the destruction section for clarification. Please feel free to check my work. :-)

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

We may want to have a broken down version like quozl posted for a reference card.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

I could see that. For now I just want to make sure we all agree upon and like the mechanics. How much more do you plan to do before calling the initial a wrap?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Not sure. That will be a game by game call. I would like to play at least once or twice the right way. :)

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Sounds good. Keep trucking! I'm champing at the bit to run them once they hit the playtesting phase. :-)

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Should be able to wrap them up this weekend. Summer finally decided to hit Michigan and I am not adapting to the heat wave. :)
Got the a/c going so hopefully it will be comfortable enough to motor some Sports Cars around the battlefield.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Sweet! Looking forward to it. :-)

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

VDOs do not give or take LEAs but can they be engaged?
When Frankenstein is adjacent to an opponent's VDO, can he use Creature Command?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Yes, otherwise you couldn't hit them with a Range 1 attack.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Right, good point. Thanks. :)

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Re-played the last match, correctly this time (hopefully) and it was super close with Team Sports Car losing by a razor thin margin.
Looking really good.

Next thing I want to try is jumping on top of a Car and attacking it. If you KO the Car you also KO one of the two passengers.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Is it clear whether the top of the car is a space that can be occupied?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

No, which is why I did not attempt it this last game. In the VDO rules it is mentioned but I assume that is to cover the possibility.
We probably should rule on that. For now I will play it as you cannot.
If you can stand on a VDO, are you engaged with it, can you attack it?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Sports Car x2(200), Mr. Fantastic(235), Sue(215), Lady Blackhawk(110), Iron Man: Hasbro(240) vs. Frank, DM, Wendigo & Skrull Infiltrator[1000]

R1: Sue and Reed hop in the Blue Car, Reed drives. DM moves. Lady B and Tony jump in the Red Car, Reed drives the Blue Car on to the road. Frank moves. Lady B H&R(9+2), wounds DM, throws in reverse while her and Tony shoot out the windows, Stark strikes for 3wounds. Frank charges, misses the Red Car(4/8shields), DM moves, Fire Breaths(3skulls) the Blue Car, {If I read this right if I attack the Blue Car, it will hit Sue and Reed and the adjacent Red Car but not the passengers}, 2wounds Blue Car, wounds Sue, misses Reed.

R2: Lady B H&R(20+2) wounds DM, misses, Reed wounds DM. Wendigo Leaps. Lady B H&R(5+2), misses DM, misses, Reed misses. Frank moves down, KOs the Blue Car(2/9shields, no spill over damage), Wendigo moves, misses the Red Car(3/8shields). Lady B H&R(9+2) wounds, KOs DM, misses Wendi, Stark 2wounds Frank, Reed misses Frank who KOs the Red Car(1/9shields, no spill over damage), Wendigo 2wounds Lady B.

R3: Frank misses Reed with 5 skulls, Wendigo misses. Stark hits Frank but he resists, Reed does the same. Frank misses Reed with 5 skulls, Wendigo misses. Stark, miss, LB miss, Reed miss. Frank rolls 5skulls for the third time in a row and manages to 2wound Reed, Wendi KOs Lady B, Leaps, misses Sue who flees, Reed miss.

R4: Frank misses, Wendi misses. Stark wounds Frank, Reed wounds Frank who misses, Wendi misses. Stark miss, Sue wounds Frank, Reed wounds Frank who KOs Reed, Wendi takes a swipe from Stark, wounds Sue.

R5: Tony KOs Frank, misses Wendi who wounds Sue. Tony 3wounds Wendi who KOs Sue[Skrull Infiltrator], heals, moves, 2wounds Tony who 3wounds Wendigo who KOs Tony.

Winner: Wendigo 6/7wounds & Skrull Infiltrator.

Of note two H&R hit from the +2 for Lady B. No spill over damage on either VDO KO.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

One thing that is a little weird. If an opponent's figure exits a VDO you are driving they take an unblockable attack die if they do not have SS but there is nothing against an opponent hopping into the passenger seat.
Not a big deal but if the idea is the VDO is still moving, then getting in would be tricky.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

That’s tricky. On one hand, you see people hopping on/in cars all the time, no problem, in these kinds of stories. Indy can do it. There’s a whole ep of YJ S3 that has Dick and Roy hopping all over a bunch of moving trucks. But it’s also hard to imagine Luthor or somebody of similar physical skill doing it and there’s no real way to distinguish between a Nightwing level of skill and a Lex level of skill.

I honestly interpreted the unblockable die as the struggle of escaping the car itself. The guy in charge can lock the door, making it harder for the opponent’s figure to escape. A SS guy can just punch the door down, but a non-SS guy might have to jump through the window or something like that, leading to injury.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

It may have to be on a case by case basis here.
You should be able to at least climb over/run across a VDO if you have the movement.
Is that allowed with the current rules?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Yes. On top of is adjacent, so you can melee attack.

You can walk over anything with height if you have the right move/height/climb yourself.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

I get that for like a ruin that does not take up a space, but does that apply here?
You are essentially entering the space the VDO is in. It is not just climbing over and dropping down on the other side, you are on top for part of the movement.

So if a figure is standing at the front bumper of a Sports Car, they can walk over it(two spaces) and end up at the rear bumper for 6 Move?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Good question. I guess it’s a figure, not an obstacle, under the rules. If you have disengage, can you climb over an enemy figure?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

I think it's an obstacle and a figure. My junkyard map was definitely designed with being able to climb on top of the parked cars.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

I was thinking about the climbing over another scenario as well Bats.
We could ask that one out in classic land. :)

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

May have found a worrisome combo. Sue and Atom in the Car cannot be targeted so you have to KO the Car first which is at 8 Defense. Then you still have to engage Sue to take her out which Reed can make quite difficult.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Is the car’s normal defense 6?

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Yeah, +2 from Sue.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

OK. Well if the car is feeling like a tank with Sue in it, we could always consider turning the defense down to 5 on it. It's a Sports car, after all.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

I am going to re-match that one and see if I can do better with a different strategy.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Fan Four can be very match up dependent as well, especially if their D20 is hot. People movers and auto-wounders are great against them. Teams that just rely on strong or multiple attacks are not.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Iron Man KOd Ms Marvel immediately and the team never recovered. Carol was their best chance to take out Sue. Going to hold her back a bit this time and try to set it up for her to fly in and cause some.damage.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

I don't see Ms. Marvel on what you posted. What army did you run in the test you're referring to? (Also, who's DM in your other test?).

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Dragon Man. The Creatures are my go to test army.

I have not posted the last test yet, I forgot my laptop yesterday. Maybe later today.
Just realized Shocker is a.pretty hard counter, so we will see how that goes.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Sports Car, Reed, Sue, Tony Hasbro, Iceman and Atom vs. Carol, Cap, Winter Soldier and Shocker.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Yeah, his Shockwave should be able to blow the car up (which is cool).

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Realized I never chimed in here after reading through some of this a while back (and subsequently catching up more). Figured I should chime in, given I was one of the first Allies giving some negative feedback.

I generally like this direction a lot better. Works away from Cars being a nice boon to squads, but otherwise a pain to keep on your team, to a generally more fun addition. I think the cover implementation is a nice medium to allow some powers to work in cards, as originally they felt overcosted, as the auto wound was typically not worth missing out on the other things the driver (in the case of heroes) could do otherwise.

Definitely looking forward to seeing this keep moving!

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

Thanks LV!
Last test went way better. Shocker saved the day by Knocking Back Reed to free up Carol to go after Sue in the Sports Car. F4 had some bad d20 rolls as well.

I think you are good if you want to start testing Bats. I am.going to get in a few more. I want to try some lower point games and some Car vs. Car matches.

Re: Draftable Vehicles - Waiting for new Initial Test
 

I’ll wait for you to post your results and we can propose a move to public testing. Staying formal here should help us stay focused.

Thanks for the feedback, LV!