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-   -   Diplomacy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53767)

Ranior March 26th, 2021 11:28 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Bah, I would not do what Germany did this game :P

I mean largely all the early chatter to me suggested that we were looking at an early England/France arrangement. France even went to BUR aggressively early.

If I'm Germany, that means I'm for sure letting Russia in to SWE and hoping he helps. I'm guessing Germany instead thought his best chance was to ally with England, and didn't want to be seen helping Russia out in the north to annoy England.


I am a bit sad we never really figured a way to work with each other in the north though. It just seemed like you and France had such an alliance though that my help mostly would have aided you two in getting to take over the whole board rather than me benefiting a ton....but it's not like I wound up in a great spot. I felt compelled to slow down England in the north to ensure the stalemate line could be established on our side, but that just led to Austria (and then Italy) deciding they could mostly remove me while still just holding the stalemate line.

Then again....I'm not sure where my winning line was, and making sure England/France didn't roll the board was a priority of mine that I did at least make happen even if it largely was at my expense.

kevindola March 26th, 2021 11:30 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Hey @quozl if you were France, I know we certainly had our disagreements in this game, but I just wanted to say how well you played in the Western seas against me in 1904 and 1905. You countered me quite nicely and I think I had an opportunity there to have made gains, but you outplayed me in the orders.

Dad_Scaper March 26th, 2021 03:32 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Well, congrats to all the survivors in the draw.

Diplomacy is the only game I know in which people disagree about what constitutes an acceptable strategy. Not just in terms of, "this might be an effective strategy for winning," but "this strategy to have this goal is illegitimate." Before we get (further) into EOGs, which I think are more important after a game like this than they are normally, I plead with all of you to get out of the unique, dark headspace that this game forces you into, and remember to breathe.

Different players have different attitudes about what's appropriate once the stalemate lines are joined on each side. I would expect a new player, more than most, might be tempted to play around with possibilities after more experienced players might look at the position and think that the game is over.

If you want to write an End of Game statement, I encourage you to do so here. But let's try to lay down our arms first, so to speak. ;)

Kinseth March 26th, 2021 08:34 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranior (Post 2456026)
Bah, I would not do what Germany did this game :P

I mean largely all the early chatter to me suggested that we were looking at an early England/France arrangement. France even went to BUR aggressively early.

If I'm Germany, that means I'm for sure letting Russia in to SWE and hoping he helps. I'm guessing Germany instead thought his best chance was to ally with England, and didn't want to be seen helping Russia out in the north to annoy England.


I am a bit sad we never really figured a way to work with each other in the north though. It just seemed like you and France had such an alliance though that my help mostly would have aided you two in getting to take over the whole board rather than me benefiting a ton....but it's not like I wound up in a great spot. I felt compelled to slow down England in the north to ensure the stalemate line could be established on our side, but that just led to Austria (and then Italy) deciding they could mostly remove me while still just holding the stalemate line.

Then again....I'm not sure where my winning line was, and making sure England/France didn't roll the board was a priority of mine that I did at least make happen even if it largely was at my expense.

I was actually going to turn on France when Germany built how I asked him to, but then he never responded that season to my messages. France had no fleets and was ripe for the picking, but when Germany didn't respond *Shrug*.

Dragon Ruler March 26th, 2021 09:50 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I had a blast playing. Thanks to DS for running and to thanks to all who participated.
My buddy @Huskyfan was Turkey. I'll try to get him to chime in to explain the thinking on his moves (I think it comes down to a dislike of Russia and a distrust of Italy after Italy stabbed me first turn and I screamed bloody murder about it.)
I'll post more in the next couple of days. In the meantime, who's ready to get another game going? I'm hoping that the dude formerly known as OrcElfArmyOne who now goes by @OEAO (dude needs to buy a consonant) will join us, as well as @Huskyfan and perhaps my son-in-law (three guys who would all like to stick a knife in me.)

kevindola March 26th, 2021 10:22 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
@Huskyfan My biggest question is what happened truly in the fall of 1901? We had an agreement that I would attack Austria (which I did with a stab), and in exchange he would attack Austria in the fall of 1901 (which can be seen by my voided order supporting him into Serbia)

Was it as Dragon says that you were put off by the nature of my attack upon Austria or was there some other reason you backed out?

That 'soft stab' by Turkey (combined with the horrendous 1901 for Russia) completely shifted my main trajectory in this game. I am very thankful that Austria was able to let my stab be water under the bridge long term. I think we accomplished quite a bit together in the game, but for the remainder of the game I couldn't quite trust Turkey as an ally (ironic I suppose)

Dragon Ruler March 27th, 2021 05:03 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
[quote=kevindola;2456124 I am very thankful that Austria was able to let my stab be water under the bridge long term. [/quote]

I was shocked at the stab. My first game, and it was welcome to Diplomacy, here's a whack upside the head with a 2 by 4. I was plotting my revenge, but knew that if I struck immediately, I would be out of the game quickly. So I bided my time.
I thought long and hard in Fall 03 about stabbing him then (I had posted orders) and at the last minute changed my mind. It was clear to me that Italy was an excellent player, and that by just reading his messages explaining all of our choices for attacks and what other countries might do, I would be receiving the equivalent of a free college education in Diplomacy strategy and tactics. To be honest, many of his messages made my head hurt as I tried to understand all the various calculations, permutations and computations. I would then spend time composing press back to make it sound like I knew what the heck he was talking about while I tried to make it sound like I was not a new player that he could take advantage of (he had opportunities along the way to stab me, but I guess he figured the England France juggernaut would roll him quickly if he turned on me.)
I was also impressed by his messages to me after the stab. He explained why he did it, and attempted to keep the door open for future cooperation (of course he was trying to convince Turkey to carve me up at the same time, but the tone of his messages was very diplomatic.)
So, many thanks to @kevindola for the excellent education.

Kinseth March 27th, 2021 10:57 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Killing you with Kindness.

quozl March 27th, 2021 10:59 AM

Re: Diplomacy
 
First of all, thank you to D_S for running the game and to everyone who played.

That said, I am beyond frustrated with this game. I was France.

Kinseth March 27th, 2021 02:12 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
I do find it funny that @Dragon Ruler liked how nice @kevindola was after the stab. Sorry for the knife in your back, but just know I used my best knife available and will have a holiday in your honor!

Dragon Ruler March 27th, 2021 07:35 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinseth (Post 2456220)
I do find it funny that @Dragon Ruler liked how nice @kevindola was after the stab. Sorry for the knife in your back, but just know I used my best knife available and will have a holiday in your honor!

Not nice, but diplomatic. I was ranting and raving, threatening him and his family and his dogs (well, maybe not his dogs) with all kinds of mean, nasty ugly revenge, and he just calmly explains what he did and why. I thought, wow that was really well done. I would have told me where to go and how to get there after being threatened like that, and he's trying to get me to work with him. It was quite impressive.
I didn't believe him (except for the part about needing Greece which he had tried to get me to allow him to take before he stabbed me) but wow, what a smooth performance. That was when I realized that a) I had a lot more to learn about how to play this game than I thought, and b) I needed to keep this guy talking, because I was going to learn a lot from him if I didn't die too soon.

kevindola March 30th, 2021 03:54 PM

Re: Diplomacy
 
If it had been my dogs then I would have seen Austria burn to the ground!


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