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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

McHotcakes June 22nd, 2015 12:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2029224)
OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 2+Special.
When attacking with Obsidian Crush Special AttackAlways add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. When attacking destructible objects andor figures with a Defense value of 7 or higher, add one additional automatic skull to whatever is rolled.

Just trying to make it sound more official.

Quote:

GOLDEN FLEECE
(RANGED COUNTER)
GODLY ARTIFACT
PERMANENT GLYPH
When rolling defense dice against an attack from a nonadjacent attacking figure, this figure may use Golden Fleece to count all excess shields as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.
I think saying the attacking figure is redundant.

TREX June 22nd, 2015 03:05 PM

Re: Looks Good
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dysole (Post 2029225)
I'd call the Fleece (RANGED COUNTERSTRIKE) but otherwise they look good to me.

~Dysole, wondering if we were doing another glyph

I would like to get at least 5, I'm not too greedy beyond that. I just want to be able to Max Kratos out at 5 if it is possible for him to do so.
Possible candidates:
Wings of Icarus
Claws of Hades-Summons characters from hades to help him in battle.( we could work something in with undead figures?)
Blade of Olympus
Head of Helios
Nemesis Whip

My outline idea for the Nemesis whip.
Quote:

Nemesis Whip-Some shock power that knocks small or medium figures back a space that kratos does not destroy, with an added damage to soulborg figures.

Dysole June 22nd, 2015 04:13 PM

Some Observations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes (Post 2029282)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2029224)
OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 2+Special.
When attacking with Obsidian Crush Special AttackAlways add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. When attacking destructible objects andor figures with a Defense value of 7 or higher, add one additional automatic skull to whatever is rolled.

Just trying to make it sound more official.

Quote:

GOLDEN FLEECE
(RANGED COUNTER)
GODLY ARTIFACT
PERMANENT GLYPH
When rolling defense dice against an attack from a nonadjacent attacking figure, this figure may use Golden Fleece to count all excess shields as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.
I think saying the attacking figure is redundant.

The only mention of a figure's Defense is Siege which uses the phrase "Defense Value". It might also be better phrased as "When attacking... this figure always adds..." as I believe that's what Sharwin says.

Also, counterstrike has attacking figure if I recall correctly.

~Dysole, noticing Heroscape is very weird on its power naming consistency

Confred June 23rd, 2015 12:46 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@McHotcakes you struck through some official phrasing, "Always" and "value" and "attacking figure" among them. Let's see if we can make adjustments without breaking moulds...
Quote:

OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK (A)
Range 1. Attack 2+Special.
This figure always adds one automatic skull to whatever it rolls for Obsidian Crush Special Attack. When attacking destructible objects and figures with Defense value 7 or higher, add an additional automatic skull to whatever it rolls.
The small adjustment was actually difficult to get right as I poured over official cards and found no perfect fit. Special attacks have lean wording. I'm not 100% if it's "rolled with" or "rolled for". " With " is commonly used for other things associated with special attacks specifically named. "For" sounds better imo.
Quote:

OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK (B)
Range 1. Attack 2+Special.
This figure always adds one automatic skull to whatever it rolls for Obsidian Crush Special Attack. Add an additional skull if this figure is attacking destructible objects or figures with Defense value 7 or higher.
Tightened version
Quote:

OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK (C)
Range 1. Attack 3+Special.
If this figure rolls at least one skull with Obsidian Crush Special Attack, add one automatic skull to whatever it rolls. Add an additional skull if the defending figure has Defense value 7 or higher or is a destructible object.
Feels somewhat like backpedaling, but always adding the skull may give the gloves the feel of enhanced accuracy vs enhanced strength. Requiring at least one skull means the accuracy is there already and if it lands, it lands harder. This makes the power weaker overall, pushing the base roll up from 2 attack dice to 3, should we go this way.

As far as the GOLDEN FLEECE goes, the "uncorrected" version is a direct rip from Gurei Oni. We could specify both "normal or special attacks" though

Dysole June 23rd, 2015 12:51 AM

Huh
 
While grammatically correct and probably with no good precedent that second sentence feels weird to me. It might be due to the passive voice.

~Dysole, who really likes requiring a skull

Confred June 23rd, 2015 12:55 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@Dysole (or any of you) how would you adjust (C)?

~Phone at 5% battery

Dysole June 23rd, 2015 01:00 AM

Hmm
 
Initial thought is something like "If this figure attacks... add one additional automatic skull to whatever is rolled". I think that was our original wording and it is also I believe the wording on Sharwin. Although looking at how Shiori does her special attack might be better since it actually separates out the two conditions. I'm not in a good spot to do that right now or I would.

~Dysole, informationally

Confred June 23rd, 2015 01:22 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Looking at Shiori,
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1
If this figure is attacking a destructible object or figure with Defense value 7 or higher, roll 2 additional attack dice for Obsidian Crush Special Attack. If this figure rolls at least one skull for Obsidian Crush Special Attack, always add an automatic skull to whatever is rolled.

Can dodge the issue a little.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2
If this figure is attacking a destructible object or figure with Defense value 7 or higher and rolls at least one skull, add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If this figure rolls at least one skull for Obsidian Crush Special Attack, always add an additional automatic skull to whatever is rolled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3
If this figure rolls at least one skull for Obsidian Crush Special Attack, add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If this figure is attacking a destructible object or figure with Defense value 7 or higher and rolls at least one skull, add 1 additional automatic skull to whatever is rolled.


TREX June 24th, 2015 11:37 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I got a few play tests in with Kratos yesterday with two of my brothers that came out to my place. Both games were free for all mode on a custom 3 way symmetrical map.
My army
Kratos
Marcus Decimus Gallus
Roman Legos x2
500
Bro 1
Mittens
Azurite Warlord
Armoc Vipers x3
venoc vipers x1
500
Bro 2
Harry Potter 160
Eltahale 150 I think
Isamu
Frost Giant
Arkmer
500
I was rather disappointed at first, Kratos went head to head with harry potter and got killed. After about 5 rounds I got him back, Got him killed again doing minimal damage. When almost all my other forces were gone. Got him back and made him shine for the win.
I found it rather hard to get to attack more than 2 times each turn. I was rolling poorly. I made him throw the beatdown when I took high ground. Getting the glyphs was actually quite hard to do. The most I could keep on the card were 2. Getting a chance to bring him back was the selling point of keeping him at 300.
The second game was a 300 point game where I used just kratos. He kind of dwindled and didn't quite shine only getting to try to come back one time. Failing and dying rather early in the game and never came back.
The feedback on the glyphs. Bow of Apollo was cool, I loved the mechanic. Boots of Hermes. I would like to change Disengage to Phantom walk, To get the thematic of Kratos speeding through figures instead of going around them. I didn't get the cestus anyways. I think 300 points should stay for now. I'll pt more later.
EDIT: It was the first time we used the HOF Harry Potter figure. He was pretty intense. The sword of griffindor was used a bit. I was also somewhat confused about his ability to shorten someone's range to 1. Does that mean he gets to shorten kratos reach to one or just his range value on a normal attack. If it is more than a range one on the figures normal attack value it should probably be specified. My brothers and myself all had a good time seeing kratos play. When he got to really swinging his blades of exile he could do some damage. He really has to work to earn his glyphs, compared to other HOF figures that start with a handful of glyphs. I don't see him earning more than five in a game. Unless your dice rolling hand is on fire.

Confred June 24th, 2015 03:22 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@TREX excellent report.
Number of Attacks) Not being lucky with number of attacks was one of the reasons why I thought it was moot to limit him to 4 attacks. Because it's not easy to do, lucking out on a high combo might be really fun.
Range) I haven't looked at Harry Potter's card but if he just reduces Range values to 1, Blades Of Exile still adds the 2 and still attacks at Range 3.
Boots) I'm absolutely fine with him having Phantom Walk. In the original discussion I was good for it, just needed confirmation before writing it out that way. Never got it so the version we see is from that :P. In the source, the Boots gives a charge through figures power, moving through figures could be an easy translation. How was the 3 move versus 2 move?
Cestus) I think a fun part of Kratos' design is his upgrade aspect. Cestus is perhaps less sexy of an option than other Glyphs, but it more consistently gives skulls which ultimately leads to more death, destruction, and Glyphs. The attack upgrade that helps you get those skulls. The bow is the upgrade that helps your range. The boots is to help your move. The fleece is to discourage ranged to attack you. Because the Cestus helps you get the skulls, I actually think it might be one of the first you get. Thinking more on this, the more I like Phantom Walk on Boots, to make them more viable of a choice and not last pick.
Thinking even more on this reminded me of why I wanted Claws to improve Climb, because everything else is enhanced, why not that? But I have a different idea for Claws now...

Looking at the Bow, it gets bonus off of rolling skulls. I would like to end our pondering of the Cestus also triggering off of skulls, to further differentiate it from the Bow, returning it to the always auto-skull + more auto-skulls.
Quote:

Originally Posted by (A)
OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 2 Special.
Always add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled for Obsidian Crush Special Attack. If this figure is attacking a destructible object or figure with Defense value 7 or higher, always add 1 additional skull to whatever is rolled.

Note: This won't work if we remove the 4 attack limit because it would give unlimited attacks against Defense 7 figures/objects
Quote:

Originally Posted by (B)
OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 2 Special.
If this figure is attacking a destructible object or figure with Defense value 7 or higher with Obsidian Crush Special Attack, always add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If this figure rolls at least 1 skull with Obsidian Crush Special Attack, always add 1 additional automatic skull to whatever is rolled for Obsidian Crush Special Attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by (C)
OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 2 Special.
Always add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled for Obsidian Crush Special Attack. If this figure is attacking a destructible object or figure with Defense value 7 or higher and rolls at least one skull, add 1 additional automatic skull to whatever is rolled for Obsidian Crush Special Attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by (D)
OBSIDIAN CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 2 Special.
Always add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled for Obsidian Crush Special Attack. If this figure is attacking a destructible object or figure with Defense value 7 or higher, count all skulls rolled for Obsidian Crush Special Attack twice.

Hearing your report makes me excited to run a game myself.
Quote:

BOOTS OF HERMES
(+3 MOVE, PHANTOM WALK)
GODLY ARTIFACT
PERMANENT TREASURE GLYPH
Before moving, this figure may use Boots Of Hermes to add 3 to its Move value and to move through all figures and never be attacked for leaving an engagement this turn.

GODLY ARTIFACT
After using any special power on this card, if this figure is not a God or Demigod, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, this figure receives 1 wound. If ever this figure is destroyed, place one at a time all Godly Artifacts on this figure's Army Card power-side up on spaces this figure previously occupied or on empty spaces adjacent to spaces this figure previously occupied. Godly Artifacts are considered to be Ancient Artifacts in every other way.


Dysole June 24th, 2015 03:48 PM

FYI
 
Looking at it Expelliarmus has a typo and is worded kind of poorly. That said, D does not have Deadly Strike/Shot language. Regardless of what we do it needs to be Attack 2+Special a la elf wizards. Does the wording on Sharwin Wildborn (the only figure I know of to add auto skulls) have always. I think Sharwin is the template we need to work off of to build the Cestus.

~Dysole, with more later

Taeblewalker June 24th, 2015 05:30 PM

Re: FYI
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dysole (Post 2029733)
Looking at it Expelliarmus has a typo and is worded kind of poorly. That said, D does not have Deadly Strike/Shot language. Regardless of what we do it needs to be Attack 2+Special a la elf wizards. Does the wording on Sharwin Wildborn (the only figure I know of to add auto skulls) have always. I think Sharwin is the template we need to work off of to build the Cestus.

~Dysole, with more later

From Shocking Grasp:

When rolling attack dice for a normal attack, Sharwin Wildborn always adds one automatic skull to whatever is rolled.


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