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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

TREX May 28th, 2015 02:21 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@Confred , the only problem with him being 500, and a one man army is, when he dies, you lose the game. You have no other figures, so you have no other turns. I'm ok with lowering his stats a little to compensate for the godly items he is awarded. Also with his base stats, he is not worth anything close to 500 points. Multiple attacks of 4 is fine, The fen hydra gets 4 attacks of 4 for 120 pts. He is not even guaranteed 4 attacks, he has to roll at least 2 skulls to get to attack again. I would prefer his coming back to be harder to do, with him a little stronger. He should only come back a time or maybe 2 in one game, that stays pretty close with theme, and I think it is usable. As far as species go, He is a Demi God. In the story he is the half brother of Hercules and Zeus's illegitimate son. Spartan is not a species, it is a type of Human warrior. As far as the type of Treasure glyph and what we call it, I don't have a preference to whether it is an ancient artifact or godly glyph. I just thought it would be thematic for heroes that are not godly or demi godly to not wield these powers equally to Kratos. Hence the roll after use. Fully upgraded Kratos would be a force to be reckoned with, but as it stands, he has to earn all of the glyphs. Which dose not guarantee that he even gets very many of them. He is limited by the amount of heroes your enemy picks. The average army consist of some heroes and some squads. Say the enemy only has three heroes. At most you only get three glyphs.

Tornado May 28th, 2015 03:26 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Great point. You can really nerf him by drafting only squads.
If you did want him to be a one man army you could add a clause that the game does not end after his first destruction if he is the only army card drafted to your army.

I really like how this design is pushing the envelope. You have a great team here.

Confred May 28th, 2015 03:37 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TREX (Post 2024044)
@Confred, the only problem with him being 500, and a one man army is, when he dies, you lose the game. You have no other figures, so you have no other turns. I'm ok with lowering his stats a little to compensate for the godly items he is awarded. Also with his base stats, he is not worth anything close to 500 points. Multiple attacks of 4 is fine, The fen hydra gets 4 attacks of 4 for 120 pts. He is not even guaranteed 4 attacks, he has to roll at least 2 skulls to get to attack again. I would prefer his coming back to be harder to do, with him a little stronger. He should only come back a time or maybe 2 in one game, that stays pretty close with theme, and I think it is usable. As far as species go, He is a Demi God. In the story he is the half brother of Hercules and Zeus's illegitimate son. Spartan is not a species, it is a type of Human warrior. As far as the type of Treasure glyph and what we call it, I don't have a preference to whether it is an ancient artifact or godly glyph. I just thought it would be thematic for heroes that are not godly or demi godly to not wield these powers equally to Kratos. Hence the roll after use. Fully upgraded Kratos would be a force to be reckoned with, but as it stands, he has to earn all of the glyphs. Which dose not guarantee that he even gets very many of them. He is limited by the amount of heroes your enemy picks. The average army consist of some heroes and some squads. Say the enemy only has three heroes. At most you only get three glyphs.

1) Well said, and indeed I forgot about Hercules being the half brother. Demigod is good. I was thinking Spartan as a species to imply Spartans were indeed something greater, kind of like Asgardian, Olympian, or Amazon. but again, Demigod is cool beans.


2) And for some reason I was thinking the game ended at the end of the round, not immediately, so say he was destroyed on turn 1, he would have 2 tries to climb out before the game ended.
CLIMB FROM TARTARUS
If all your figures are destroyed, you lose the game at the end of the round instead of immediately if at the end of the round all your figures are destroyed. At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, immediately place Kratos on the lowest level space on the edge of the battlefield and remove all wound markers from this card.


3) Treasure Glyphs officially exist and Ancient Artifacts officially exist. To create Godly Artifacts, we would have to make special rules for that, kind of like official scape made rules for Uncommon figures.
GODLY ARTIFACTS
Godly Artifacts are like Ancient Artifacts where you may only have 1 with the same name per army. Unlike Ancient Artifacts, when a figure that is not a God or Demigod (or New God or Deity) picks up or starts a turn with a Godly Artifact, they must roll the 20-sided die. If they roll a 1-4 they are immediately destroyed.


4) I'm fine with him not being 500 Points. It was a long shot eyebrow raising idea anyway.


5) After going through all of God Of War III's loot according to its Wikia,
I) Boots of Hermes: +Move value, flying, disengage
II) Golden Fleece: Evil Eye Defense
III) Nemean Cestus: Harder attack that hits even harder against destructible objects and high defense figures.
IV) Bow of Apollo: Ranged attack. Deals fire damage, If rolled at least 1 skull, add 1 skull to whatever is rolled - this will combo with blade of exile to get those 2 skulls.
V) Nemesis Whip: Guaranteed multiple attacks: Kind of odd man out, but the wikia says that this weapon shocks enemies (roll 1 fewer defense die), has knockback (immediately move 1 space away), has shorter range than the blades of exile (range 3), and uses multiple weak attacks instead of harder hitting Blade Of Exile. So I imagine using this if he swarmed by squad figures, he would be guaranteed multiple attacks to attack each of them and make a little breathing room for himself.
VI) Head Of Helios: Blind: Permanent - Enemy figures within 5 clear sight spaces of this figure never roll additional attack or defense dice while on shadow spaces; Temporary - Crippling Gaze 9
VII) Claws Of Hades: Temporary - Permanently gain control of a destroyed Unique Hero and its Army Card. Place it adjacent to this figure and remove all wounds from its Army Card.
VIII) Blade Of Olympus: Finisher: "Blade wielded by Zeus himself. Kratos may use it only in Rage Mode; when he does, he one-shots even the largest foes, draining their energy and giving it to Kratos."
PERMANENT GLYPH
Special Attack - Range 1. Attack 8.
This special attack can only be used if a total of 6 or more skulls have been rolled this turn by figures you control. If this special attack destroys a figure, remove 1 wound marker from this figure's Army Card. - Because it's so limited, it'll be chosen near the end of Glyph gaining, which makes sense since it is final boss loot. and 8 dice will surely grant at least 2 skulls. I imagine attacking several times with other weapons and finishing with the sword.


That's 8, not 5. There are definitely some that can be cut and I didn't even bother converting/creating Glyphs from the game items that he only used in the puzzle portions such as water breathing and ghost repellant.

TREX May 28th, 2015 07:24 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I really like how we had the Tartarus climb worded, I also liked @Tornado s idea with the clause. I added it in the updated card in bold. I would like to keep Kratos stats where @JC McMinis proposed with the exception of the attack. I dropped it to 4, because on height it is still a five, and the chances of getting at least 2 skulls is still somewhat high. With the idea of one glyph per hero as we have it. This does not start Kratos out with any extra crazy abilities, he has to earn them. That should keep his points down some. Also having an opponent with a bunch of squads with little to no heroes keeps Kratos from getting his extras. He could still take them with his normal attacks. As far as heroes go, I keep comparing him to Fen Hydra's. Should we add uncommon heroes in the bonus. (at my house we consider Uncommons the same as unique when determining bonuses from other figures.) For instance, Kratos kills a fen hydra, he then gets nothing.(hydra isn't unique.) Also, when figuring up point value. Can Kratos kill two Fen Hydras from the start. If the answer is no, should he be more than 240-250 points? 2x Fen Hydras=240. This is also why I wanted to keep his stats a little higher, with the chance of coming back a little harder. With this all said, I also added my idea for Bow of Apollo into the current card version. Current Kratos Card

Dysole May 28th, 2015 07:27 PM

Rules
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TREX (Post 2024121)
Should we add uncommon heroes in the bonus. (at my house we consider Uncommons the same as unique when determining bonuses from other figures.)

The only difference between Uncommon Heroes and Unique Heroes is that you can have more than one Uncommon Hero. For all other purposes, Uncommon Heroes are considered to be Unique Heroes.

~Dysole, noting this is in the Battle for the Underdark rulebook

Dysole May 28th, 2015 07:30 PM

Another Thing
 
Glyph wording is inconsistent with released glyphs. I'll correct when I get home.

~Dysole, informationally

Taeblewalker May 28th, 2015 08:26 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I like the somewhat lower stats, but probably a defense of 4 instead of 3. And I think 20 is too high for Climb From Tartarus. 18 seems good to me.

TREX May 28th, 2015 10:09 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
well said @Taeblewalker , I adjusted it to a 18, but in the clause added a +2 instead of a +3. Also adjusted the defense to 4, it is still enough to deflect quite a few lower attacks without being too much. @Dysole , better wording is always welcome.:)

Confred May 28th, 2015 10:32 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
"Battlefield" was first introduced with Airborne Elite and I'm not sure if the term has been updated or not with more recent releases.

Dysole May 28th, 2015 11:21 PM

Glyphium
 
Quote:

NEMEAN CESTUS
Godly Artifact
(Nemean Cestus Special Attack)
PERMANENT GLYPH

This figure gains the following special power.

Nemean Cestus Special Attack
Range 1. Attack 5+Special.

When attacking destructible objects and figures with a Defense value of 7 or higher, add 3 attack dice to this figure’s roll. After rolling attack dice for Nemean Cestus Special Attackusing this glyph,this figurethe figure equipped with this glyph is not a God or Demi-God, roll the 20 sided die. On a roll of 5 or lower, this figurethe figure equipped with this glyph takes a wound.
Quote:

BOOTS OF HERMES
Godly Artifact
(Move+2 and Disengage)
PERMANENT GLYPH
This figure adds 2 to its movement and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. After using this glyph, if this figurethe figure equipped with this glyph is not a God or Demi-God, roll the 20 sided die. On a roll of 5 or lower, this figurethe figure equipped with this glyph takes a wound.
Quote:

BOW OF APOLLO
Godly Artifact
(Bow of Apollo Special Attack)
PERMANENT GLYPH

This figure gains the following ability

Bow of Apollo Special Attack
Range 9. Attack 4

If this figure inflicts at least 1 wound with Bow of Apollo Special Attack,If a figure is wounded with Bow of Apollo, roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, add 1 additional wound marker to the defending figure's Army Card, and roll again.the defending figure receives one additional wound. You may continue rolling the 20 sided die until you do not roll a 16 or higher. Figures with the Lava Resistant ability are not affected by Bow of Apollo Special Attack. After attacking with Bow of Apollo Special Attackusing this glyph, if this figurethe figure equipped with this glyph is not a God or Demi-God, roll the 20 sided die. On a roll of 5 or lower, this figurethe figure equipped with this glyph takes a wound.
Also, worth noting that a 18+ gives a 76.8% chance of revival after 3 rounds assuming no bonding squads or frenzies or overextends or anything else that grants extra turns. A 20+ gives a 37% chance of revival in the same time span. Are we okay with that?

~Dysole, checking up what constitutes "using a glyph" in respect to Boots of Hermes

Dysole May 29th, 2015 12:33 AM

Revision
 
After consulting with someone about using, here is my new proposal for the Boots of Hermes.

Quote:

BOOTS OF HERMES
Godly Artifact
(Move+2 and Disengage)
PERMANENT GLYPH

If you choose to use the Boots this turn, this figure adds 2 to its movement and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. After using this glyph, if this figure is not a God or Demi-God, roll the 20 sided die. On a roll of 5 or lower, this figure takes a wound.

~Dysole, updatingly

Confred May 29th, 2015 12:44 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I don't think the drawback for Godly items should happen when they're used, but when they're picked up or started a turn with. I imagine the unworthy bring stricken with lightning as soon as they attempt such an affront to the gods.
And I think Boots Of Hermes should give +3 to feel more godly.

Edit: But if we do want it on use, I like Dysole's wording.


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