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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

tcglkn November 3rd, 2011 03:12 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Cards look great mac! Thanks for hearing me out.

mac122 November 3rd, 2011 04:12 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Switching over was somewhere on my "to do" list. Thanks for helping me to move it to the top.

mac122 November 3rd, 2011 09:14 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Here's an updated draft of Doc. Made the changes to Bronze Whirlwind and bumped up the d20 roll for By Their Own Device.

Quote:

DOC SAVAGE
Literature
Jandar

Human
Unique Hero
Adventurer
Dauntless
Medium 6

Life 5
Move 6
Range 5
Attack 3
Defense 3

Points ???

ONE STEP AHEAD
If there are at least 2 Order Markers on this card, you may add 2 to your roll each time you roll the 20-sided die.

BRONZE WHIRLWIND
When Doc Savage attacks, he may attack up to 2 additional times. Doc Savage may not attack the same figure more than once per turn. When Doc Savage attacks an adjacent figure, add 2 dice to his attack.

BRONZE GHOST
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack, 1 shield will block all damage. Doc Savage can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

BY THEIR OWN DEVICE
Whenever Doc Savage or any friendly figure adjacent to Doc Savage would receive wounds from an opponent's special attack or special ability, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, ignore any wounds. If you roll a 20, the opponent's figure receives those wounds instead.
Assuming that One Step Ahead will most likely be in play as long as Doc is, effectively a roll of 11 or higher will block any wounds from an opponent's special. That's a 50-50 chance. Keeping in mind that it does not affect auto-kills, mind control, or any special abilities that modify a normal attack, IMO those are reasonable odds. The real problem I see with BTOD is that, assuming that OSA will be in effect, effectively a roll of 18 or higher damages the attacker (which wasn't the intent). We could add a clause that prohibits adjusting the d20 roll for BTOD, something like this:
Quote:

BY THEIR OWN DEVICE
Whenever Doc Savage or any friendly figure adjacent to Doc Savage would receive wounds from an opponent's special attack or special ability, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore any wounds. If you roll a 20, the opponent's figure receives those wounds instead. This roll may not be affected by Doc Savage's One Step Ahead.
Keeps the same odds of avoiding the wounds, but makes you roll a 20 to return the damage.

Another possibility would be to drop BTOD for a strictly protective ability like this:
Quote:

BRONZE PROTECTOR
When Doc Savage or any friendly figures adjacent to Doc Savage would recieve wounds or be destroyed by an opponent's special attack or special ability, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, any wounds are ignored and Doc Savage and any friendly figures adjacent to Doc Savage are safe for the remainder of this turn.
This eliminates the return damage in exchange for an enhancement to Doc's protective umbrella, which would still be very thematic.

machinekng November 3rd, 2011 09:31 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Technically, By Their Own Device doesn't need that clause, as the rebound only activates if you roll a 20, exactly.A 21 or a 22 won't cut it. This, of course, could be fixed with the clause '20 or higher.'

EDIT: Missed the 'may' in One Step Ahead, but bringing up another technicality, the ability works when you roll the die, so it must be declared as/before you roll, not after. Just another little thing, which you could change by adding to the result, rather than the roll.

mac122 November 4th, 2011 03:16 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1508820)
Technically, By Their Own Device doesn't need that clause, as the rebound only activates if you roll a 20, exactly.A 21 or a 22 won't cut it. This, of course, could be fixed with the clause '20 or higher.'

EDIT: Missed the 'may' in One Step Ahead, but bringing up another technicality, the ability works when you roll the die, so it must be declared as/before you roll, not after. Just another little thing, which you could change by adding to the result, rather than the roll.

I'm not following you, likely due to the relative density of my head. Can you give me an example of how adding to the result is different than adding to the roll? They would seem to be the same thing, to me.

Any other thoughts on Doc? I'd really like to keep the "backfire" mechanic of By Their Own Device, but not with a 15% chance of success. IMO, the odds of avoiding wounds should stay at 50-50, but sending the wounds back to the aggressor should be a 1 in 20 chance.

machinekng November 4th, 2011 08:03 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1509256)
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1508820)
Technically, By Their Own Device doesn't need that clause, as the rebound only activates if you roll a 20, exactly.A 21 or a 22 won't cut it. This, of course, could be fixed with the clause '20 or higher.'

EDIT: Missed the 'may' in One Step Ahead, but bringing up another technicality, the ability works when you roll the die, so it must be declared as/before you roll, not after. Just another little thing, which you could change by adding to the result, rather than the roll.

I'm not following you, likely due to the relative density of my head. Can you give me an example of how adding to the result is different than adding to the roll? They would seem to be the same thing, to me.

Any other thoughts on Doc? I'd really like to keep the "backfire" mechanic of By Their Own Device, but not with a 15% chance of success. IMO, the odds of avoiding wounds should stay at 50-50, but sending the wounds back to the aggressor should be a 1 in 20 chance.

I'm not sure this is correct, I may just be full of hot air, but if you add it to the roll, it seems that you are not allowed to add it after you roll, while adding to the results would be adding to the roll after the results has been revealed.

mac122 November 7th, 2011 06:52 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Anyone else have any thoughts on Doc in general or the d20 issue in particular?

JC McMinis November 7th, 2011 09:32 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I see no issued with Doc. And BtoD specifically says if you roll a 20..To me that means you actually have to roll the 20 for it to work. Kind of like a vorpal sword in D&D you had to roll a 20 for it to work. It did not matter if you rolled a 17 and got +3 to hit do to strength. Same applies here imho.

mac122 November 7th, 2011 10:17 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmcminis (Post 1510615)
I see no issued with Doc. And BtoD specifically says if you roll a 20..To me that means you actually have to roll the 20 for it to work. Kind of like a vorpal sword in D&D you had to roll a 20 for it to work. It did not matter if you rolled a 17 and got +3 to hit do to strength. Same applies here imho.

OK, I guess. What rolls would One Step Ahead modify then? Would it modify the "if you roll 13 or higher"? If so, why would it modify an 11 to a 13 but not an 18 to a 20? If not, then BTOD needs to change to "11 or higher".

SirGalahad November 8th, 2011 01:29 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
All d20 modifiers occur after the roll. You don't declare them in advance. And as far 'exactly' 20 goes, it was FAQ'd long ago that rolls greater than 20 count as 20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advanced FAQ
Frequently Used Special Powers
20-Sided Die Powers
Some powers (in relation to rolling the 20-sided die) say "20 or higher" some just say "20". If I roll higher than a 20 (because of other powers/glyphs) on the powers that list 20 as a max, what happens?
For any 20-sided die roll (except for initiative), any number above 20 counts the same as a 20.


mac122 November 8th, 2011 01:48 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Then my question is, would One Step Ahead modify a d20 roll of 18 (or 19 for that matter) to a 20 and cause By Their Own Device to wound the attacking figure? By my understanding, it would. You roll then apply any modifiers to get the result of your roll. An 11 turns into a 13, a 15 turns into a 17, and an 18 turns into a 20.

SirGalahad November 8th, 2011 01:51 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
As the powers are currently worded, yes it would.


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