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-   -   The Pre-SoV Workshop (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47761)

greygnarl February 18th, 2013 04:31 PM

The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
This thread is not affiliated with the SoV and does not guarantee any custom success in passing the SoV.

Hello all, the goal of this thread is to get people a chance to have their customs examined before they are submitted to the SoV. I know that at least 4 of the judges monitor this thread, so it's a great way to get some feedback.

Just make a post with your card/stat block and see what people say.

greygnarl February 18th, 2013 04:32 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
[reserved]

superfrog February 18th, 2013 04:35 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
I'd put the same non-affiliation caveats in this thread as you did in the other one.

Dad_Scaper February 19th, 2013 12:17 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
I've encouraged threads like this in the past. I think it's an excellent idea and I encourage custom makers to use it. I'll gladly offer my :2cents: here and there, when I have the time.

IshMEL February 19th, 2013 09:55 AM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Looking forward to this! Maybe you can outline how you see this group in relation to the 3FG, the CHCG24, and your new playtesting exchange group. For a beginner, having a "road map" would be helpful in thinking about where to go for advice.

greygnarl February 19th, 2013 01:07 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IshMEL (Post 1766831)
Looking forward to this! Maybe you can outline how you see this group in relation to the 3FG, the CHCG24, and your new playtesting exchange group. For a beginner, having a "road map" would be helpful in thinking about where to go for advice.

Cool. I'll talk about it with capsocrates first though, since his vision is what helps to shape this.

greygnarl February 19th, 2013 01:31 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
In other news, here's my attempt at the Green Wyrmling. capsocrates was concerned that it was too anti-hero, but heroes rarely have to waorry about Counter Strike since it deals only 1 wound and they can usually use a Special, or jsut roll too many dice for it too matter.It's been reduced to 4 defense, and had it's attack brought up to 4 to better fit in with Charos' 5/5. I tested it with Raelin against Knights, and though it won, it didn't feel completely one-sided (the Knights had a chance). That was at 3/5 though. 4 defense makes CS a bit less potent, and he has less offensive power than the other Wyrmlings due to the lack of special. The 4/4 makes up for that I think.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4...lingv1copy.jpg

Scytale February 19th, 2013 02:52 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
There's been a lot of discussion about creating a Green Wyrmling. This thread is the most recent community attempt. I've argued before about how I see such a thing as neither necessary nor fitting, and I believe I did in that thread too.

Putting that aside, yours is a very interesting twist on Fledgling Counterstrike. The once-per-turn limitation holds the power back significantly in a simple way. Still, adding Raelin makes them much stronger, and the design punishes heroes and squads with low numbers of figures.

Beyond that, though, personally I would never agree to the choice of figure. A bronze dragon is not a green dragon any more than a daisy is not a tulip. Even if you paint it green and say it's from Icaria, that dragon design is clearly a D&D bronze dragon. I couldn't get past that.

Heroscaper Guy February 19th, 2013 03:05 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Personally from the pictures I've seen the miniature looks green enough. I think this would be the best wyrmling we could get for charos. Now to make one for mimring!

Sir Yeshua February 19th, 2013 03:07 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
I seem to recall that one of the other problems with the Green Wyrmling was it's Valiant personality. That made it too powerful as a blocker for the 4th Mass.

capsocrates February 19th, 2013 03:15 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IshMEL (Post 1766831)
Looking forward to this! Maybe you can outline how you see this group in relation to the 3FG, the CHCG24, and your new playtesting exchange group. For a beginner, having a "road map" would be helpful in thinking about where to go for advice.

Hm. I don't really have a road map because every designer is different and not all customs should be made for the SoV. The liveliness of the customs department would be hurt, I think, if people stopped making customs that are too outside-the-box for the canon in one way or another. For a beginner I want to suggest a number of things.

*Playtest for the C3V. If you do this a lot, you'll have a shot at the Public Access Program, which is quite possibly one of the best learning experiences for a customs designer if you make use of it. Even if you don't get to be a C3V Public Access Member, the experience of analyzing the units and playing with them will give you a better feel for working with customs.

*Alternatively, playtest in the Playtest Exchange. If you're not interested in the C3V PAM (Public Access Member) route, this will serve a similar purpose as far as experience with analyzing and playtesting goes, and will also help you to build up points for when you have a unit you want others to playtest.

*Follow the customs threads of designers more experienced than yourself. Participate in conversations there. I suggest Son of Arathorn, Scytale, Lamaclown, and Super Bogue as examples, just to name a few. If you participate in their threads and have helpful, constructive dialogue it is more likely that others will be interested in giving the same in your own thread.

*Keep a journal (or folder, or whatever) of ideas. Let them sit and marinate some. Play with them. Wait to post them to your custom thread until you feel they've matured past infancy. What I've noticed about most of the good customs designers is that they only post one idea (or sometimes a group of closely related ideas) at a time, so that they can give people time to process and think about their design. They also don't seem to post every idea they have. Much like you might hear someone suggest for creative writing, I don't think its best to share something until you've had the chance to edit and rework it a few times on your own, in private. Sometimes after some time has passed and you see it with fresh eyes, you'll know what needs to be changed so that it works--or you'll realize that it's not an idea worth pursuing. You might decide to share it at that time.

*Keep in mind that not every idea is destined for the canon. One of the joys of custom design is the creativity of it. If you try to make every custom something that would be approved at the SoV you'll miss out on some fun opportunities to think outside the box and do something more original.

*If your goal is to make customs that are in-line with the canon, think about precedent. You don't have to have the same ideas as myself or anyone else, but you should seek to gain your own understanding of what has been done before and what hasn't, and why; and what is okay to do for the first time and what's not, and why.

*Have your units peer-reviewed. You may get enough feedback from comments in your thread, but if not, try to get the unit through 3FG or a similar workshop.

Heroscaper Guy February 19th, 2013 03:55 PM

Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
 
Warning long post ahead!

The main problem for the wyrmling though was it capable of wiping the floor for common melee squads. You could attack twice against melee through wyrmling bonding. Then the squad could risk a disengagement attack 33% chance for a wound or they could attack it. With flying it could easily gain height. The valiant personality would give the 4th mass a valiant bonus.

Now to discuss the big problem: Counterstrike.
What I use to analyse it is this: Does the figure have a less than 50% chance of getting whacked with counterstrike and at what attack die number?

4 defense- attacker has to have 2 dice to have a 43.2% chance of counterstrike.

5 defense- attacker has to have 3 attack dice to have a 39.5% chance of counterstrike.

6 defense- attacker has to have 3 attack to have a 49.0% chance of counterstrike.

7 defense- attacker has to have 4 attack to have a 45.0% chance of counterstrike.

8 defense- attacker has to have 5 attack to have a 41.7% chance of counterstrike.

Now I believe Greygnarl's fixes the main problem with the previous versions. With only one counterstrike per turn melee squads can swarm it and take it down without too much loss.


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