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-   -   Diplomacy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=53767)

kevindola July 25th, 2017 07:59 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I can start anytime

Kinseth July 25th, 2017 08:15 PM

Re: Diplomacy
On vacation Sunday - Thursday next week.

marrowick July 25th, 2017 08:16 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I currently have no plans that would cause me to be unavailable for an impactful amount of time.

wriggz July 25th, 2017 09:17 PM

Re: Diplomacy
any time works for me. I look forward to guiding <insert country name here> to ultimate victory.

Ranior July 26th, 2017 11:46 AM

Re: Diplomacy
I can start whenever.

I will be at gencon so those fourish days in August will create a hard time for me. I am pretty sure kevindola also goes so we may want to have a hiatus then. Apart from tht though I am clear.

dok July 26th, 2017 01:44 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Interesting to read about "carebears" and people not being willing to stab in the back here. I haven't played Diplo in a while, but I've played another similar game that has some of the same dynamics - Shogun, a.k.a. Samurai Swords, a.k.a. Ikusa (it's been re-printed a lot).

I played it a lot when I was young with friends, but 7 years back or so I started playing it with some folks online. I quickly discovered that not only did most of the players in the "core" group stick with their alliances until the end (i.e. "carebear" style), but when I stabbed my ally in the back, the other players all agreed to basically lay down arms and gang up on me to punish my terrible, horrible, no good betrayal.

At first I was just annoyed by what felt to me like an absurd style of play, but after thinking about it it sort of made sense to me. These players were playing a ton of games with each other regularly, and their reputation for faithfulness was extremely valuable. Due to the mechanics of Shogun, a betrayal can be considerably more sudden and more devastating than in Diplomacy - if you get caught with your pants down you can go from winning the game to dead man walking in one turn. Thus, this ability to trade on their past loyalty was extremely valuable for these players. It was valuable enough that they were willing to sacrifice some wins on occasion in order to keep their reputation, because this got them more wins in the long run. Basically, they were playing not one game, but an iterated game. This justifies their style of play from a game theory perspective.

That said, I didn't personally enjoy this style of play. So I convinced the organizers to set up a multi-game tournament event where all the players were anonymous. Much like the game you just played, players were not allowed to reveal their identities until after the game was over. I did manage to figure out who some people were just from their style of communication, and people did stretch these rules a bit (one player tried to get me to ally with him by arguing that another player was the current tournament points leader), but overall this led to a much more stabby-stabby style of play, with alliances getting betrayed at key moments and each player constantly on guard against the others. This suited my tastes - it was a very fun event.

With that in mind I'm a bit surprised that you had a sticky alliance with anonymous play, but I suppose Kinseth has played open games where reputation mattered often enough that that style of play is somewhat ingrained for him, and he has come to appreciate the allied win as its own sort of fine wine.

Dad_Scaper July 26th, 2017 01:45 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Ok. I'll start it when I get around to it. Maybe this evening.

Marrowick, on behalf of all of us who use this message board and don't have the patience for enormous signature blocks, thank you for changing yours.

edit: Dok, you put your finger upon the exact reason for anonymous play. Though I've seen what you're describing in your Shogun game in face-to-face games of Diplomacy that were, with that set of players, isolated. Some people just play that way. It's probably when those people mix with the rest of us that Diplomacy becomes a game that - it's been said repeatedly on forums like BGG - ends friendships.

In some groups of players, the stabber is vilified and targeted immediately. And if you correctly suss out that you are in such a group, then have fun attacking the first stabber with everybody else and benefiting slightly more than your allies, and if you are not in such a group, but it serves your interest to have that environment, then see if you can create it. :twisted:

kevindola July 31st, 2017 02:23 PM

Re: Diplomacy
I have nothing that would stop me from participating as soon as reasonable.

Dad_Scaper August 3rd, 2017 12:33 AM

Re: Diplomacy
I have now created the game "mittens" on the same judge. The privacy password is "venocsrule." The judge's email is, again, dpjudge@floc.net, and the web interface is at http://www.floc.net/dpjudge/. Let me know if you have any trouble logging in.

Dad_Scaper August 3rd, 2017 01:41 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Only two spots left!

Once the game starts, I will set the movement deadline for S1901M out a week, so everyone has time to get to know each other. Please let me know about other game management things as they come up, just like last time, for those of you who played in it.

Kinseth August 3rd, 2017 01:46 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Oh snap, I better jump on that quickly!

wriggz August 3rd, 2017 10:32 PM

Re: Diplomacy
Looks like only one spot left.

Interestingly Aug 3rd Germany declared war on France and august 4th UK declare war on Germany.

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