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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Balantai October 14th, 2010 01:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think I'd like to see it go back to Master Manipulator.

For Terrakenisis, how about:

TERRAKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 2 + Special.
All figures within 2 spaces of the targeted figure or destuctible object are also affected by Terrakinesis Special Attack. You may roll 1 additional attack die for each friendly unique hero adjacent to Samuel Sullivan to a maximum of 5 additional attack dice. Roll Attack dice once for all affected figures and destuctibe objects. Figures roll defense dice separately. Destructibe objects may not roll defense dice. If you roll at least 3 skulls when attacking with Terrakinesis Special Attack, you may move all affected figures up to 3 spaces. Figures do not take leaving engagement attacks when moved due to Terrakinesis Special Attack.

I added some complexity, but also removed some. What do you think?

Lamaclown October 14th, 2010 01:46 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1229014)
I think I'd like to see it go back to Master Manipulator.

For Terrakenisis, how about:

TERRAKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 2 + Special.
All figures within 2 spaces of the targeted figure or destuctible object are also affected by Terrakinesis Special Attack. You may roll 1 additional attack die for each friendly unique hero adjacent to Samuel Sullivan to a maximum of 5 additional attack dice. Roll Attack dice once for all affected figures and destuctibe objects. Figures roll defense dice separately. Destructibe objects may not roll defense dice. If you roll at least 3 skulls when attacking with Terrakinesis Special Attack, you may move all affected figures up to 3 spaces. Figures do not take leaving engagement attacks when moved due to Terrakinesis Special Attack.

I added some complexity, but also removed some. What do you think?

I really like the stipulations about destructible objects! The castle door doesn't seem nearly as daunting. It would also mean you could affect figs behind the door as well- very cool. Hmmm... would it affect shooters above the door as well? That would be cool.
I like it!

mac122 October 14th, 2010 02:09 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I'm still here, too. I agree with Balantai's suggestions.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1229025)
Hmmm... would it affect shooters above the door as well? That would be cool.

I think it should be able to. I don't think you'd have to add any thing in unless you want to add a height restriction "up to 20 levels above" or something like that.

Balantai October 14th, 2010 02:32 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Samuel Sullivan
HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
LEADER
RUTHLESS
VYDAR

LIFE 5
MOVE 5
RANGE 1
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 2

MASTER MANIPULATOR
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Samuel Sullivan you may take a turn with any unique hero you control within clear sight of Samuel Sullivan.

TERRAKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 2 + Special.
All figures within 2 spaces of the targeted figure or destuctible object are also affected by Terrakinesis Special Attack. You may roll 1 additional attack die for each friendly unique hero adjacent to Samuel Sullivan to a maximum of 5 additional attack dice. Roll Attack dice once for all affected figures and destuctibe objects. Figures roll defense dice separately. Destructibe objects may not roll defense dice. Samuel Sullivan can not be affected by his own Terrakinesis Special Attack. If you roll at least 3 skulls when attacking with Terrakinesis Special Attack, you may move all affected figures up to 3 spaces. Figures do not take leaving engagement attacks when moved due to Terrakinesis Special Attack.

COST: 150

Balantai October 14th, 2010 02:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I could see removing the 5 die maximum. Besides, is there really that much of a difference between 5 dice and 6 dice. Also, how often will there be six unique heroes surrounding Sullivan?

Lamaclown October 14th, 2010 02:56 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
EDIT: Wow, I didn't realize I worked on this post so long until I saw that Balantai had posted twice while I was working on this...

Quote:

Samuel Sullivan
HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
LEADER
RUTHLESS
VYDAR

LIFE 5
MOVE 5
RANGE 1
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 2

MASTER MANIPULATOR
After revealing an Order Marker on Samuel Sullivan's card, instead of taking a turn with Samuel Sullivan, you may take a turn with any unique hero you control withn clear sight of Samuel Sullivan. (Master Manipulator official wording)

TERRAKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 2 + Special.
All figures within 2 spaces of the targeted figure or destuctible object are also affected by Terrakinesis Special Attack. You may roll 1 additional attack die for each friendly unique hero adjacent to Samuel Sullivan. Roll Attack dice once for all affected figures and destuctibe objects. Figures roll defense dice separately. Destructibe objects may not roll defense dice. If you roll at least 3 skulls when attacking with Terrakinesis Special Attack, you may move all affected figures up to 3 spaces. Figures do not take leaving engagement attacks when moved due to Terrakinesis Special Attack.

It is a good thing we simplified some. This all barely fits on a card and that is at a 10 point size font- but fit it does.

If there is no other input on this, how about cost?

Master Manipulator alone is a good enough reason for me to draft him as it greatly simplifies OMs on your heroes (I use Red Skull often because of it; I even do well with him). However, once all of your heroes are destroyed, he loses quite a bit of affectiveness.

Terrakinesis, when used strategically will wreak some havoc. It has the potential to affect up to 19 figures. It can be especially useful in storm-the-castle type games (if he can survive long enough to get to the castle door).

Low defense and attack, and average life for a hero bring his cost down.

Looking at Red Skull:
Life 5
Move 5
Range 5
Attack 4
Defense 3

Manipulator + Insta kill ability

Cost: 190

Looking at Samuel:
Life 5 (match)
Move 5 (match)
Range 1 (but has ranged special with +1 range over Red Skull)
Attack 2 (but ranged special can affect multiple figures; also, as a special attack, his range attack bypasses some defensive abilities which Red Skull's can't; advantage I think goes to Samuel)
Defense 2 (Red Skull has the advantage)

Manipulator + Mass affect special attack

?Cost: 160 (I think the difference between 2 defense and 3 defense is greater than it appears on paper)

My first estimate was between 110-120 but after comparing him to Red Skull he is more powerful than I first thought. A Defense of 2 was a good idea.

Take this with a grain of salt. We are moving into my weakest area in custom making.

Balantai October 14th, 2010 03:05 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
I think the cost could come down even a bit more. If you're utilizing Master Manipulator, you're potentially weakening your own Special Attack. I would put him at about 130.

EDIT: In addition, I needed to add "Samuel Sullivan can not be affected by his own Terrakinesis Special Attack." to the Special Power. I hope it still fits on the card.

Lamaclown October 14th, 2010 03:25 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1229095)
I think the cost could come down even a bit more. If you're utilizing Master Manipulator, you're potentially weakening your own Special Attack. I would put him at about 130.

EDIT: In addition, I needed to add "Samuel Sullivan can not be affected by his own Terrakinesis Special Attack." to the Special Power. I hope it still fits on the card.

I'm all about lowering points when possible.
As far as fitting on the card, at first I couldn't get it to fit. Then I realized it was one of the old card templates. All the newer cards have an extended ability text area plus they got rid of the swoosh at the bottom to give even more ability text area. With some work I was able to get it all to fit. If we departed from total officialness and referred to him as simply Samuel in the ability texts and dropped the Sullivan we could pick up some space (although it wouldn't sound as good).

Also, is there a shorter way to spell "Terrakinesis Special Attack"? ;)

Balantai October 14th, 2010 03:45 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1229110)
If we departed from total officialness and referred to him as simply Samuel in the ability texts and dropped the Sullivan we could pick up some space (although it wouldn't sound as good).

Also, is there a shorter way to spell "Terrakinesis Special Attack"? ;)

Actually, I believe there is some official precedence for this. The Incredible Hulk often reference Hulk in the power text. It always address him as Incredible Hulk the first time in a power, but all futher references in the power reference Hulk.

machinekng October 14th, 2010 08:03 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Point wise, by looking the card, I'd place him in the 170-180 range. Terrakinesis is a retty powerful attack, more powerful than Queglix on certain maps, I daresay. The only other unit with a ranged attack that strong is the Roman Archers of their special attack of 6. Like the Roman Archers' special attack, Sullivan's attack is somewhat circumstantial, but If you use a hero-heavy army, it can and will be very powerful.

mac122 October 14th, 2010 08:11 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1229110)
Also, is there a shorter way to spell "Terrakinesis Special Attack"? ;)

I don't have any cards in front of me here at work...wow, wouldn't it be fun if my job entailed having Heroscape cards...anyway, but I believe on some cards, after the first reference to a Special Attack in the text, they drop the words "Special Attack" in later references. If so, that would eliminate about 28 characters from the text:

Quote:

TERRAKINESIS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 2 + Special.
All figures within 2 spaces of the targeted figure or destuctible object are also affected by Terrakinesis Special Attack. You may roll 1 additional attack die for each friendly unique hero adjacent to Samuel Sullivan. Roll Attack dice once for all affected figures and destuctibe objects. Figures roll defense dice separately. Destructibe objects may not roll defense dice. If you roll at least 3 skulls when attacking with Terrakinesis, you may move all affected figures up to 3 spaces. Figures do not take leaving engagement attacks when moved due to Terrakinesis.

Edit: of course the first card I find in the gallery does not support my theory. I'll look through some tonight and see if I was dreaming about that

Balantai October 14th, 2010 08:19 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by machinekng (Post 1229391)
Point wise, by looking the card, I'd place him in the 170-180 range. Terrakinesis is a retty powerful attack, more powerful than Queglix on certain maps, I daresay. The only other unit with a ranged attack that strong is the Roman Archers of their special attack of 6. Like the Roman Archers' special attack, Sullivan's attack is somewhat circumstantial, but If you use a hero-heavy army, it can and will be very powerful.

The only reason I think he would be less than that is because of his 2 defense and 5 life. His worth definitely increases as you increase the total points of your army. One on one he's almost worthless, but in a crowd he's devastating.


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