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-   -   The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Playtesting(Fellowship A) (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=57517)

capsocrates June 24th, 2020 11:24 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Perkins (Post 2400940)
Re-named second power to "Orc Supremacy". I went with this over "Doom, Boom" because we likely will re-use it on some other orcs and the common name is good.

We cannot call it Orc Supremacy because it is different from _____ Supremacy powers. Those don't have the clause about "for each X you control" nor the "does affect Orc Deep Drummers." It doesn't have to be "Doom, Boom." I like something thematic at least like BEAT OF DOOM or something. It could just be ORC ENHANCEMENT I suppose.

If we are agreed on using that Orc Wardrummer figure we should also get it in the OP.

White Knight June 25th, 2020 09:17 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
I think it's strange to make a power for a figure that boost the 20 sided die roll of another power for that figure. That "Roll 1-3" is very deceptive, since it's really 1-2. And I'd prefer so say Roll "20 or higher".

Having said those things, I understand there is probably precedence for it. And I have no other issues with the drummers moving on to playtesting.

Shiftrex June 25th, 2020 10:04 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
That's a good point, its wonky and could lead to confusion.

capsocrates July 3rd, 2020 06:28 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
WK brought up some good points. We need to change the "20" to "20 or higher" for sure.

If we don't want them to modify their own powers we'll need to scrap them boosting each other altogether. There's no meaningful way to distinguish between them without making the wording more complex IMO.

The power is still called ORC SUPREMACY even though it is slightly different from other Supremacy powers, so we need to change that. I am still okay with DOOM, BOOM, but we could go for something like ORC LUCK ENHANCEMENT or something like that.

What are y'all's thoughts, @Shiftrex , @Chris Perkins ?

Chris Perkins July 10th, 2020 03:59 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
Sorry for the delay.

I've updated the OP to have the following changes:
1) "Orc Supremacy" was changed to "Orc Luck Enhancement". I like something more generic like this over "Doom, Boom" so it has more future re-use potential.
2) I changed "20" to "20 or higher".

Regarding boosting each other, I think this is necessary if they are a common hero - if they can't boost each other, they should be a 1 life unique hero (i.e. Isamu, Otonashi). There needs to be some reason to take a 2nd copy of a common figure, in my view (whereas here it's virtually useless).

What about changing the wording to be: "Anytime you roll the 20-sided die for an Orc Army Card, you may add 1 to your roll for every Orc Deep Drummer you control. An Orc Deep Drummer cannot increase his own D20 roll."
Thoughts on that wording?

capsocrates July 10th, 2020 05:30 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Perkins (Post 2404011)
What about changing the wording to be: "Anytime you roll the 20-sided die for an Orc Army Card, you may add 1 to your roll for every Orc Deep Drummer you control. An Orc Deep Drummer cannot increase his own D20 roll."
Thoughts on that wording?

I don't think this wording solves the problem. Imagine that the Orc Deep Drummers were a common squad of two figures. You can't word the power such that any two figures in the squad only affect *other* figures in the squad than those two. That's not how common squads work. Common heroes are just common squads with 1x figures.


I am pretty sure the solution is they they either boost themselves or ALL Orc Deep Drummers are immune to the effect.

Chris Perkins July 10th, 2020 05:40 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
The comparison to the squad is a good point, hadn't considered wording from that frame of reference before.

What about moving him back to an uncommon hero with 2 lives?

I'm just hesitant to introduce a common hero where bringing a second copy of the card gives ~ 0 benefit.

I think I'd rather see it as either a unique hero with one life or an uncommon hero with 2 lives rather than a common hero where you'll never bring more than one of him in an army.

capsocrates July 10th, 2020 06:28 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
I am okay with the Unique Hero route.

But I'm not opposed to just starting with +1 per Orc Deep Drummer seeing how it goes in playtesting. We also have the option of them *only* boosting other d20 powers like Chomp and Orc Violence.

Chris Perkins July 11th, 2020 12:22 AM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
Ok, give this discussion I'm in favor of starting with +1 per Orc Deep Drummer and then keeping unique hero as a backup option if it goes poorly in play-testing.

capsocrates July 12th, 2020 01:41 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
What are your thoughts, @Shiftrex ?

Shiftrex July 12th, 2020 02:21 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
Thematically I like the direction of +1 per Orc Deep Drummer. I always like to work from thematic or capturing what we want to represent and War Drums just strike me as being more effective in droves.

My secondary thought would be an Uncommon hero with 2/3 lives that boosts all "OTHER" d20 powers. I would fall back on Unique Hero as a last resort just because the figure isn't named and I don't think the project is really keen to the idea of creating plausible characters and putting names on them which kinda goes hand in hand with the "Unique Hero" tag for me.

capsocrates September 15th, 2020 10:47 AM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
 
This is our OP right now. It may be overpriced. Let's make a final decision on Doom, Boom vs. Orc Luck Enhancement. I definitely prefer the former. "Luck Enhancement" doesn't make sense. If Heroscape used "d20" I could see "Orc d20 Enhancement" but "Orc Twenty-Sided Die Enhancement" is just too much.

@Chris Perkins @Shiftrex



Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Perkins (Post 2397456)
NAME = Orc Deep Drummer

GENERAL = UTGAR
UNIQUENESS = Common Hero
CLASS = Drummer
PERSONALITY = Fearsome
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/4

LIFE = 1
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 1
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 35

DRUMS IN THE DEEP
After revealing an Order Marker on Deep Drummer Orc and before moving, you may roll the 20-sided die.
* If you roll 1- 3, nothing happens.
* If you roll 3-10, you may move up to 4 unengaged Orc Squad figures 3 spaces each.
* If you roll 11-19, you may move up to 8 unengaged Orc Squad figures 3 spaces each.
* If you roll 20 or higher, move up to 12 unengaged Orc squad figures 3 spaces each.

ORC LUCK ENHANCEMENT
Anytime you roll the 20-sided die for an Orc Army Card, you may add 1 to your roll for each Orc Deep Drummer you control. Orc Deep Drummers are affected by Doom, Boom.



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