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-   -   The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Playtesting(Fellowship A) (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=57517)

Shiftrex June 24th, 2020 04:13 PM

Re: The Workbook of Moria War Drummer - Design (Fellowship A
I vote not to include cave dweller as well, was just part of the checklist and review process.

That miniature looks dope, I like it a lot. Though I don't know how much my judgement of figures should be relied on, i'm just using a gamesworkshop unpainted miniature for this.

Moria is indeed redundant, I'm on board with that reasoning. Consistency dictates we include Orc, I think we should.

[mention]Chris Perkins[\mention] Can you make the proposed edits to the ability/name of the army card/thread? If we are all on board with that miniature then we could also have someone do a mock up of the card since we appear to be entering into a "finalization" or a "test this thing" soon kind of state.

And yes, I created an internal checklist. Looks like I'll probably have the motivation to learn to be our checklist guy so I added some more qualifiers to it.

Chris Perkins June 24th, 2020 04:33 PM

Re: The Workbook of Moria War Drummer - Design (Fellowship A
OP updated. I think I captured all the changes, but if you notice any I missed let me know and I'll update the OP again.

I made one small change that we had not previously discussed - I switched the height from 5? to 4. I think orcs (and moria orcs especially) are a bit shorter in general. I don't know how tall the miniature that @capsocrates found is, so if it's drastically different from a 'scape 4 let me know and I'll update the height in the OP.

I made the name "Deep Drummer Orc" - we had what appeared to be a 2-1 vote against inclusion of "Moria" in the name, with @capsocrates wanting it but @Shiftrex and myself not. If we end up changing our minds here I'll update the name but this is where I arrived at the current version from.

capsocrates June 24th, 2020 05:08 PM

Re: The Workbook of Moria War Drummer - Design (Fellowship A
I won't fight about including Moria in the name.

A few more things I noticed looking at the OP.

"an other" should be "another."

We should definitely change the personality; no need for these guys to bond with Death Chasers IMO.

Shouldn't it be "Orc Deep Drummer" and not "Deep Drummer Orc"?

Maybe the class should just be "Drummer" since "War" is not in the name anymore? I would also be okay with something less specific like Warrior but I will defer to the two of you.

Can we get the thread title updated?

It is nice to use the second post of the thread to track the different versions of the design.

Somewhere in the first or second thread we should have a list to the two checklists.

Speaking of the checklists, @Shiftrex do you want to put that checklist in a central place? Either its own thread or in one of the "general purpose" threads? Maybe the design thread? And should we add a question about height? It seems we are preferring the "thematic" height of a figure over the figure's real-life physical height, which is fine with me; I think we should add a checklist item to address that.

Shiftrex June 24th, 2020 05:15 PM

Re: The Workbook of Moria War Drummer - Design (Fellowship A
It definitely should be another, I changed that in my editing post under the assumption that would be our OP update.

I'm neutral about a personality change. I don't care if they bond with death chasers or not, I doubt these figures will be competitive at all outside of an Orc based army so I would just shrug off a small synergy like that.

Either naming convention is fine, having Orc come first places more emphasis on the racial component of the figure while having it come after places more emphasis on the profession of the unit. There isn't a wrong answer, I feel that both are grammatically fine. If I had to vote I'd put Orc before Deep Drummer in the naming convention.

Central place? I guess I can. Didn't see a purpose, I just copy/paste it each time and I assume that I'm going to be doing most of the checklists. OR are you just meaning my addition to it? :U clarity is required on my part.

Drummer is fine as a class, the Moria Orcs were not quite as organized for war as the Mordor Orcs.

I am against adding a question about height, we should always keep in line with the figure's actual height otherwise we are breaking a fundamental rule of heroscape. The size stat has always been the actual SIZE of the figure as far as I understand it.

capsocrates June 24th, 2020 05:25 PM

Re: The Workbook of Moria War Drummer - Design (Fellowship A
You won't necessarily be always doing the checklists. It is nice to have a "master list" that we copy from and can add things to and discuss separate from any one unit.

If we want to base it on the actual height, we can't decide on heights for sure until we buy the "official" mini. We are in uncharted territory here, where most players will use proxies rather than the "official" figure, and the official figure may often be a bit of a mismatch against the lore. This is why I would rather go with a lore-based number instead of a figure-based number.

We need to have a question about height regardless of what our philosophy is. :)

Chris Perkins June 24th, 2020 06:47 PM

Re: The Workbook of Moria War Drummer - Design (Fellowship A
For the personality, how about "fearsome"? The drums certainly put fear in anyone who heard them in Moria.

I changed the name to "Orc Deep Drummer" (Orc first) - I agree with capsocrates on that one because other names make sense with that pattern, i.e. "Orcs of Moria". And I changed the class to "Drummer".

Regarding renaming the thread - how do I do that? Never done it before on the forums here.

And I'm not entirely sure how you track versions using the second post - are you suggesting I keep the version before the current there, or a complete history of the major versions of the card?

capsocrates June 24th, 2020 07:50 PM

Re: The Workbook of Moria War Drummer - Design (Fellowship A
I just like to quote the OP and then copy paste that into a spoiler in the second post. Like a snapshot.

To change the thread title just edit the OP and "Go Advanced" then look towards the top.

Chris Perkins June 24th, 2020 07:57 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
Got it - thread title should be updated with the new name of the figure.

I'll try to remember to quote the OP into the second post before I edit it next time to start the snapshots.

Shiftrex June 24th, 2020 07:58 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
Awesome, I'm happy with the name change and the personality change. What is up next?

capsocrates June 24th, 2020 09:01 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
I think I can get behind Fearsome for the personality. Wild just does not feel right.

Can we call the first power

And the second power

Actually, as I was writing this I realized this power is really "Orc Supremacy." And then I got to thinking... I think we need to word this power differently to deal with some ambiguity we created by making the card Common. Something like:
Anytime you roll the 20-sided die for an Orc Army Card, you may add 1 to your roll for each Orc Deep Drummer you control. Orc Deep Drummers are affected by Doom, Boom.
And just live with each Drummer boosting his own roll.


C3V would have had a "review" by now where they open up the design for comment by the other members. I don't think we've made significant enough changes to the design to make that necessary, but sometimes extra eyes catch things we might otherwise not. Do y'all want to ask for comment? It is usually timed: open up the thread for like 72 hours for anyone to say their peace, then collect the feedback at the end and decide if anything needs to be done about it.

Chris Perkins June 24th, 2020 10:36 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
I'm a fan of all those ideas.

I updated the OP with:
Personality: Fearsome (no bonding with any figure that I'm aware of)
Re-named first power to "Drums in the Deep"
Re-named second power to "Orc Supremacy". I went with this over "Doom, Boom" because we likely will re-use it on some other orcs and the common name is good.
Re-worded "Orc Supremacy" with capsocrates.
Put the previous version in the 2nd post under a spoiler tag for version control.

I'll go ahead and post in the general chat that this figure is ready for review with the 72 hour info, I think that's a good standard to create for all these cards.

Shiftrex June 24th, 2020 11:02 PM

Re: The Workbook of Orc Deep Drummer - Design (Fellowship A)
Awesome. Seems great ^^ I'm hood with everything to include the review but I'm not sure how much feedback we will get. Hope we get some views.

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