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-   -   The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55039)

IAmBatman August 24th, 2019 07:13 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
No worries. Appreciate the help. I was starting to wonder if I needed to put this on hold (but glad to see there's still interest).

Arch-vile August 24th, 2019 08:10 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Entering Vehicles & Occupying Vehicles: do we need the info about Huge VDOs and specific spaces for entering vehicles? Those sentences add a lot of complexity for something we haven't designed yet, so it's odd that we're locking those rules in so early. Let's leave that for later and maybe have a small supplemental rulebook for Huge VDOs when we get there.

Occupying Vehicles: We need something dealing with switching seats, since passengers are useless if there's no driver currently. This was discussed earlier but we never came to a conclusion. How about this:
Quote:

A figure occupying a VDO may move to an empty seat in the same VDO as a free action anytime on that figure's turn.
Moving Vehicles: I'd like to change this for clarity, as you'd never make leaving engagement attacks while moving. Additionally, figures in the VDO shouldn't ever be engaged to figures outside the VDO, so there's no need for that last part, right?

Old version:
Quote:

When moving the VDO, follow standard movement rules, with one exception: VDOs and occupying figures do not make or receive leaving engagement attacks against figures outside of the VDO.
New version:
Quote:

When moving the VDO, follow standard movement rules. VDOs never receive leaving engagement attacks.
Exiting Vehicles: There currently isn't a way for a passenger to do anything in a VDO when revealing an OM on their card. So I'd change the first paragraph like so:

Old version:
Quote:

After moving a VDO you control on your turn, before completing the rest of your turn, you may exit with any or all of your figures that occupy that VDO.
New version:
Quote:

After moving a VDO you control on your turn or instead of moving with a figure occupying a VDO, before completing the rest of your turn, you may exit with any or all of your figures that occupy that VDO.
Destroying Vehicles: There are no current VDOs where you can be on top of them, so this is also info that could be cut for clarity. These rules are hella complex already, so I'd be in favor of simply omitting that stuff entirely and limiting standing on VDOs to Huge VDOs when/if we ever get there. It's a chore for me to read these rules and I've played them, so cutting stuff where we can is a good idea.

Lazy Orang August 24th, 2019 08:10 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
I'd want to get to Huge VDOs sooner rather than later - I don't like the idea of leaving that floating and undefined for too long.

Arch-vile August 24th, 2019 08:19 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Cool with me! I'd just like to leave the rules specific to Huge VDOs in a Huge VDO rulebook. That way whoever just wants to play with a Sports Car or Batmobile doesn't have to trudge through all these rules that aren't relevant to most vehicles.

quozl August 24th, 2019 08:29 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
My edits below:

Page 2:

Quote:

These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas:
• Drafting Vehicles
• Entering Vehicles
• Occupying Vehicles
• Partial and Full Cover
• Moving Vehicles
• Exiting Vehicles
• Destroying Vehicles
Quote:

EXAMPLE 1: Vehicle Card
Like the Official Destructible Object cards, the Vehicle Destructible Object cards that are affected by this rule set have a similar appearance but with a few additions.

Uniqueness: Whether a Vehicle is Unique or CUncommon.

Occupancy: The number value indicates the number of figures that can occupy the Vehicle.

Size/Height: The Size and Height indicate the Vehicle’s actual size and height as per the standard Heroscape game mechanics, but also by their inclusion symbolize that this Destructible Object is compatible with the throwing rules from the C3G Destructible Objects rule set.

Partial Cover/Full Cover: This indicates whether a Vehicle offers Partial Cover or Full Cover for occupying figures.

Move: Because these Destructible Objects are Vehicles, a Move value is included to allow their movement across the battlefield as described in the standard Heroscape rules.
Quote:

DRAFTING VEHICLES

Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs) act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Common or Uncommon VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like Army Cards, VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and are considered to be in like any other figure in that player's Army, with a few key exceptions:
• A VDO is not considered under a player's control unless that player has one or more figures occupying that VDO (see more below).
• A VDO is never considered engaged with another figure.
•A VDO never has Order Markers placed or revealed on its Army Card.
Quote:

ENTERING VEHICLES

A figure may enter a VDO by ending its movement on a space adjacent to the VDO if it meets the following criteria:

• Your figure’s size must be smaller than that of the VDO. Refer to Example 1 to identify the VDO’s size on its Army Card. NOTE - The size of a figure is located on the left hand side of its Army Card next to its height. The different sizes are ordered from smallest to largest as follows: Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, and Huge.

• The current occupancy of the VDO must be less than the Occupancy number of that VDO. The occupancy designation on a Vehicle Army Card shows the number of figures that may occupy a VDO. A figure can only enter a VDO if that VDO has fewer figures on its Army Card than its Occupancy number (example: If a car has an Occupancy number of 2, but only has 1 figure occupying it, a 2nd figure can enter that car).

• Some VDOs may have specific entrances/exits marked on the figure itself. In this case the VDO can only be entered or exited from empty spaces within one space of that VDO and in the direction that the entrance/exit is directly facing.

• When a figure first enters a VDO, the Player controlling that figure should either place the figure on any unoccupied space within one space of a designated entrance/exit area or, if no such area is designated, they may place the figure on any unoccupied space in the VDO.

Page 3:

OCCUPYING VEHICLES

Most VDOs, particularly if they are Large or smaller, have spaces designated on their Army Cards for the placement of occupying figures. Some Huge VDOs may have separate battlefield maps to represent their more spacious interiors. This rule set will specifically address the former: Vehicles that include spaces on their Army Cards to place occupying figures.

Figures occupying a VDO are still considered to be on the battlefield, controlled by the Player whose Army they are in, occupying the same space (or spaces) as that VDO for the purpose of counting spaces for range and power selection, but are not affected by any special terrain rules for that space.

Figures occupying a Vehicle are considered adjacent to all other figures occupying that VDO and to the VDO itself, but are never considered adjacent to or engaged with figures outside of the VDO.

If two or more enemy figures occupy the same VDO, they are considered engaged.

Each VDO has a designated space for the Driver. If a figure you control is the only figure occupying a VDO or if a figure you control is occupying the designated Driver space in a VDO, you now control that VDO.

A figure occupying a VDO may still have Order Markers placed and revealed on its Army Card.

PARTIAL COVER AND FULL COVER

As denoted in the left box of each VDO, they a VDO can be have Partial Cover or Full Cover.

Figures occupying a VDO with Full Cover are never in clear sight of figures outside of that VDO and never have clear sight on figures outside of that VDO.

VDOs with Partial Cover do allow for clear sight between figures occupying that VDO and figures on the outside. Partial Cover VDOs are those with windows or other openings that allow for clear sight. These clear sight openings will be marked on Army Cards by the green target points on the VDO’s Hit Zone. Clear sight can only be traced through these target points.

When a figure occupying a Partial Cover VDO targets a figure outside of that VDO, they should use the target point for that VDO to trace line of sight and range. When a figure outside of a Partial Cover VDO targets a figure occupying that VDO, they should use the target points for that VDO as the hit zone for any occupying figure.

Unless a special power indicates otherwise, a figure can only target one figure occupying a VDO at a time. If, however, a special power targets or chooses a space and the space the VDO occupies is chosen, the VDO and all figures occupying the VDO are affected.

MOVING VEHICLES

In addition to the Size, Life, and Defense values contained on destructible object cards, VDOs have a Movement value.

Instead of moving normally with an Army Card you control, if one of the figures from that card occupies the Driver space for a VDO, you may move that VDO. You may only move each VDO this way once during each player turn.

When moving the VDO, follow standard movement rules, with one exception: VDOs and occupying figures do not make or receive leaving engagement attacks against figures outside of the VDO.

If a VDO would be moved, any figures occupying it stay in that VDO and are moved with it. If any of the occupants cannot be moved for any reason, that VDO cannot be moved.

EXITING VEHICLES

After moving a VDO you control on your turn, before completing the rest of your turn, you may exit with any or all of your figures that occupy that VDO.

If you wish to have one of your figures exit a VDO you do not control, you may have that figure Exit instead of moving normally on its turn. If that figure does not have the Super Strength special power, before exiting with that figure, roll one unblockable attack die against it.

To exit with a figure that is occupying a VDO, place it on an empty space adjacent to the VDO (directly facing adjacent to the VDO's entrance/exit area if it has one). If an exiting figure was engaged with any other figures occupying the VDO prior to exiting the VDO, it will take any leaving engagement attacks.

DESTROYING VEHICLES

If a VDO receives enough wounds to be destroyed, each figure on top of the VDO or occupying the VDO immediately receives X Wounds where X = any excess wounds the VDO received beyond what was needed to destroy it.

After removing the destroyed VDO from the battlefield, players may, in initiative order, place all of their figures that remain on top of the VDO on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed VDO. Figures moved when the VDO is destroyed never take any leaving engagement attacks but will receive any falling damage that may apply.

Then players may, in initiative order, place each remaining figure they control that was occupying the VDO on a space or spaces previously occupied by the destroyed VDO. If a figure that was occupying a destroyed VDO cannot be placed on a legal space or spaces, that figure is immediately destroyed.

Tornado August 24th, 2019 08:34 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Nice. Thanks quozl.

IAmBatman August 24th, 2019 08:43 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
I made a quick edit to what I posted based on some feedback Karat dropped on Discord (I linked the thread, so don't blame me :-P ). I'm going to pick through the responses here, but, quickly, it's notable that we DO have a Huge VDO already, just not one we've tested yet with these rules or where we've created a draftable version of it. It's the Mole Machine.

Tornado August 24th, 2019 08:49 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
I can probably test that, I have one somewhere. :)

quozl August 24th, 2019 08:58 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
We already decided to drop interior spaces so there's no difference between a Huge vehicle and any other size.

IAmBatman August 24th, 2019 09:22 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl (Post 2308227)
We already decided to drop interior spaces so there's no difference between a Huge vehicle and any other size.

When? Can you find where we made that official decision? Not doubting you, just not recalling it happening.

quozl August 24th, 2019 09:25 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Don't have time to go through the thread right now but it was when we decided to just make everyone inside adjacent to everyone else and only have a driver space on the card.

IAmBatman August 24th, 2019 09:28 PM

Re: The Book of Draftable Vehicle Rules - Final Editing
 
Here's what I'm thinking right now, if I can get Hero approval

(so @japes @quozl @Soundwarp SG-1 @johnny139 @Karat @Lazy Orang )

I'm officially requesting permission to do the following (and help with it, especially from Art!):

1. Start a thread for the draftable version of the Sports Car VDO and link the tests done with it here to that thread and the rules set here to that thread.

2. Get cards for the Sports Car VDO that have the changes we made here (spaces for seats on the card, including a designated Driver's seat, and the point cost of 100, as well as the Common Vehicle designation).

3. Vote that card to On Deck.

4. (If necessary based on whether quozl can find out that we made an official ruling or not, let me put this thread on hold while we tweak and perfect the wording and start up a thread for a draftable Mole Machine VDO. Let me LD that through the process and get the costs all figured out in testing, then have cards made for it just like the Sports Car and get it On Deck.

5. Perfect the rules here and get the art done and vote them On Deck along with the draftable versions of the Sports Car and Mole Machine.

This thread has been a bit haphazard in part due to having many drivers, so I'm trying to think through what's needed to really tie all this up neatly for an eventual release (hoping to LD a Batmobile that could be released with it so that it's not just old VDOs).

I also want opinions on whether these rules should replace the old VDO rules or just be an alternative to them. We've got a section just on drafting here, but these rules could obviously be used with the non-draftable Sports Car and Mole Machine as well.

Let me know what you all think, please! :-)


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