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Ronin September 5th, 2018 05:16 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Sports Car

Army Test
Map: Green Lantern (Mogo)
Units: Sports Car @150, Mantis, Zombie, Larfleeze, Alien Drone, Atom (1000) vs Captain America, Bucky, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Iron Man Mk IV (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Mountain Spring
Units: Sports Car @150, Star-Lord, Mantis, Nebula, White Tiger (1000) vs Fantastic Four (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: The Sports Car feels okay to me at 150 - it went 2-3 counting the games that I lost my notes for.

Its greatest tactical advantage is probably the protection it offers for its occupants, but the mobility and auto-wounds ain't bad either.

I think further testing should probably focus on ways to leverage figures in the Sports Car being able to use special powers - that was used a little bit in the later games here, but I didn't set up the armies to really try and juice that. Also, more multi-car games and games with squads driving cars would be interesting to see.

IAmBatman September 5th, 2018 05:26 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Great job on the tests! :up:

Any tips on figures that might be good for abusing the car with special powers?

Ronin September 5th, 2018 05:30 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Not immediately. I wasn't looking for that when I was initially looking for figures to test the car with. Any thoughts from @dok ?

Scapemage September 5th, 2018 05:33 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Awesome stuff! Glad to see this moving.

dok September 5th, 2018 06:23 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Where do I look at the actual designs of the vehicles?

If you are allowed to reveal OMs as usual, can you use "instead of taking a turn" powers while on a vehicle card? Can Nick Fury or Mad Thinker use their bonding powers (which do not have clear sight requirements) from inside the vehicle?

The same questions apply to figures on Kang2's card, as I noted before. But Kang2 is expensive and demands a certain sort of build. The "hide your Joker/Ozy/Silk Spectre/Destiny/bonding hub/etc" strategy works a lot better when you're hiding them in a relatively cheap vehicl, that spits them out when they die, as opposed to an expensive Kang that doesn't.

Basically, I think the biggest competitive use for vehicles will be as a suit of armor for figures that don't currently need to be in the fray.

But that's without seeing the vehicle cards themselves.

Ronin September 5th, 2018 06:30 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dok (Post 2219091)
Where do I look at the actual designs of the vehicles?

If you are allowed to reveal OMs as usual, can you use "instead of taking a turn" powers while on a vehicle card? Can Nick Fury or Mad Thinker use their bonding powers (which do not have clear sight requirements) from inside the vehicle?

The same questions apply to figures on Kang2's card, as I noted before. But Kang2 is expensive and demands a certain sort of build. The "hide your Joker/Ozy/Silk Spectre/Destiny/bonding hub/etc" strategy works a lot better when you're hiding them in a relatively cheap vehicl, that spits them out when they die, as opposed to an expensive Kang that doesn't.

Basically, I think the biggest competitive use for vehicles will be as a suit of armor for figures that don't currently need to be in the fray.

But that's without seeing the vehicle cards themselves.

Sports Car and Mole Machine (untested as of yet). And the current vehicle rules.

Agreed on the 'car armor' point.

I think unlike Kang (II), vehicles could allow you to use 'instead of taking a turn' powers. I started testing before we flipped that Kang (II) ruling, though, so I wasn't really hitting that at first.

Lazy Orang September 5th, 2018 06:31 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dok (Post 2219091)
Where do I look at the actual designs of the vehicles?

If you are allowed to reveal OMs as usual, can you use "instead of taking a turn" powers while on a vehicle card? Can Nick Fury or Mad Thinker use their bonding powers (which do not have clear sight requirements) from inside the vehicle?

The same questions apply to figures on Kang2's card, as I noted before. But Kang2 is expensive and demands a certain sort of build. The "hide your Joker/Ozy/Silk Spectre/Destiny/bonding hub/etc" strategy works a lot better when you're hiding them in a relatively cheap vehicl, that spits them out when they die, as opposed to an expensive Kang that doesn't.

Basically, I think the biggest competitive use for vehicles will be as a suit of armor for figures that don't currently need to be in the fray.

But that's without seeing the vehicle cards themselves.

Sports Car
Mole Machine


We don't have any others yet.

Ronin September 5th, 2018 06:43 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
We have some flexibility in that we're gonna be updating the Vehicle Rules to make em draftable anyway - if you think it would be worth specifically shutting down special powers for figures in vehicles, in order to keep them from just being Joker Armor or whatever, I think that would be a reasonable tweak to keep their costs from being inflated too much.

dok September 5th, 2018 06:43 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Yeah... this needs to get addressed. When it was just Kang2 and a few opponent's abilities, it didn't really matter from a competitive perspective. But if we allow "instead of taking a turn" powers, or even more general synergy powers (e.g. Destiny Probability Manipulation, Joker(I)/Ozy OM stuff, etc) to be done from inside the vehicle, then it's a very big deal.

I believe the ruling is still that you can't take "instead of taking a turn" powers from Kang's card. See the Nick Fury ruling:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn (Post 1270570)
Q- Can I put Order Markers on Nick Fury and use his Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. special power to take a turn with a unit on the battlefield while Nick Fury isn't on the battlefield due to not yet being placed by his Helicarrier Drop Team special power?
A- In short, no. While you can legally place Order Markers on Nick Fury's card while he is not on the battlefield, you can't actually take turns with him. And since Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. is "instead" of Nick Fury's turn, it requires that he be able to take that turn for him to be able to give that turn to a different figure.

You can reveal the OM on a non-destroyed off-battlefield figure, but you can't take a turn, is the way I interpret it.

Possible solutions in the next post.

dok September 5th, 2018 06:51 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
If we don't want the costs of these things to be driven by the ability to provide armor to support/bonding/passive power figures, then here are my suggestions:
  • Go through the the relevant powers of passive non-LOS support figures like Destiny, and probably Joker(I) and Ozy, and add a "while you control Destiny" to powers like probability manipulation. This sets it such that they can't use the powers unless the figure is physically on the battlefield.

  • Change the way OM reveals on figures in vehicles works so that it's clear the figure doesn't take a turn in the normal way. There's a lot of ways to do it, but the gist of it is you need to cut off the ability to use "instead of taking a turn" powers.

Nulling all powers while in vehicles would obviously work, although it might be overkill (I think it's OK for Healing Factor X to work inside a vehicle, for example).

Ronin September 5th, 2018 08:45 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dok (Post 2219108)
Nulling all powers while in vehicles would obviously work, although it might be overkill (I think it's OK for Healing Factor X to work inside a vehicle, for example).

I don't mind healing factors not working in vehicles, if only because it means there's that much less reward for turtling inside them.

(And no special powers really simplifies testing)

Obviously you'd need some kind of carve-out for powers like Lady Blackhawk's that are specifically meant to work inside vehicles, but that's not a ton of language or anything.

IAmBatman September 5th, 2018 09:24 PM

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread (Initial Testing)
 
If figures can't use special powers at all while in vehicles, will that really dull the desire to draft them? Or do you feel they bring enough else to the table?


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