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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Balantai January 3rd, 2011 05:19 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mac122 (Post 1306201)
Edit: To me it's more cost control. Bonding does allow that 4th turn, but you have to spend the extra points for the bonding figure. An auto 4th OM can be done, but it should raise Smith's cost a significant amount - as if you had to buy another unit.

I agree that it would probably raise the cost of them by 33%. That would account for drafting another Agent Smith, but only getting to take 1 turn per round. Keep in mind, though, that's an additional 33% in cost as if they didn't have the bonding ability. I certainly don't think that's broken, but I can understand if PK wants to keep the cost down and thus add the D20 trigger. I do find the roll a bit odd thematically, though.

killercactus January 3rd, 2011 05:23 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Plus, bonding just gives a hero a turn. This would give a really powerful squad an extra turn. Plus, if Smiths army loses initiative, they'll get two straight turns, and maybe 3.

Taeblewalker January 3rd, 2011 06:34 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 1306207)
Plus, bonding just gives a hero a turn. This would give a really powerful squad an extra turn. Plus, if Smiths army loses initiative, they'll get two straight turns, and maybe 3.

Precisely my complaint.

Balantai January 3rd, 2011 06:42 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker (Post 1306273)
Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 1306207)
Plus, bonding just gives a hero a turn. This would give a really powerful squad an extra turn. Plus, if Smiths army loses initiative, they'll get two straight turns, and maybe 3.

Precisely my complaint.

You understand that this can still happen with the current version, correct?

Also, please note that I'm trying to argue to put this version (without the D20 roll) on the card. I just don't think it's as overpowered as everyone else thinks. :twisted:

Balantai January 3rd, 2011 06:47 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Just some ideas:

Unplugged
After revealing an Order Marker on any card you control, you may reveal the X Order Marker on this card and take a turn with Agent Smith instead.

or

Unplugged
After taking a turn with Agent Smith, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may take and additional turn with Agent Smith.

killercactus January 3rd, 2011 07:11 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Here's something that just came to me for Unplugged:

UNPLUGGED
You may not place Order Markers on Agent Smith. After your opponent takes a turn, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll X or higher, you may immediately take a turn with Agent Smith. Add 1 to your roll for each Agent Smith squad figure on the board.

This way, he operates completely independent from Order Markers, which truly feels like him being Unplugged to me. It can still allow for multiple turns in a row, but now Smith probably isn't going to be in great position to utilize those turns. With Stealth Dodge and Replication though, he still has great survivability. Since you can't move or position Smith at will, and also can't plan on when you're going to activate him, this should work to reduce his cost some, which I think would be good since we're looking at an expensive unit here. I really like how this makes it feel like Smith is just going crazy for his own purpose and doesn't really care about anything else. X = 18?

EDIT: If we don't want Smith to get a roll twice per opponent's OM for bonding (or a million times for Frenzy, or whatever), we could change it to "before you reveal a numbered Order Marker..."

Lamaclown January 3rd, 2011 07:39 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 1306293)
Here's something that just came to me for Unplugged:

UNPLUGGED
You may not place Order Markers on Agent Smith. After your opponent takes a turn, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll X or higher, you may immediately take a turn with Agent Smith. Add 1 to your roll for each Agent Smith squad figure on the board.

This way, he operates completely independent from Order Markers, which truly feels like him being Unplugged to me. It can still allow for multiple turns in a row, but now Smith probably isn't going to be in great position to utilize those turns. With Stealth Dodge and Replication though, he still has great survivability. Since you can't move or position Smith at will, and also can't plan on when you're going to activate him, this should work to reduce his cost some, which I think would be good since we're looking at an expensive unit here. I really like how this makes it feel like Smith is just going crazy for his own purpose and doesn't really care about anything else. X = 18?

EDIT: If we don't want Smith to get a roll twice per opponent's OM for bonding (or a million times for Frenzy, or whatever), we could change it to "before you reveal a numbered Order Marker..."

Very unique mechanic, KC! It truly is unplugged.

If we decide to go with this, we may need to reword it some for multi player games, otherwise Smith might get a plethora of turns per round (that would be really fun in a 4 or more player FFA :twisted:). Maybe "Before the game begins, choose an opponent. After that opponent takes a turn..."

Or we could use the 'Before you reveal a numbered OM..." That one seems cleaner and more simple anyway.

Taeblewalker January 3rd, 2011 08:30 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamaclown (Post 1306309)
Quote:

Originally Posted by killercactus (Post 1306293)
Here's something that just came to me for Unplugged:

UNPLUGGED
You may not place Order Markers on Agent Smith. After your opponent takes a turn, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll X or higher, you may immediately take a turn with Agent Smith. Add 1 to your roll for each Agent Smith squad figure on the board.

This way, he operates completely independent from Order Markers, which truly feels like him being Unplugged to me. It can still allow for multiple turns in a row, but now Smith probably isn't going to be in great position to utilize those turns. With Stealth Dodge and Replication though, he still has great survivability. Since you can't move or position Smith at will, and also can't plan on when you're going to activate him, this should work to reduce his cost some, which I think would be good since we're looking at an expensive unit here. I really like how this makes it feel like Smith is just going crazy for his own purpose and doesn't really care about anything else. X = 18?

EDIT: If we don't want Smith to get a roll twice per opponent's OM for bonding (or a million times for Frenzy, or whatever), we could change it to "before you reveal a numbered Order Marker..."

Very unique mechanic, KC! It truly is unplugged.

If we decide to go with this, we may need to reword it some for multi player games, otherwise Smith might get a plethora of turns per round (that would be really fun in a 4 or more player FFA :twisted:). Maybe "Before the game begins, choose an opponent. After that opponent takes a turn..."

Or we could use the 'Before you reveal a numbered OM..." That one seems cleaner and more simple anyway.

Awesome! Great work, guys.

killercactus January 3rd, 2011 09:55 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
OK:

UNPLUGGED
You may not place Order Markers on Agent Smith. Before you reveal a numbered order marker, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may first take a turn with Agent Smith. Add 1 to your roll for each Agent Smith squad figure you control on the board.

I think this will work fine with either Replication version, though I prefer the Zombie-esque one.

Balantai January 4th, 2011 11:19 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Very unique mechanic, KC. What happens if Agent Smith is your last figure, though? Order Markers can't be placed on the card and thus, you never reveal a numbered order marker.

It almost has to reference a specific opponent.

killercactus January 4th, 2011 11:54 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balantai (Post 1306659)
Very unique mechanic, KC. What happens if Agent Smith is your last figure, though? Order Markers can't be placed on the card and thus, you never reveal a numbered order marker.

It almost has to reference a specific opponent.

Good call. I forgot to change that since I went to the numbered order marker mechanic. How about this:

UNPLUGGED
Before you reveal a numbered order marker, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may first take a turn with Agent Smith. Add 1 to your roll for each Agent Smith squad figure you control on the board. When you reveal a numbered order marker on Agent Smith, immediately end your turn.

This should allow you to place and reveal order markers on Smith, but not allow you to take turns when you do. That way, if he's the last figure on the board, you can place order markers on him - you just might not get his turn.

Taeblewalker January 4th, 2011 12:21 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
It works flawlessly. It just seems a little head-scratchy for anyone reading the card without seeing all the discussion that led up to this exact wording.

You could say that you may only place order markers on this army card if you do not control any figures on the battlefield from any other army card. This allows you to take normal turns with Agent Smith if his is the only card left. It could be a separate power called: THE ONE


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