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-   -   Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=31300)

Dysole June 13th, 2015 10:37 PM

Thoughts
 
I like the blue version of By the Gods. Red versions of the others. 300 is a nice fun number that even ties back to Greek mythos. (Sparta story isn't exactly mythos but it evokes that feel)

~Dysole, briefly

Confred June 13th, 2015 11:33 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
@Dysole I guesstimated him at 295. 300 as a Spartan Warrior is a fun reference. I can dig the 5pts.

Dysole June 13th, 2015 11:39 PM

Kewl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2027776)
@Dysole I guesstimated him at 295. 300 as a Spartan Warrior is a fun reference. I can dig the 5pts.

Also, pretty much every time I come back to this thread
keeps coming into my head so yeah.

~Dysole, a tad obsessed with that series

Confred June 14th, 2015 03:35 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TREX
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS
After making a normal or special attack, if Kratos rolled at least 2 skulls, he may attack again with a normal or special attack. Kratos cannot attack more than 4 times per turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS
If Kratos attacks with a normal or special attack and rolls at least 2 skulls, Kratos he may continue attacking with normal or special attacks until he does not roll at least 2 skulls. Kratos may attack up to 4 times this turn.

1) "After making attack" vs "If attacking": My "if" came from an outdated Deathewalker 8000. Yours was molded after the more recent Frost Giant Of Morh. Let's look at all the newest figures:
Battle Frenzy: After attacking with _, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an X or higher, you may attack again with _.
Double Assault: When _ attacks, he may attack one additional time.
Crag Of Steel: When _ attacks while XYZ is active, he may attack any or all figures adjacent to him.
Mortal Strike: After attacking an opponent's Unique Hero with _'s normal attack, roll 1 attack die for each wound inflicted in that attack.
Double Attack(Ogre Pulverizer): When _ attacks, it may attack one additional time.
Poison Cloud: When _ attacks a Common Figure, add 1 to its Attack value.
Venomous Sting: When rolling attack dice, if _ rolls a skull on every die, the defending figure cannot roll any defense dice.
Blood Frenzy: When attacking with _, it receives 1 extra attack die for each wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card to a maximum of 3 additional attack dice for Blood Frenzy.
Hydra Heads: When _ attacks, it may attack up to 4 times. Reduce the number of times _ can attack by 1 for each wound marker on this Army Card.
Battleaxe: If _ is attacking a small or medium figure, add 2 dice to _'s attack.
Shocking Grasp (Relevant to Cestus): When rolling attack dice for a normal attack, _ always adds 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled.
Sky Watcher: If _ is attacking a non-adjacent figure that has the Flying or Stealth Flying special power, add 2 dice to _'s attack.
Archer's Glory (Relevant to By The Gods): Each time _ destroys an opponent's non-adjacent Unique Hero, you may take another turn with _.

Commentary after the break.

2) "may attack again" vs "may continue attacking"

Commentary after the break

3) "cannot attack more than 4 times per turn." vs "may attack up to 4 times this turn

Commentary after the break

Confred June 15th, 2015 07:10 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred (Post 2027865)
1) "After making attack" vs "If attacking": ...
examples of attack powers of 13 most recent official figures

Spoiler Alert!



Result: Key differences underlined for your convenience:
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (A) x4
When Kratos attacks, if he rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time. Kratos may continue attacking until he doesn’t roll at least two skulls to a maximum of three additional times.
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (B) x2
When rolling attack dice for a normal or special attack, if Kratos rolls at least two skulls, Kratos may attack one additional time with a normal or special attack. Kratos may continue attacking with normal or special attacks until he doesn’t roll at least two skulls to a maximum of three additional times.
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (C) x2
If Kratos is attacking and rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time. Kratos may continue attacking until he doesn’t roll at least two skulls to a maximum of three additional times.
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (D) x2
After attacking with Kratos’ normal or special attack, if he rolled at least two skulls, you may attack again with Kratos’ normal or special attack. You may continue attacking with Kratos’ normal or special attacks until he doesn’t roll at least two skulls to a maximum of 4 times.
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (E) X1
Each time Kratos attacks, if he rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time to a maximum of three additional times.
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (F) X1
When attacking with Kratos, if Kratos rolls at least two skulls, you may attack one additional time with Kratos. You may continue attacking with Kratos until he doesn’t roll at least two skulls to a maximum of three additional times.
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (G) X1
When Kratos attacks, he may attack up to 4 times. Reduce the number of times Kratos can attack by 1 each time he rolls fewer than two skulls.

CUSTOM TECH TALK
Figures roll attack dice.
Players roll 20-sided dice.

While VOK (A) has the most hits and would be an acceptable choice, I appreciate (E)'s use of fewer words and prefer (E) more for it.
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS
Each time Kratos attacks, if he rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time to a maximum of three additional times.

VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (E2)
Each time Kratos attacks, if he rolls two skulls or more, he may attack one additional time to a maximum of three additional times.

VENGEANCE OF KRATOS (E3)
Each time Kratos attacks, if he rolls more than one skull, he may attack one additional time to a maximum of three additional times.
Spoiler Alert!

Confred June 16th, 2015 03:17 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS took a lot of time, but it was worth it, what interesting turns

Moving on to BLADES OF EXILE
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trex
BLADES OF EXILE
If an opponent's figure is within 3 spaces of Kratos, and its base is no more than 4 levels above Kratos's height or 4 levels below Kratos's base, Kratos may add 3 to his Range when attacking that figure with a normal attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confred
BLADES OF EXILE
If an opponent's figure is within 3 spaces of Kratos, and its base is no more than 4 levels above Kratos's height or 4 levels below Kratos's base, Kratos may add 2 to his Range when attacking that figure with a normal attack. Blades Of Exile cannot be negated by any special power on any Army Card, Glyph, or terrain.

There are two things different. The biggest difference is that my version cannot be negated. I believe it was @Dysole that said "Blades Of Exile cannot be negated" was too streamlined so I added the bit about "by special powers..." The idea is that the Blades remain with Kratos even throughout Exile and sticky situations that remove other powers such as negation. Seeing your version didn't have this, I recall a member saying that the added complexity is too much for an already complex figure. I can relent to remove the controversial line.
The final difference is the number added to Kratos' Range value if opponent's figures are nearby but not adjacent. @TREX underlined the number in question. Mine says 2 his says 3. His 3 was left over from my original wording where the special power had a Range of 4. It has since been reduced to 3 spaces, meaning the number drops to adding 2 as in my version. Base 1+X=3; X=2.

BLADES OF EXILE
If an opponent's figure is within 3 spaces of Kratos, and its base is no more than 4 levels above Kratos's height or 4 levels below Kratos's base, Kratos may add 2 to his Range when attacking that figure with a normal attack.

Dysole June 16th, 2015 03:43 PM

Scratch
 
Don't see how terrain can negate Blades of Exile. Otherwise if we include the line, we'll need Gladiatron wording. I don't like it but with that wording it's harder to fight it. Range 3 Reach means we need a 2 instead of a 3 yeah.

~Dysole, pretty sure we're close to done here

TREX June 16th, 2015 06:22 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

BY THE GODS
Every time Kratos destroys an opponent’s Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact Glyph on this card. Kratos cannot drop Godly Artifacts during his movement. By The Gods can place a maximum of 5 Glyphs on this card.


Quote:

VENGEANCE OF KRATOS
Each time Kratos attacks, if he rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time to a maximum of three additional times.
Quote:

BLADES OF EXILE
If an opponent's figure is within 3 spaces of Kratos, and its base is no more than 4 levels above Kratos's height or 4 levels below Kratos's base, Kratos may add +2 to his Range when attacking that figure with a normal attack.
Quote:

CLIMB FROM TARTARUS
At the start of each of your turns after Kratos has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 18 or higher, immediately place Kratos on an empty space on the battlefield that is not higher than the base of any other figure on the battlefield. If Kratos is destroyed and there are no other figures you control left on the Battlefield you may immediately roll for Climb From Tartarus.
This looks good, but should it be clear sight spaces on Blades of Exile. You wouldn't want kratos to attack through walls would you. I agree with your other Otherwise it looks good. The wording is pretty much the same on Climb from Tartarus with the exception on when you roll for it. I very much prefer that it gets rolled at the start of your next turn that way. (With the exception of rolling it immediately if he's the last one standing on your team.) I like your other green versions as well. Does this look good all. I updated the green versions that you have came up with @Confred . Great job on those, they turned out very well.

McHotcakes June 16th, 2015 06:31 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TREX (Post 2028319)
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS
Each time Kratos attacks, if he rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time to a maximum of three additional times.

Did we want to specify that this works with both normal and special attacks?

Other than that I think Kratos is looking good. Now where are we at with the Godly Treasure Glyphs?

Dysole June 16th, 2015 06:38 PM

Special Eyes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McHotcakes (Post 2028322)
Quote:

Originally Posted by TREX (Post 2028319)
VENGEANCE OF KRATOS
Each time Kratos attacks, if he rolls at least two skulls, he may attack one additional time to a maximum of three additional times.

Did we want to specify that this works with both normal and special attacks?

Other than that I think Kratos is looking good. Now where are we at with the Godly Treasure Glyphs?

No other figure is capable of switching between normal or special attacks. Given however that Warforged Resolve and Cell Divide specifically call out "normal or special attack", I think it is a good call.

Confred June 16th, 2015 11:41 PM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Currently, Blades Of Exile is just Reach 2. The wording is exactly the same except +2 vs +1. The reason why clear sight isn't needed is because normal combat rules still apply. He cannot attack nonadjacent figures when engaged for example.

I was thinking of yet another variation to play with for By The Gods to utilize the official "to a maximum of" phrasing to cut word use.
Quote:

BY THE GODS
Every time Kratos destroys an opponent’s Unique Hero, place a Godly Artifact Glyph on this card to a maximum of five Glyphs this game. Kratos cannot drop Godly Artifacts.
@TREX I noticed your version didn't specify if the Glyphs needed to be different. Did we decide the extra complexity wasn't wanted (I'm cool either way, just doing due diligence on oversight)
@McHotcakes I'm fine either way on it as I can see both arguments.

TREX June 17th, 2015 12:51 AM

Re: Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread
 
Ok, I just updated my previous post to reflect the latest concerns. I changed the By the Gods to your newest version @Confred . It looks the same with less text. The only concern is how it is written, people may be confused about dropping the glyphs when he dies and goes to tartarus.


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