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Elginb's Alternative Unit Pricing

Posted April 21st, 2011 at 11:18 AM by Elginb
Updated April 22nd, 2011 at 01:38 PM by Elginb
The whole Legacy thing got me thinking about how I personally would price all the Heroscape units. This isn't a new thing-- I've been pondering this for years. But I've been really working to figure out a good system for determining the proper point values over the last few weeks.


As far as a system, I pretty much failed-- no system or formula I put together came up with anything like I imagined was correct, so I decided to do it in a more intuitive way. I started by making random piles containing 10 army cards each, then ordered them as I imagined their value to be. Then I started merging the 10 card piles into 20 card piles, each time adjusting value as I saw fit. Eventually, I got all the cards put together-- the list below is pretty much what I think the real value of each unit is.


I've been playing Heroscape a long time, mostly with friends or by myself, but I've been to some tournaments. And unlike some HS fans, I actually play all the HS units fairly regularly (in my Lazy Laundry Tournaments, for instance). I also play on a wide variety of maps and different formats. I don't know if I have any special insight, but that's the perspective I'm working with.


Anyway, here's my list:



Thanos 300 - Marvel units seem to be priced more against each other than most HS units. Most of them simply aren't as powerful against squads. Thanos and the Silver Surfer are still pretty strong against Classic 'Scape at full price, but if units like the Hulk and Abomination are lowered, then Thanos and the Silver Surfer can be, too.
Silver Surfer 275
Hulk 250
Abomination 220 - There aren't a lot of anti-hero units better than the Abomination or Hulk, but their anti-squad talents are lacking. Having to become engaged limits their movement and opens them up to being mowed down from range. Against squad-scape, I'd probably rather have Cap or Tor-Kul-Na, who can devastate squads and heroes. Still, if you have a big hero lynch-pin like Cap or Tor-Kul-Na, the Hulk or the Abomination are awfully good counters.
Captain America 220
Tor-Kul-Na 220
Braxas 210
Major Q9 200- with the Deathreavers 65 points and Raelin ROTV at 100 points, you can still get Q9+Raelin+3xDeathreavers for 495 points... sounds about right to me.
Nilfheim 185
Charos 180 - Charos is tough, but still too passive aggressive and melee oriented to be top of the pops. His durability outclasses Moltenclaw, but otherwise he'd be a 4th choice dragon.
Iron Man 180
Jotun 180 - One of the most dangerous melee units, but still a big freakin' target without any sort of bonding. Really just a small step up from Shurrak, and I've priced him as such.
Moltenclaw 170
Cyprien 160 -
Shurrak 160
Spartacus 160
Zelrig 160 - Explosive attacks are over-valued point-wise, I think. There's just not enough incentive to clump your figures together. Zelrig is best of them all because he can blitz your start zone, but only if you're using a swarm. Otherwise, he's just a long-distance special attack. Nice, but not 185 points nice.
Dr. Doom 155
Kato 150
Major Q10 150 - Major Q10 is one of the most correctly priced units IMO and I used him as a baseline for re-pricing units.
Sgt. Drake (SOTM) 150 - Drake, Spider-man and Venom all play like different sides of the same 3-sided coin, and I priced them accordingly.
Spider-man 150
Venom 150
Warhulk 150
Eltahale 140
Othkurik 140
Sujoah 135
Mimring 130
Su-Bak-Na 125 - Fragile, fragile, fragile... but great support powers. Sort of like Agent Carr if he boosted somebody.
Airborne Elite 120
Grimnak 120
Hive 120
Hydra 120
Kaemon Awa 120
Krug 120 - Krug is just about perfectly priced as is, IMO, so I used him as one of the base-lines for my re-pricing.
Kurrok 120
Minions 120 - Best kyrie unit
Mogrimm 120
Red Skull 120 - I think Kurrok, Red Skull and Ulginesh all match up about the same against one another.
Siege 120
Sonlen 120 - It just seemed like he was about equal to Kaemon Awa. Sonlen's mutltiple attacks don't go off as consistently, but Sonlen has more life and gets more chances because of it.
Tul-Bak-Ra 120
Ulginesh 120
Agent Skahen 110 - she's not really 20 points better than the Krav Maga, but she is really good. I put her on equal footing with those agents in my re-pricing.
Evar 110
Frost Giant 110 - not great against squads.
Imperium 110
Krav Maga 110
Laglor 110
Migol 110
Mika 110
MotH 110
Protectors 110
Sentinels 110
Sir Gilbert 110 - best human champion
Taelord 110 - Laglor vs. Taelord? Laglor has more life and a special attack, whereas Taelord has a better boost-- it seemed like the trade-offs made them equals.
Tagawa Samurai 110
Werewolf Lord 110
Alastair 100
Ana Karithon 100
GIE 100
Marcus 100
Morsbane 100
Nakitas 100 - their vulnerability to special attacks is just too big a weakness to ignore.
Pulverizer 100
Raelin (ROTV) 100
Raelin (SOTM) 100
Sgt. Drake (ROTV) 100
Sir Dupuis 100 - No bonding? Strike 50 points!
Templars 100 - Really only slightly better than Deathstalkers, right?
Torin 100
Tornak 100
Venoc Warlord 100
Wo-Sa-Ga 100
Wyvern 100
Tandros 95
Valguard 95
Acolarh 90
Agent Carr 90
Atlaga 90
Brunak 90
Crixus 90
Deathstalkers 90 - maybe I'm just a big fan of the Marrden Hounds, but the anti-hero power of the robo-dogs doesn't seem to me to make them better than the Hounds' anti-squad powers.
Feral Troll 90
Groks 90
Heirloom 90
Iron Golem 90
Kee-Mo-Shi 90
Kiova 90
Kozuke 90
Marrden Hounds 90
Ne-Gok-Sa 90
Ninjas 90
Ornak 90
Quasatch 90
Rhogar 90
Sharwin 90
Sir Hawthorne 90
Syvarris 90
DW9000 85 - I felt like the Deathwalkers should be priced around the same level as Warden 816 (who I dropped to 75 points). The Deathwalkers are better only because they have anti-squad special attacks. The range boost puts 9000 above 8000.
Ice Troll 85
10th Reg 80 - There were a lot of 70 point units that seem like they should've been 80 points and vice versa. There were just too many great units at 70 points.
4th Mass 80
Axegrinders 80
DW8000 80
EOV 80
Granite Guardians 80
Heavy Gruts 80
KoW 80
Major X17 80
Microcorps 80 - As 3 figure squads, they simply can't be priced higher than 4th Mass or 10th Reg, but I think they're about equal.
Mind Flayer 80
Runa 80
Shades 80
Snipers 80
Sudema 80
Brutes 75
Capuans 75
Retiarius 75
Warden 816 75
Anubians 70
Aubriens 70
Blastatrons 70 - I've always felt the Blastatrons were what made the BlastaGlad combo work, but they're still not uber-powerful on their own, so I gave them and the Glads the same price.
Brandis 70
Brave Arrow 70
Dund 70
Emirroon 70
Estivara 70
Finn 70
Gladiatrons 70
Gorillinators 70
Hatamoto Taro 70 - It seemed to me that Hatamoto's value to the samurai army was about the same as either Finn or Thorgrim's value to the Knight army.
James Murphy 70
Mezzodemons 70
Mohicans 70
Moriko 70
Parmenio 70 - not really better than Thorgrim, IMO
Pelloth 70
Phantoms 70
Stingers 70
Thorgrim 70
Warforged 70
WoB 70
Concan 65
Death Chasers 65
Deathreavers 65
Sir Denrick 65 - my test case was Darrak-- why should Sir Denrick cost more than the dwarf? Both bond, but Darrak has a much better chance of using his 6 attack. Denrick is a little more durable, but they bring something similar to the party.
Chardris 60
Darrak 60
Erevan 60
Goblins 60
Greenscales 60
Gurei Oni 60
Harquebus 60
Izumi 60
Jorhdawn 60
Kelda 60
Kumiko 60
Marro Warriors 60
Monks 60
Saylind 60
Shotgun Sullivan 60
Zetacron 60
Zombies 60
Arkmer 50
Armocs 50 - I still bet a swarm of Venoc Vipers would beat a swarm of Armocs, but they do better against other types of units... and they bond!
Dividers 50
Drow 50
DW7000 50
Dzu-teh 50
Iskra 50
Legionnaires 50
MacDirks 50 - the Legionaires are just as likely to get their boost from Marcus as they the McDirks are from their human champion. Breaking like glass loses them a lot of points.
Me-Burq-Sa 50
Nerak 50
Obsidians 50 - 3 figure squad, no boding, really slow, but kind of tough = 50 points.
Rechets 50
Tagawa Archers 50
Death Knights 45
Drones 45
Sacred Band 45
Sonya 45
WoA 45
Arrow Gruts 40 - Both the Blade Gruts and Arrow Gruts seem properly priced to me, and I used them as one of my baselines for figuring out alternative prices.
Blade Gruts 40
DED 40
Roman Archers 40
Shiori 40
Tarn 40
Theracus 40
Venocs 40
Zettians 40 -
Black Wyrm 35
Drudge 35
Fire 35
Khosumet 35 - being so fragile, he seems like an Eldgrim level bonded hero or support figure.
Air 30
Blue Wyrm 30
Earth 30
Eldgrim 30
Guilty 30
Nagrubs 30
Red Wyrm 30
Repulsors 30
Spiders 30
Water 30
White Wyrm 30
Chainfighter 25
Marcu 25
Swog 25
Dumutef 20
Isamu 20
Otonashi 15
Kyntela 10
Sahuagin Raider 10
Total Comments 8

Comments

Old
quozl's Avatar
A cheaper Silver Surfer? I'm going into shock!

Would you mind giving a little explanation for each of your changes?
Posted April 21st, 2011 at 01:18 PM by quozl quozl is offline
Old
kolakoski's Avatar
Well met!

Why did you score some figures?
Posted April 21st, 2011 at 01:31 PM by kolakoski kolakoski is offline
Old
Sylvano the Wasabus's Avatar
Looks good. I'm going to half to try that system.
Posted April 21st, 2011 at 03:26 PM by Sylvano the Wasabus Sylvano the Wasabus is offline
Old
Quote:
Why did you score some figures?
Quote:
Would you mind giving a little explanation for each of your changes?
I think I changed the prices for at least half of the units, but if there are particular units you want to ask about, I can tell you why I changed those prices. It's hard for me to give a simple explanation, because I wasn't working with a particular formula... just experience and intuition.

Quote:
A cheaper Silver Surfer? I'm going into shock!
The Silver Surfer is cheaper, but so are his Marvel counters, Thanos and Hulk. Braxas will always be a top notch counter for any of the Marvel heroes, even if they're a little cheaper than before. There are still also lots of great cheap common ranged squads to take out the Surfer. I love the Surfer, but I don't think he's overpowered here.
Posted April 21st, 2011 at 04:40 PM by Elginb Elginb is offline
Old
Okay, I'll do some explanations, but slowly. Keep checking back if you're interested...
Posted April 21st, 2011 at 06:36 PM by Elginb Elginb is offline
Old
I Hate Atlaga's Avatar
4x Snipers 320
Raelin ROTV 420
2x Repulsors 480
Isamu 500
Sounds like my personal army!
Posted April 24th, 2011 at 03:55 PM by I Hate Atlaga I Hate Atlaga is offline
Old
You can get a pretty reasonably priced Elf Wizard Team now, too!

Ulginesh 120
Acolarh 90
Emirroon 70
Jorhdawn 60
Chardris 60
Arkmer 50
Kyntela 10
Total = 460 points
Posted April 25th, 2011 at 03:10 PM by Elginb Elginb is offline
Old
Red Skull armies are more fun now, too!

Red Skull - 120
Moriko - 70
James Murphy - 70
Kumiko - 60
Shotgun Sullivan - 60
DED - 40
Shiori - 40
Guilty - 30
Otonashi - 15
Total = 505 pts

I think the Ninjas and Cowboys could really work together like this.
Posted April 29th, 2011 at 06:05 PM by Elginb Elginb is offline
 
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